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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Right, the new Admech jump infantry are good, they're also new. Gw seems reluctant to give new rules or stats to old units, even when they get new models like the aforementioned Banshees and csm. That's why it looks like primaris are always getting all the rules: they get the bulk of new models which get new rules. Gw needs to start updating older units so they can compete with the new ones, at minimum they should give them back some of the rules that they took away (why did my Chosen forget how to infiltrate?). As many have said, a big problem with the eradicators is how they look compared to older anti-tank infantry units. Eradicators wouldn't look as bad if multi-meltas were given improved rules. As I've said before, I don't want new units, I just want better rules for the units I already have. I think many would agree.


Havocs. CSM don't have much, sure. But neither do Intercessors. GW doesn't touch much old stuff until they redo the kits, but not everything will get extra rules.

Raptors have *a* special rule that sucks mostly because 18 points and no +2 to charge just doesn't make it useful at all. Everything but the basic stuff typically has a special rule or two. Primaris are no exception. You're just noting Primaris more, because they have a lot of releases and people are freaking out about some of the abilities. ( If Outriders didn't have +2A they'd be a bit of a joke. )

You won't get Raptors suddenly dropping bombs or extra charge range, because nothing justifies it in their fluff (I know, I know). What we'll probably see though is a new kit and some ability that interacts with attrition or a better LD mod ability. They won't suddenly become an amazing melee blender or super shooters.

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Right, the new Admech jump infantry are good, they're also new. Gw seems reluctant to give new rules or stats to old units, even when they get new models like the aforementioned Banshees and csm. That's why it looks like primaris are always getting all the rules: they get the bulk of new models which get new rules. Gw needs to start updating older units so they can compete with the new ones, at minimum they should give them back some of the rules that they took away (why did my Chosen forget how to infiltrate?). As many have said, a big problem with the eradicators is how they look compared to older anti-tank infantry units. Eradicators wouldn't look as bad if multi-meltas were given improved rules. As I've said before, I don't want new units, I just want better rules for the units I already have. I think many would agree.


Havocs. CSM don't have much, sure. But neither do Intercessors. GW doesn't touch much old stuff until they redo the kits, but not everything will get extra rules.

Raptors have *a* special rule that sucks mostly because 18 points and no +2 to charge just doesn't make it useful at all. Everything but the basic stuff typically has a special rule or two. Primaris are no exception. You're just noting Primaris more, because they have a lot of releases and people are freaking out about some of the abilities. ( If Outriders didn't have +2A they'd be a bit of a joke. )

You won't get Raptors suddenly dropping bombs or extra charge range, because nothing justifies it in their fluff (I know, I know). What we'll probably see though is a new kit and some ability that interacts with attrition or a better LD mod ability. They won't suddenly become an amazing melee blender or super shooters.

I wouldn't expect much for basic csm or intercessors either: those are basic troops. But older elite, heavy support, and fast attack units should be able to compete with newer units. Everyone can't get the same number of new units as loyalists, gw doesn't have the capacity. They can, however, update rules pretty easily. The hardest part would be rebalancing the points.

But if you're going to bring up raptors and their fluff, that's easy, as we have a perfectly good, fluffy set of rules that could be applied to them from an existing gw game. Night Raptors from the Horus Heresy. Convert that data sheet over to 9th, it would be just as easy as converting the old 7th ed raptor data sheet over to 8th was. It would even work with the existing raptor kit (though you couldn't have Nostroman chainglaives). Gw simply need to look at their own games for inspiration on that one.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Yea no doubt, but then it becomes a situation of managing a lot of moving pieces and GW is not good at that. Doing a sweep across units would cause a ton of havoc.

If GW follows the format we'll see a base CSM book with supplements for the snowflakes and that release could easily be noise marines, bezerkers, raptors, and mutilators. Though TS and DG would make it weird where EC and WE deviate a lot less.

*shrug* Hopefully we'll see what's next before my country becomes a hellscape.

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yea no doubt, but then it becomes a situation of managing a lot of moving pieces and GW is not good at that. Doing a sweep across units would cause a ton of havoc.

If GW follows the format we'll see a base CSM book with supplements for the snowflakes and that release could easily be noise marines, bezerkers, raptors, and mutilators. Though TS and DG would make it weird where EC and WE deviate a lot less.

*shrug* Hopefully we'll see what's next before my country becomes a hellscape.

If you don't trust them to update existing units then how can you trust them with all of these new ones?

