[Trench Crusade] New skirmish game being designed by Tuomas Pirinen (KS closed US$3.3 million)

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**alphaecho**

As someone who has bought from Only Games, their prints of the Wargames Atlantic Death Fields miniatures arrived timely and with no errors.

That was 18 months or so ago but five separate orders had no hassles involved.

**catbarf**

kodos wrote:
and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game

Given that it's an outgrowth of the Inq28 and 28 Mag communities, dedicated to kitbashing for theme rather than soullessly assembling kits into tournament min-maxing, that doesn't really sound like a problem.

I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.

**kodos**

But this ignores thst the majority of pledges for the KS are for physical warbands

So if the physical models are the thing people are going for, and causes most interest, I would say that it left tha niche of kitbashing already and a better supply of physical models is the next step to keep the game going

**Shakalooloo**

kodos wrote:
But this ignores thst the majority of pledges for the KS are for physical warbands

So if the physical models are the thing people are going for, and causes most interest, I would say that it left tha niche of kitbashing already and a better supply of physical models is the next step to keep the game going

As they've said in their updates, the creators were surprised by how well they're doing, and clearly weren't expecting the physical models to be such a draw. With that new knowledge, presumably they will take a look into bolstering that side of the game.

**manic _miner**

Physical models will be a big draw as not everyone has a 3D printer.I also think that a lot of people like to have official miniatures to a game.

**mithril2098**

Their Reddit is awash with people kitbashing stuff, not all of it stuff from the official rules so far. sometimes it's just stuff that they feel fits the aesthetic.

**Alpharius**

Anyone have any idea how to use/build the trench terrain pieces offered in the campaign?

Are they attaching them to foam core or...something else?

**Theophony**

Alpharius wrote:
Anyone have any idea how to use/build the trench terrain pieces offered in the campaign?

Are they attaching them to foam core or...something else?

Foam would be the least expensive and offer you the ability to shape the terrain for the killing fields.

**scarletsquig**

catbarf wrote:
kodos wrote:
and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game

I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.

That's a pretty great move from the creators and shows that they just want the game to be enjoyed, that kind of attitude probably explains a big part of the runaway success it's getting.

**Theophony**

scarletsquig wrote:
catbarf wrote:
kodos wrote:
and "just use something else" makes it a rules only game

I mean, there are official minis, plus they're giving third-parties explicit permission to make models for it, and the theme/style offers lots of opportunity to kitbash your own- the barrier to entry is pretty low.

That's a pretty great move from the creators and shows that they just want the game to be enjoyed, that kind of attitude probably explains a big part of the runaway success it's getting.

Also, if this continues to grow and they see fan favorite designers, they might be able to make them "Official". Right now they don't have to pay them, so it lets them get the game more off the ground and established before growing.

**catbarf**

A Kickstarter update today talks more about their licensing policy:

Greetings Crusaders!

Today we talk about something very important to us: third party content for Trench Crusade.

As we’ve said on the main page, third party minis, kitbashes and conversions will always be welcome on a Trench Crusade table. Historically, they are what allowed the game to get its start and grow whilst we worked on the official range. We see no reason for this to change.

However, with the game officially launching and especially considering its success, we are going to have to steward our IP appropriately. Now, and I’m going to be very open on the matter, we do not intend to come across as heavy handed but we do need to lay some ground rules. I’m sure you can all imagine why.

This doesn’t mean that, like with a lot of other elements that are a fundamental part of this project’s DNA, we can’t think outside of the box and approach it in a manner that is honest, constructive, and community focused.

That’s why, inspired by the TTRPG scene and especially games like MÖRK BORG and Mothership, we’re very happy to announce the upcoming Third Party License for Trench Crusade!

The Trench Crusade TPL
Anyone can make content for Trench Crusade. And we’re not just talking miniatures here but scenarios, campaigns, stories, art, music, whatever you like! We honestly can’t wait to see what you come up with!

If you intend to distribute this content for free then our only request is that you don’t include any of our official material, but we will be releasing a free content pack with basic assets that you can use.

