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 Knight wrote:
I have to ask, what do you people want in your fantasy story?

Space ships and lasers.

 Knight wrote:
I have to ask, what do you people want in your fantasy story?

I like where GW has taken AoS' models, but I believe that pseudo-Ren humans are desirable to ground the setting. Basic ordinary humans are important to set a baseline, and a combination of magic and tech makes them playable. Everything else exists largely as contrast, so make them good contrasts.

I still dislike where GW has taken AoS' background. The new universe is not compelling at all.

I think the malign portents short stories did wonders in this regard. Also the realms are more high magic so the extraordinary is more ordinary.

That's an approach I like for a game setting, I also use it in my dnd campaign setting. It's meant mostly for higher level play but in order to keep the world from breaking power is just cranked up. Same is true for AoS. Almost no matter what concept the designers come up with for a miniature range can be easily made to fit the mortal realms.

IMHO internal consistency in a a setting is more important than grounding it vs the real world.

And why hasn't GW released the Malign Portents stories as a single free ebook! All they'd need to do is gather up the various short stories in a single document and make it downloadable!

I can definitely see the point in keeping regular humans as mostly normal and not that fantastical.

I kind of feel the same way about Greenskinz. The identity of Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz seems to me to be in large part defined by how they are different from regular orruks, so it kind of leads to a weird situation IMO when there are no longer baseline orruks in the game.

I've got hundreds of Greenskinz models and quite a few Gitmob. I'm not all that angry that they seem to be getting cut, but I am waiting to see what happens and weighing my options.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I can definitely see the point in keeping regular humans as mostly normal and not that fantastical.

I kind of feel the same way about Greenskinz. The identity of Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz seems to me to be in large part defined by how they are different from regular orruks, so it kind of leads to a weird situation IMO when there are no longer baseline orruks in the game.

I've got hundreds of Greenskinz models and quite a few Gitmob. I'm not all that angry that they seem to be getting cut, but I am waiting to see what happens and weighing my options.

Yep, absolutely. Same for the Duardin. Dispossessed are needed to compare Fyreslayers and Overlords to. ‘Baseline’ forces are needed to compare the others to.

I think the weirdest thing about Greenskinz going the way of the Dodo is that they were actively selling Start Collecting sets for some time indicating that they were supporting that faction. In short, they were incentivizing people to buy that line.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the weirdest thing about Greenskinz going the way of the Dodo is that they were actively selling Start Collecting sets for some time indicating that they were supporting that faction. In short, they were incentivizing people to buy that line.

They even had it in the recent skirmish splash page of products in White Dwarf. It is indeed odd and why its the most surprising pull of product they've done since Tomb Kings.

Sometimes I wonder if GW's addiction to avoiding spreading rumours sometimes causes their departments to end up operating without knowing enough of the long term plan to avoid situations like this. Perhaps what GW needs is a manager to better coordinate between departments if GW is dead set on keeping information compartmentalized.

Hence my point if an army is not in the general's handbook it's better not to touch them. The lines that are going to most likely be supported for sure are those armies with rules in the handbook.

Also Boar Boyz where """"new""" models, pretty cool. A real shame they are discontinued.

Aye. I grabbed the last Start Collecting that was in my local shop, mostly for the Boar Boyz and Boar Chariot.

 Knight wrote:
I have to ask, what do you people want in your fantasy story?

Allways a hard question, but I would say. Factions with a diverse identity that has the ability to create interesting conflicts both within the faction and external to the faction.
This extends to the battlefield, with the ability to create a unique but within theme army and characters.
As of now, I think AoS looks very samey with its new factions. With so many army’s just looking the same with new paint job.

For the setting itself, as high fantasy age of Sigmar is not very creative. With the new factions often being at best picking one thing and expanding on it.rather than creating what could be a living world.
It’s like they only want players to get excited about what you can buy now, than try and pull players into the setting as a whole. So if the design has no interest in what you do, then don’t even bother with it. With more kits being lost, I wonder if it’s the lack of interest from design that is pushing people away that would normal have an interest.

 Da Boss wrote:
Aye. I grabbed the last Start Collecting that was in my local shop, mostly for the Boar Boyz and Boar Chariot.

Needs some work, you get three different types of boar model, and none go together well with the others.
During my research into how to fix this, I saw a nice video on how to modernise the boar chariot:

 Knight wrote:
I have to ask, what do you people want in your fantasy story?

Sexy vampire girls - but heh maybe thats just me (stil waiting for cat girls in 40k - felenids are a thing)

The present AOS lines are really impressive - I can't really keep up - not money wise but making (geting someone else to paint) and storage wise!