As to that other point, yeah, glad I'm already in the hills.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I don't trust they can juggle everything at once. In 3 years they put out ~60 books. That's a ridiculous schedule.

   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic






 Aaranis wrote:
Honestly I probably will play one or two games against Marines to have fun with friends who play them, but if they stay as they are in their future codex and the others don't meet the same standards of creep I'm just not playing against Marines again. Had a 2v2 game once, AdMech + Chaos SM vs Ultramarines + Imperial Fists and it was the most unfun game I've ever played. Shoot the Aggressors/ ? They'll shoot back at you while dying with the Ancient behind. Try a charge ? Eat 500 bolter rounds to the face. Keep your distance ? LOL eat it just the same. We killed like 6 models and got almost tabled turn two. We're expected to have fun against that ?

Rules writer don't even know what's happening outside the SM codex when they're writing it, it doesn't surprise me they'd have units performing way better than similar units in other armies for way less.
Ice_can wrote:
Have Ultramarines, Knights and Tau.

Given up on the marines as they are too damn cheese it's no fun rofl stomping everyone even with a stupid list.

When people would rather play against a competitive Tau list or a Pure Knights list than a 30k/40k Marine list you know Marines is brokenness personified
A marine boycott‽ Sign me up. Otherwise I might consider running my custodian wardens as bladeguard.

Is it only primaris marines that are OP or are the normal marines also rediculous? You say your 30k derived list is strong, but all the marine netlists I see use mostly primaris.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





normal marines are not really an issue, still better then what most factons have but not to the point some primaris have gotten...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




UK

Except some of the most powerfully broken units were not Primaris at all.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Newman wrote:
^^^ Yeah, the Russ averages 8 shots without support. ...it is 10 point more though, not sure how I did that wrong.


Sorry about that - obviously too late in the day and forgot the Russ can shoot twice.

On New Models/Old Models - I think its just kind of random. GW comes up with rules they think are cool, and then throws a dart at points.
I think CSM players are kidding themselves that they won't eventually go down the Primaris Route - but this will be something GW want to sell. They are unlikely to wake up one day and go "meh, everything in power armour has 2 wounds now".

I think the Marines in Indomitus have all been priced aggressively. Its unclear however that the Necrons have.

I mean where are the threads about how massed Skorpekh Destroyers are going to scuttle over the meta?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Normal Marine's with 1W did suffer a little more from the lethality of 8th but codex 2.0 overshot the buff marines needed.

Competition lists use Primaris as they were generally given better rules or payed less for the buffs they got.

The 30k vehicals actually got pretty decent rules from FW in there index (the advantage of them being written to balance vrs guard and eldar codex's) and had allowed me to carry marine 1.0 codex in a non tournament games and win a fair amount.

But codex 2.0 was just Free AP and Free rules. Like seriously AP -4 Lascannons is like invulnerable or HAha dead. Even just having AP -1 storm bolters etc made many units just vaporize.

Heck Marine's 2.0 were still post two rounds of nerfs hitting 60% win rates against non marine lists at the start of this year.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 08:49:09


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Bosskelot wrote:
Except some of the most powerfully broken units were not Primaris at all.


well, yeah, especially smash captains, but that has more to do with GW not caring about how many differing buffs and add ons and whistles you have influencing a unit.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Tyel wrote:
The Newman wrote:
^^^ Yeah, the Russ averages 8 shots without support. ...it is 10 point more though, not sure how I did that wrong.


Sorry about that - obviously too late in the day and forgot the Russ can shoot twice.

On New Models/Old Models - I think its just kind of random. GW comes up with rules they think are cool, and then throws a dart at points.
I think CSM players are kidding themselves that they won't eventually go down the Primaris Route - but this will be something GW want to sell. They are unlikely to wake up one day and go "meh, everything in power armour has 2 wounds now"

I think the Marines in Indomitus have all been priced aggressively. Its unclear however that the Necrons have.

I mean where are the threads about how massed Skorpekh Destroyers are going to scuttle over the meta?

The release of the new kits in upscaled sizes that are still smaller than primaris doesn't seem to support "chaos primaris" (thankfully). I still wouldn't rule out things like cult troops and Chosen getting an extra wound, they need something to compete with the "good guys".

Ice_can wrote:The 30k vehicals actually got pretty decent rules from FW in there index (the advantage of them being written to balance vrs guard and eldar codex's) and had allowed me to carry marine 1.0 codex in a non tournament games and win a fair amount.

