Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

Saying Skaven and FEC are here to stay is the same as saying that Elfs and Dorfs are here to stay - at a high level, sure. But it's going to be the extreme fantasy of Rat Ogres, WLCs and so forth, not Skaven Slaves and Assassins going forward.

Difference is that we now have Skaven and FEC battletomes whereas there are no explicit "Elf" or "Dwarf" tome.

FEC is a small faction so it is weird to call them high-level. If they were to remove a single box set from them it would devastate what is left of the line.

With Skaven the models are going to exist if they are in the battletome. So no Execute Order 66 unless that battletome ends up being rather empty.

Wouldn't be surprised if we'll see more consolidation in the future.

At a high level, FEC appears to be at least as diverse as anything back in WFB 5E. Of course with many GW boxed-sets being 2-in-1s, it's much harder to remove things.

If you look at Carrion Empire, there are non Clanrats, no Skaven Slaves. Just Rat Ogres and WLCs - the extreme fantasy elements stay, where the mundane is Squatted.

As above, it's a given that the generic fantasy is going away. And having a rulebook only gets you a year or two safety. Come 2021, GW could kill FEC and/or Skaven entirely.

It would be quite stupid of them to do so after making new minis and books, so I’d bet against it.

As a Dogs of War player, I stand by my statement because that's exactly what GW has done in the past. How long was Kirby at the helm, again?

As a Dogs of War player, I stand by my statement because that's exactly what GW has done in the past. How long was Kirby at the helm, again?

I wouldn't say a single data point like Dogs of War is a good metric, especially since it was phased out in 6th edition. We are talking about nearly twenty years of time has passed and several changes of direction at the company. I get it, GW hurt you, and I would probably be pissed too if it happened to me.

I would argue that a battletome means the line is relatively safe. Relatively in this case meaning that the units will stay whether in one tome or joining another. Ultimately though it is about sales and demand. If there is demand for something like the dark elf line and the model keep selling then we'll see them appear in a tome. If they don't sell and they are just losing money on keeping stock they will be removed.

I would argue that Skaven are perhaps the safest in the range being very unique creations - predating to my knowledge anything similar (esp nature, speech and culture) and having little equivalent in world mythology.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I would argue that Skaven are perhaps the safest in the range being very unique creations - predating to my knowledge anything similar (esp nature, speech and culture) and having little equivalent in world mythology.

If that’s how GW are thinking, it may be so.

Rats have been in myth a bit, more obscure to be sure but I would think shaven are a fairly unique in the way they are. But does it sell, I would hope so. But they do resemble a bit of the 50s sci fi horror, as rats :p
I like shaven and there are some things I would really wish they would do with the he line and the race from a narrative place. They have(had) some great points in the history of fantasy.

I think one of the best things about the Skaven is that there are no "good" Skaven - they are all simply awful rat-people.

long may they stay that way

Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.


So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Of course Redwall had rats in it, what do you think Cluny the Scourge is

 Overread wrote:
Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.


So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Redwall does seem to have rats in it
I was thinking more unique in there feel, rather than truly something That no one has done before.
NIMH is dark, but the rats are Just rats in that i think. So i had original Forgot about them before as they may not fit entirely.

But It is kinda weird, GW Just does not seem to like fur much on some skaven models.

Apple fox wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.


So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Redwall does seem to have rats in it
I was thinking more unique in there feel, rather than truly something That no one has done before.
NIMH is dark, but the rats are Just rats in that i think. So i had original Forgot about them before as they may not fit entirely.

But It is kinda weird, GW Just does not seem to like fur much on some skaven models.

True, but then there are the medeival rats in Redwall interacting with similarly-sized creatures with the normal-sized rats of NIMH interacting with humanity that is beyond giant-sized to them.

 Overread wrote:
Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.

So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Redwall is quite a long time after Skaven - they are way back in mid 1980's - a few years after the Rats of NIMH although I think the latter are normal sized animals?

NIMH are certianly normal sized, but in the animation they are very human styled in upright poses and heavy use of electrical toys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cISmv0IGoQQ

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.

So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Redwall is quite a long time after Skaven - they are way back in mid 1980's - a few years after the Rats of NIMH although I think the latter are normal sized animals?

Well wikipedia tells me that the first Redwall book came out in 1986 so not that much different.

We are clutching at straws though, the Skaven are a really unique take on a society of anthropomorphic rats anyway you look at them!

From the new LVO previews.

Some brand-new armies will be joining the fray, as well as classic armies updated for the new edition.

 Eldarsif wrote:
From the new LVO previews.

Some brand-new armies will be joining the fray, as well as classic armies updated for the new edition.

I assume the new armies will include at least one of the Ulgu/Hyish aelves that Malerion and Tyrion/Teclis made respectively. I wouldn't be surprised to see an overhaul of Devoted of Sigmar either given the recent artwork from Soul Wars.