Coupled with the increasingly diverse and interesting areas the novels are exploring as well as occassionaly droping back to the Old World adn Bloodbowl (just read the new anthology which is great) its a great time to pick and choose stuff from GW.

Then there are all the other manufactouers - I can buy such a varied range - recently picked up dwarf, orc and Elf pirates, Roman Orcs, RH Dark Elves and Sisters of Sigmar.

Not evencounting all my Mythic battles stuff which works fine in AOS.

happy days.

Whoop! Having a local store with horrible turnover rates on their GW stuff (stuff just sits around as I wonder who really even buys most of their stuff, and they also restock very slowly) finally paid off for a change, as I was able to snag a lone box of Clanrats for a project I REALLY needed them for and couldn't gamble on their situation at GW being a simple reboxing to have round bases.

Apple fox wrote:

 Knight wrote:
I have to ask, what do you people want in your fantasy story?

Always a hard question, but I would say. Factions with a diverse identity that has the ability to create interesting conflicts both within the faction and external to the faction.
This extends to the battlefield, with the ability to create a unique but within theme army and characters.

That's a good standard. Unfortunately, two armies have been stated to have been largely axed by GW even though they provide interesting conflicts both within and without of their faction.

Tomb Kings were always trying to relive their glory days and they HATED Nagash and his Vampires. Having a Dead army to be a counter-point to Nagash I find as interesting as having human mortals being a counter-point to Sigmar by siding with Chaos. That's not even considering the excellently inspired animated statues that they had.

Bretonnians are an excellent example of both of those being the most feudal nation in the Old World (the Chaos were tribes with no real national identity), and it's only because they were so busy in their borders they rarely bothered neighbors more than they did.

By relation to these two, the Sigmarines are quiescent and the Seraphon are downright comatose. It's too bad GW doesn't have the same standard. More than likely those two were simply behind in sales (the former being bit twice with Vampires making them seem over-costed and the latter not having an army book since 6th Edition).

 Charistoph wrote:



Tomb Kings were always trying to relive their glory days and they HATED Nagash and his Vampires. Having a Dead army to be a counter-point to Nagash I find as interesting as having human mortals being a counter-point to Sigmar by siding with Chaos. That's not even considering the excellently inspired animated statues that they had.

Bretonnians are an excellent example of both of those being the most feudal nation in the Old World (the Chaos were tribes with no real national identity), and it's only because they were so busy in their borders they rarely bothered neighbors more than they did.

Ok, I'm going to jump into this, because this was actually a wishlist/prediction I've made TGA forums, but one that a lot of people seemed to like...

FEC can do both these things:
- Nagash has no control on the mordants, they aren't undead... But he can exert control over abhorrents, being undead.
- Due to the hatred against Nagash for what he did to the crimson king, it seems some of these ghoul kings have broken ranks.
- Some of courts really do worship Nagash as their God.
- This faith in Nagash (and him telling the ghouls what to do, like the pope did in medieval time) can be a perfect counter to mundane power of the ghoul kings.


In short, they have a very complicated relationship with not all FEC falling in line. If they expand this faction with priests, bishops and other "faith based" archetypes typically found in medieval times, they could make a really cool faction out of them. If they turn them into a complete mockery of what a holy crusade must have been in feudal times, with a lot of powerstruggles between church (Nagash) and state (the rogue abhorrent vampire), it could tickle the needs of people wanting that sort of background.

The stuff they could produce if they went for this route:
- Crazed robed flagellant ghouls to march next to the regular ghouls
- A whole line of robed ghoul priests heroes, along with more prayer buffs.
- Archbishops carried around on bone palanquins carried by crypt horrors.
- Artillery by reintroducing bone structure catapults for sieges in crusades.
- An actual model for the crimson king.
- Ranged ghouls with hollowed out femurs as blowpipes, thinking themselves as archers.

 Charistoph wrote:
That's a good standard. Unfortunately, two armies have been stated to have been largely axed by GW even though they provide interesting conflicts both within and without of their faction.

Tomb Kings were always trying to relive their glory days and they HATED Nagash and his Vampires. Having a Dead army to be a counter-point to Nagash I find as interesting as having human mortals being a counter-point to Sigmar by siding with Chaos. That's not even considering the excellently inspired animated statues that they had.

Bretonnians are an excellent example of both of those being the most feudal nation in the Old World (the Chaos were tribes with no real national identity), and it's only because they were so busy in their borders they rarely bothered neighbors more than they did.