The initial Indexes were pretty well balanced against the non fw stuff, but ca 2018 nerfed a lot of fw stuff straight into the ground for no apparent reason. The index fellblade paid 50 points base over an index baneblade after factoring in the demolisher cannon being added into its cost (while the baneblade had to pay separately for its demolisher cannon), but ca 2018 jacked the price up 220 ppm (a 42% increase) with all the other super heavys taking similar hits, along with hits on other stuff.

The dreadnoughts seemed to do quite well, but the targeted nerfs at the hellforged leviathan and daredeo in the new ca, along with the moronic decision to price all the various contemptor models equally has me wondering about the new fw books. It was loyalist leviathans that were the big problem at the end of 8th, not the csm version, and daredeos were pretty important in a lot of csm armies. Hard not to see this as biased against csm.

Even with the "buffs" that some of the fw super heavys got in ca 2020 (some still got another increase) they're still massively overpriced, with the fellblade coming in at 285 base over a baneblade after factoring in the demolisher cannon (again, because gw can't be consistent with what wargear is free or not between various books).

I really want to see those new fw books.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





they don't have to need to give a damn, so long people go forwards to defend them, just like with the recent pricehike , alot of people moan, but nothing really happens and those few that get kicked out due to monetary reasons get weighed up by the whales.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?

Well, they apparently give a damn, just in the wrong direction, otherwise why did they take the time to do the ca 2018 nerf? It seems someone on the gw rules team just doesn't like fw, or at least the big stuff. How else do you explain the disparity between resin super heavy tanks and walkers vs the plastic ones? Really makes me worry what they're doing in those new fw books.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 catbarf wrote:
Edit: Although for a contrary example, while not as egregious, Pteraxii having Assault 5 guns seems a little ridiculous.

Oh yeah, another good example of profile inflation.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?


The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.

   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?


The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.

No, it isn't. Gw has handled the points updates since ca 2018, as well as recent erratas and FAQs, fw only did the original Indexes. Do I need to remind you of exactly what they did to the points for many fw models in ca 2018?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?


The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.

Nope Custodes was GW, Knights rewrite (firesale) was GW main studio too. FW haven't been allowed to touch 40k rules since they did a better job of their index's than GW did.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 16:05:11


 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?


The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.

Nope Custodes was GW, Knights rewrite (firesale) was GW main studio too. FW haven't been allowed to touch 40k rules since they did a better job of their index's than GW did.


Did you... did you actually buy a FW Index? Because I did. And they were shockingly poor. Typos, things that didn’t marry up with the rules, missiles that replenished somehow and cost as much as lascannons, non-functioning things. Total mess.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Gadzilla666 wrote:

No, it isn't. Gw has handled the points updates since ca 2018, as well as recent erratas and FAQs, fw only did the original Indexes. Do I need to remind you of exactly what they did to the points for many fw models in ca 2018?


Yea, they took on a ton more work unexpectedly and just propped it up on stilts. They kicked models into the stratosphere that probably should be kept to Apocalypse.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?


The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.

Nope Custodes was GW, Knights rewrite (firesale) was GW main studio too. FW haven't been allowed to touch 40k rules since they did a better job of their index's than GW did.


Did you... did you actually buy a FW Index? Because I did. And they were shockingly poor. Typos, things that didn’t marry up with the rules, missiles that replenished somehow and cost as much as lascannons, non-functioning things. Total mess.

I'll take typo's on units that actually got rules I could use without being tabled vrs the GW pish that followed.
Also FW were very open from the drop of 8th the index's were a rush job and would not be to their usual standard, I bought them electronically and they were updated fairly quickly to fix a lot of the typo's
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





There were numerous errors in the FW index that were literally broken.

I dont mean overpowered. I dont mean silly. I mean they couldn't be parsed in the rules of 8e without house rules.

They were AWFUL books for rule writing.
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

No, it isn't. Gw has handled the points updates since ca 2018, as well as recent erratas and FAQs, fw only did the original Indexes. Do I need to remind you of exactly what they did to the points for many fw models in ca 2018?


Yea, they took on a ton more work unexpectedly and just propped it up on stilts. They kicked models into the stratosphere that probably should be kept to Apocalypse.

Less unexpectedly than fw having mere weeks to get the Indexes done, and the same amount of time to come to grasps with the new rules for 8th, but fw still did it fairly well without copping out. Gw then had a full year between ca 2018 and ca 2019 and did nothing. And now it looks like they've only given them a cursory glance in ca 2020, pricing units by name instead of their rules.