Although just a rumor at this point there is a mention about the Age of Sigmar Warcry in the Rumor section and there is a post about two aelf factions that are based off the old High-Elf and Dark Elf factions. Of course only time will tell whether that pans out.

It's a 4chan rumor (though plausible), so consult your doctor before taking the amount of salt such a rumor requires.

High Elfs and Dark Elfs are both overdue for a major revamp that remove anything that would be in LotR.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
High Elfs and Dark Elfs are both overdue for a major revamp that remove anything that would be in LotR.

So basically their entire identity?

Noticed that Greenskinz is no more on the Games Workshop website. Did some looking around and didn't find any units.

Are they getting a remake or they're gone for good? GW is giving people the run around on farcebook.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
High Elfs and Dark Elfs are both overdue for a major revamp that remove anything that would be in LotR.

Does this mean GW has to remove the giant spiders and spider riders from Gloomspite gits?
And the Ents from Sylvanath

 Just Tony wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
High Elfs and Dark Elfs are both overdue for a major revamp that remove anything that would be in LotR.

So basically their entire identity?

What identity? Generic Elfs with swords and spears and bows and halberds? Eh.

Batwinged snake girls? Underwater elfs?? That's better.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
High Elfs and Dark Elfs are both overdue for a major revamp that remove anything that would be in LotR.

So basically their entire identity?

What identity? Generic Elfs with swords and spears and bows and halberds? Eh.

Eagles, dragons, sky chariots, pheonix and lets not forget lion chariots and powerful mages!


Or mult-headed hydras, blood cults, more mages and deadly lizards!

It's hard to find Elven races that DON'T lean on Tolkein tropes, that's the problem. Once you start getting away from that, they stop being Elves and start being something else.

If it weren't for the skin color of Daughters of Khaine they would be very much the same as the DnD Drow.

 Just Tony wrote:
It's hard to find Elven races that DON'T lean on Tolkein tropes, that's the problem.

Once you start getting away from that, they stop being Elves and start being something else.

That's why they're getting those parts Squatted.

Yeah, Eldar.

But they are leaving in the Goblins right - with their giant spiders and spider riders right. And the orks they are staying too right; with their warlike mannerisms?


Just seems you dislike Aelves/elves and want them gone and keep projecting that onto AoS when GW hasn't given us any real sign that they will "get rid" of them entirely. In fact the Lore in most of the books they've published directly supports the notion that Aelves are 100% remaining in the setting without question adn that they will be more than just Daughters of Khaine and Angelic/demonic aelves.

They are leaving the Spider Goblins and Squig Goblins, which are different from generic Spiders and generic LotR Goblins. No generic Goblins from here out, because these are Mangler Squigs are made of pure AWESOME!

The Orks won't be generic Orks / LotR Uruks, no, not when GW is done with them. I think there's a lot more to come that builds upon the heavy armor Orks as the feral greenskinned counterpoint to Sigmarines.

Same with Ogres being MEGA CAVALRY - that's pretty cool, and way better than big fat mustache men - they're a dead line. But the beast stuff will stay on.

And no, I don't dislike Elves of any flavor. That is you reading something that isn't there at all. I like the Welfs and so forth, and have quite a fair number of Delfs "count as" Dogs of War. I will admit to a bit of Schadenfreude of watching people like you react when your armies are going to get what my Dogs of War got after the Chaos Dorfs. It's deserved Karma coming back threefold.

Just Tony wrote:It's hard to find Elven races that DON'T lean on Tolkein tropes, that's the problem. Once you start getting away from that, they stop being Elves and start being something else.

Eldarsif wrote:If it weren't for the skin color of Daughters of Khaine they would be very much the same as the DnD Drow.

Except that they are not described with their exact outfits to match those seen in Warhammer models. As such, those aspects that are not minimal, such as crowns, weapon designs and hair styles in the case of the Daughters, are copyrightable... depending on your court.

Whatever happens with the elvess, I hope there's just some clarity. I love shiny classic style elves and if there was a new release or some certainty that the old ones are staying put, I'd be all over them.

Have only collected Death (of one flavour or another) since AoS dropped and would love the chance of another force.

 Overread wrote:
Skaven are unique provided no one remembers Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH from the 1970s book and the 1980s animation (which really strongly reminds me of grey seers and rat technology we see in skaven).

Also leaving out any anthropomorphic series like Redwall which I bet had rats in it.


So they are unique sorta kinda maybe not Whatever they are they are certainly an 80s inspired creation and long may the rats remain - though darn it GW stop shaving them!

Anthro rats is not the same as Skaven though, I wouldn't say NIMH 'did it first' in terms of Skaven at all. The only similarity is intelligence. Size, morphology, attitude, scale, everything other than 'smart rat' is totally different. Ditto for Redwall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I think one of the best things about the Skaven is that there are no "good" Skaven - they are all simply awful rat-people.

long may they stay that way

I also like how they have saved the world from Nagash, twice.