By relation to these two, the Sigmarines are quiescent and the Seraphon are downright comatose. It's too bad GW doesn't have the same standard. More than likely those two were simply behind in sales (the former being bit twice with Vampires making them seem over-costed and the latter not having an army book since 6th Edition).

You know, that sounds like the Tomb Kings would be under the Order banner in that situation.

What is the official relationship between the FEC and Nagash?

 Overread wrote:
You keep going on about how more unique models are more protected and I just don't see how. The only protection is the name. Otherwise the sculpt itself is copyright, but nothing stops anyone making an alternate sculpt of a heavily armoured human. Heck Stormcast are not evne that unique considering that Warmachine has been doing the hulking armour look for years.

Yep. Nothing in new models makes them impossible for others to produce alternatives. Question is more of is there enough DEMAND for anybody to bother with. If there's demand enough to make financially sensible there will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You say that 3rd parties are going to make the gamble - what 3rd party post-AoS stuff is out there?

And given Raging Heroes, how much new GW support existsnfir Slaanesh and Sisters?

Which tells that there isn't DEMAND for it. Aka the market isn't big enough for 3rd parties to bother with over say alternative 40k models. But if AOS becomes succesfull enough there will be 3rd party alternatives as well.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
That's a good standard. Unfortunately, two armies have been stated to have been largely axed by GW even though they provide interesting conflicts both within and without of their faction.

Tomb Kings were always trying to relive their glory days and they HATED Nagash and his Vampires. Having a Dead army to be a counter-point to Nagash I find as interesting as having human mortals being a counter-point to Sigmar by siding with Chaos. That's not even considering the excellently inspired animated statues that they had.

Bretonnians are an excellent example of both of those being the most feudal nation in the Old World (the Chaos were tribes with no real national identity), and it's only because they were so busy in their borders they rarely bothered neighbors more than they did.

By relation to these two, the Sigmarines are quiescent and the Seraphon are downright comatose. It's too bad GW doesn't have the same standard. More than likely those two were simply behind in sales (the former being bit twice with Vampires making them seem over-costed and the latter not having an army book since 6th Edition).

You know, that sounds like the Tomb Kings would be under the Order banner in that situation.

What is the official relationship between the FEC and Nagash?

Depends on the Court and the king - few if any serve Nagash out of choice, some courts have even sealed their lands against those who serve Nagash.

Some examples of the courts



There is apparently an Flesh Eater Courts Emperor model coming - which ties in with the rist of the Courts after the fall of the Lantic Empire.

A corrupted form of the Bretonnians is the Order of the Fly - a Nurgle serving Knightly order including the the Lady of Cankerwall: Bearer of the Flyblown Chalice,

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Fly

Tomb kings (and uqeens) pop in the narrative now and again,some serv Nagash or Mortarchs like Neferata, some are allied to one of more of the sane and some are against them.

We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

 Eldarsif wrote:
We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

Saying Skaven and FEC are here to stay is the same as saying that Elfs and Dorfs are here to stay - at a high level, sure. But it's going to be the extreme fantasy of Rat Ogres, WLCs and so forth, not Skaven Slaves and Assassins going forward.

What makes you say that?

I mean sure skaven slaves appear to be totally gone, though in general people never liked them all that much as models to start with (it didn't help that slaves remained in metal for YEARS whilst clan rats went plastic - that in itself spelled the doom of the slaves - even back in the glory days most ran clan rats as slaves purely from a cost perspective).

Assassins are also still very much in - just that its more likely they'll be a battalion choice or an additional choice rather than running a full army of their own models. Plus with them now in a single tome they could easily run mono just with a load of clan rats and other models drafted in from other clans.

Assassin rats are still very much in!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

Saying Skaven and FEC are here to stay is the same as saying that Elfs and Dorfs are here to stay - at a high level, sure. But it's going to be the extreme fantasy of Rat Ogres, WLCs and so forth, not Skaven Slaves and Assassins going forward.

Difference is that we now have Skaven and FEC battletomes whereas there are no explicit "Elf" or "Dwarf" tome.

FEC is a small faction so it is weird to call them high-level. If they were to remove a single box set from them it would devastate what is left of the line.

With Skaven the models are going to exist if they are in the battletome. So no Execute Order 66 unless that battletome ends up being rather empty.

Wouldn't be surprised if we'll see more consolidation in the future.

I just tried to pick up a box of Fantasy Ork Boyz on Ebay and they went for £35! (Obviously I stopped bidding before that)

Good profit on a list price of £18...