And as far as "units that should be in Apocalypse", titans, obviously, but if Fellblades, Cerberus, Falchions, and the fw Knights should be relegated to Apocalypse then Baneblades, Wraithknights, and the plastic knights should go with them along with all other titanic units. Many make that argument, I didn't think you were one of them. I don't remember super heavys ever breaking the game in 7th, and they weren't a problem in 8th except for the initial Castellan build, maybe I was using mine wrong. They shouldn't be allowed below a 2000 point game, but other than that, I don't see the problem.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

So what are you saying here Daed? Are you just pointing out that other factions have units that are good in comparison to loyalists or agreeing that new units seem to get better data sheets than older units that existed in previous editions? I mean, I look at all that and compare it to raptors and assault marines and think .


That these are really good units and that Primaris are not the only ones being "gifted".

The Overlord got a 3" boost to his aura and it works on everything as opposed to just INFANTRY.
Necron Warriors picked up RR 1s on reanimate.
Scarabs went to always wounding on 5s to hit and wound on 6s to hit.

Primaris units don't have a plethora of super special rules. Each unit has one or sometimes two things it does extra. Eradicators double shoot. Aggressors double shoot or run and gun. Suppressors block O/W. Outriders get +2A on the charge. Inceptors do MW on the charge.

People are just very practiced at freaking out about marines, because of doctrines and traits.


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





the_scotsman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

So what are you saying here Daed? Are you just pointing out that other factions have units that are good in comparison to loyalists or agreeing that new units seem to get better data sheets than older units that existed in previous editions? I mean, I look at all that and compare it to raptors and assault marines and think .


That these are really good units and that Primaris are not the only ones being "gifted".

The Overlord got a 3" boost to his aura and it works on everything as opposed to just INFANTRY.
Necron Warriors picked up RR 1s on reanimate.
Scarabs went to always wounding on 5s to hit and wound on 6s to hit.

Primaris units don't have a plethora of super special rules. Each unit has one or sometimes two things it does extra. Eradicators double shoot. Aggressors double shoot or run and gun. Suppressors block O/W. Outriders get +2A on the charge. Inceptors do MW on the charge.

People are just very practiced at freaking out about marines, because of doctrines and traits.


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


ouch...

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

So who actually won? A Golden Banana Boy army or Loyalist Dogs?
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic






Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
Yeah I was talking 8th edition loyalists, as even the FW stuff got the benifits of doctorines etc.

Yeah FW stuff has just felt neglected since GW took over their rules.
Heck even the stuff they produced new rules for Knights got seriously WTF points as they rewrote the entire datasheet and never touched the points, like could you make it more obvious you suck at your job?

Or do they simply not give a damn?
The upcoming FW books are literally the first time GW is taking over FW rules. The upheaval on the FW team from the death of Alan Bligh didn't help.
Nope Custodes was GW, Knights rewrite (firesale) was GW main studio too. FW haven't been allowed to touch 40k rules since they did a better job of their index's than GW did.
IIRC, CA 2018 was the first time GW wrote FW rules, technically. I don't remember where I heard that, but it explains why they were so bad. Of course, keep in mind that the FW team was essentially just Alan Bligh and maybe two other people.

But back on point, it looks like competitive-breaking marines are primaris and/or the handful of broken FW vehicles out of the dozens that GW is determined to never let see the light of day. So I guess if you want to play fair marines, just take models that are listed in the 7th edition codex. Not that anyone seems to use non-FW normal marines anymore, aside from GK and maybe deathwatch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So who actually won? A Golden Banana Boy army or Loyalist Dogs?
Once people have completed their indomitous bladeguard, the puppies will win. Each one is... You can read the rest of this thread, I won't repeat it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 19:29:20


 
   
Made in us
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

I was referring to the GT that The Scotsman was talking about. Yes, we all know that the new primaris stuff is good.

And stop badmouthing the fw rules team, then literally only had weeks to figure out the 8th edition rules and fit their stuff into it. I think what we got was pretty good considering. And it was a lot better than what gw gave us after they took over. I mean, we're talking about the same team that did the 7th ed Imperial Armour books and HH. Bligh was incredibly good, but he didn't do everything. Give them some credit.

Honestly, why couldn't they have just left the fw Indexes alone? Was a 697 point Fellblade really breaking the game? Compared to what the codex super heavys costed at the end of 8th?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 19:45:55


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?

   
 
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