If you would like to monetise your creations, it gets a little more complicated but that’s fine too! There will be 3 “levels” for this:

Free - Obviously we don’t own the concept of a weird WW1 setting with religious undertones and we’re not going to pretend that we do. You are free to make whatever you like. However, please do not use our name or any official material.

Compatible with Trench Crusade - You can submit your project to us in order to get permission to advertise it as “compatible with Trench Crusade”. This check is only to verify that the project meets our community guidelines and standards. You owe us nothing and the use of certain official material can be requested.

Licensing/Co-publishing - Officially licensing the TC universe. We obviously get a cut at this point but the product is “official” and we can also help you with development, distribution, etc.

This is a rough outline of what we’ll be putting into place and details may vary depending on each situation. We’ll have more precise info early next year when we officially roll this out. We also want this time to act as a grace period for the creators that already have TC content up for sale to decide what they’d like to do.

**Alpharius**

I think that's a good sign, and certainly a show of confidence on many fronts.

Westfalia's New Antioch troops look nice:

...and, I must get this model!

**insaniak**

beast_gts wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Anyone know why the downgrade from previous KS's Siocast to 3d prints?
SioCast (the company) are a nightmare to deal with -

Spoiler:

SioCast delays

In our last update, we mentioned that SioCast had delayed a large order of thermoplastic for Zealot Miniatures (our caster) to continue casting the many thousands of miniatures required for Trench Crusade. Zealot placed this order almost THREE MONTHS AGO now, but they are still waiting for SioCast to send it. This is most vexing and probably very disappointing for you to hear – it certainly is for us! We can only apologise profusely for the long delay caused by them. It is totally out of our hands (and our caster’s) which is so frustrating.

SioCast have been pretty vague and disappointing in their replies, and we have often had to wait for responses to multiple emails, with excuses ranging from staff vacations to disruptions in SioCast’s operations (apparently due to “changes in their purchasing and logistics department”). They assure us that they have resolved these matters now.

SioCast’s CEO emailed Zealot last night to apologise for the delays and he said that the material will be shipped out today (19th October). SioCast are in Spain, Zealot are in the UK, so hopefully this will take no more than a week. Let us hope that this time, the shipment actually arrives (a previous shipment was apparently returned at customs) and there are no customs delays.

This all sadly amounts to a further extension to the timeframe, I am extremely sorry to say. We are extremely frustrated by SioCast’s poor customer service and can only apologise – once again – for yet another delay. If we could source the thermoplastic from elsewhere, we would, but it is a special formula devised by SioCast to work specifically with their machines. This means we have no choice but to order material from them – there is simply nowhere else to get it.

(From their last KS)

Having previously had Zealot just... stop communicating midway through a project, the irony is strong with this one.

**Pacific**

Now approaching £1.5 million.

Have to say some of the concept art, aside from being Kingdom Death-level disturbing in places (minus the cheesecake!) is absolutely stupendous.

The artists they have involved: John Blanche, Dave Gallagher, Paul Bonner (Some old GW heavyweights) plus the guy who wrote Mordheim and WHFB 6th edition (my favourite edition!) I was never going to resist this one.

Does anyone know if there is any plan for retail sales? (I know they have said they will have an online store, but it's always good to support a local FLGS if you can).

**Alpharius**

Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!

They'll be an online store, of course, and many 3rd party offerings too - but I imagine this will all be online only as well.

Does anyone have any sources for trench terrain that will work for the game too?

I want to get a start on a table...

**scarletsquig**

I'm going to look into sculpting some terrain for this, I've never seen a company handing out this much of an olive branch to the third party community before.

There's so much about the setting which can be developed, a whole altered Earth to explore, potential for faction-specific terrain and demonic ruins as well as huge setpieces like the gate of martyrs and iron wall which could form a whole gaming table.

**Overread**

Alpharius wrote:

I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!

That's likely because they are still fulfilling their Kickstarters. At least last I checked they were still working through them whilst doing standard production to sell direct from their site to help keep their lights on and the company going.