I have mixed feelings about the SC Greenskinz box, as I understand GW would want to move their old stock and they also might not have made up their minds on what they were going to do with the old Orcs & Goblins until recently. On the other hand it would be nice to have more communication on what to expect so that people can make better decisions on what to buy.

I've got a lot of Greenskinz, and purchased some new ones recently but them getting cut doesn't hit me that hard because most of mine are from my Orcs & Goblins WHFB army from ages ago or used models I picked up as part of collecting 40k orks. However, if I had been a kid just getting started having my entire faction yanked after spending all my Christmas money on Greenskinz might be enough to make me quit the hobby.

 Kroem wrote:
I just tried to pick up a box of Fantasy Ork Boyz on Ebay and they went for £35! (Obviously I stopped bidding before that)

Good profit on a list price of £18...

I'm wondering if we'll see a temporary jump in price as people panic about not being able to finish their collection, followed by a return to normal-ish prices as there are a bazillion fantasy orcs/orruks on the used market? Maybe NOS will always command a premium now?

Yea I don't see why they are so reluctant to communicate, a loose timeline for retiring models would at least stop people like me getting caught out!
It funny because I would say that behind a space marine, the greenskin style GW ork is probably their most iconic model... thats why it came as such a shock they would just bin the whole range.

Yea Im hoping that the prices do settle down in a while, and that the crustier Warbosses out there start letting da boyz wonder off.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

Saying Skaven and FEC are here to stay is the same as saying that Elfs and Dorfs are here to stay - at a high level, sure. But it's going to be the extreme fantasy of Rat Ogres, WLCs and so forth, not Skaven Slaves and Assassins going forward.

Difference is that we now have Skaven and FEC battletomes whereas there are no explicit "Elf" or "Dwarf" tome.

FEC is a small faction so it is weird to call them high-level. If they were to remove a single box set from them it would devastate what is left of the line.

With Skaven the models are going to exist if they are in the battletome. So no Execute Order 66 unless that battletome ends up being rather empty.

Wouldn't be surprised if we'll see more consolidation in the future.

At a high level, FEC appears to be at least as diverse as anything back in WFB 5E. Of course with many GW boxed-sets being 2-in-1s, it's much harder to remove things.

If you look at Carrion Empire, there are non Clanrats, no Skaven Slaves. Just Rat Ogres and WLCs - the extreme fantasy elements stay, where the mundane is Squatted.

As above, it's a given that the generic fantasy is going away. And having a rulebook only gets you a year or two safety. Come 2021, GW could kill FEC and/or Skaven entirely.

I for one am kinda pissed that I didn't get a chance to grab a box of fantasy boyz.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
We can at least agree that Skaven and Flesh-eaters are here to stay.

Saying Skaven and FEC are here to stay is the same as saying that Elfs and Dorfs are here to stay - at a high level, sure. But it's going to be the extreme fantasy of Rat Ogres, WLCs and so forth, not Skaven Slaves and Assassins going forward.

Difference is that we now have Skaven and FEC battletomes whereas there are no explicit "Elf" or "Dwarf" tome.

FEC is a small faction so it is weird to call them high-level. If they were to remove a single box set from them it would devastate what is left of the line.

With Skaven the models are going to exist if they are in the battletome. So no Execute Order 66 unless that battletome ends up being rather empty.

Wouldn't be surprised if we'll see more consolidation in the future.

At a high level, FEC appears to be at least as diverse as anything back in WFB 5E. Of course with many GW boxed-sets being 2-in-1s, it's much harder to remove things.

If you look at Carrion Empire, there are non Clanrats, no Skaven Slaves. Just Rat Ogres and WLCs - the extreme fantasy elements stay, where the mundane is Squatted.

As above, it's a given that the generic fantasy is going away. And having a rulebook only gets you a year or two safety. Come 2021, GW could kill FEC and/or Skaven entirely.

It would be quite stupid of them to do so after making new minis and books, so I’d bet against it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I for one am kinda pissed that I didn't get a chance to grab a box of fantasy boyz.

I’ll miss them. I can remember when they first arrived, nearly 20 years ago. And they held up very well imo.

Here’s hoping they remake ‘standard’ orks. Actually, these days I think it’s entirely possible to give the greenskins gunpowder weaponary. Nothing too fancy like handguns or cannons. Pistols, grenades and bombs, that sort of thing. A good contrast to the ‘knightly’ Ironjawz and savage bonesplittas.