I don't think they've the production capacity to go into retail wholesale supply. They might have enough to do a one-off, but not regular supply alongside everything else they need to run.

**His Master's Voice**

Alpharius wrote:
Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I mean, you can find the latest edition of Kult in retail.

**Alpharius**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I mean, you can find the latest edition of Kult in retail.

Fair point, though I've never seen it in a store - while also admitting I've never been specifically looking for it!

**Shakalooloo**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I mean, you can find the latest edition of Kult in retail.

Albeit with a censored cover.

**Theophony**

Alpharius wrote:
Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!

They'll be an online store, of course, and many 3rd party offerings too - but I imagine this will all be online only as well.

Does anyone have any sources for trench terrain that will work for the game too?

I want to get a start on a table...

Epicbasing.com sells prints and digital files including a trench warfare set that I picked up. Has bomb blasts, razor wire, spikes, sandbags and boards for trench floors.

the cannon/tractor was from Dust, I just added stuff to it to make a possible table objective for a game.

I think Dust had some pillbox terrain pieces that should also work for this. Some of their models could easily be converted or just painted to be more grimdark.

**Kid_Kyoto**

5 days to go!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1405364378/trench-crusade

Close to US$2 million.

**Pacific**

Quite shocked by how large the online community already is for this game, with the FB group having about 28,000 members. And some of the conversions and kitbashing going on is remarkable, I wonder if it has been well timed with people that miss this being such a central component of GW games these days.

A pretty good write-up and summary of the game on Goonhammer
[url]
https://www.goonhammer.com/trench-crusade-its-over-the-top/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGZbIlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHV727YbI-O0PH7chfUc-fuK30yuf1qvo7aDOsaHI6IowGPSg67y9TyaSdQ_aem_Cp2J9jYLmG5ZfICeeFDinA[/url]

**lord_blackfang**

My own views on the system are somewhat dimmer, I find it schizophrenic in that it tries to marry very slick modern mechanics with archaic army building with fixed factions, fixed stats, fixed abilities, but then an overcrowded wargear section there isn't really design space for, so every item does the same thing mechanically. It's like Pirinen's take on writing 30 AoS spells that all do D3 mortal wounds with slight variations in range, accuracy, target type etc.

**Dysartes**

Yes, but you've been a negative voice in the thread since October, so that's not really a shock.

**beast_gts**

Project Update #17 wrote:2 Million Ducats...

Crusaders,

If 1 million was already a number we considered fanciful, then 2 million is just mind blowing. We sincerely never thought we’d get this far…

Thank you all again for everything. We will make Trench Crusade into the game you all want and can play for years to come.

Of course, you’ve all read my words of thanks more than enough so I’m going to turn the proverbial mic over to the games creators:

Tuomas
I have no words to convey both my gratitude and excitement for the support the community has given to us. We will strive to be worthy of the trust you have placed on us.

First, we want to fulfil the Kickstarter until each and every one of you has everything you pledged for. This is our sole focus for the immediate future.

But afterwards? Your support has ensured that in the future we can look at things like the Hebrew Knights, the Church of Metamorphosis, the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth Hussars, the remnants of the Varangian Guard, the horrors of the Path of the Beast, and much, much more. Let us walk this path together.

Mike
Thank you all for believing in our weird little game. Your support means the world to me and i look forward to dreaming up freakish weirdos for you all in the years to come!

James
Well, mind suitably blown, I am finding it hard to put my gratitude into words… To all you valiant pilgrims (and despicable heretics), I bestow upon you the biggest, soppiest, most heartfelt virtual hug I can summon! Because of your ducats, I can continue sculpting those freakish weirdos that keep falling out of Mike’s brain and into his sketchbook. Thanks so much you bloody amazing people.

**lord_blackfang**

Hard plastic sprues when?

**Theophony**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Hard plastic sprues when?

Right now.

Go buy whatever you like and convert them or use them how they are.

**Alpharius**

Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?

**lord_blackfang**

Alpharius wrote:
Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?

Wargames Atlantic's WW1 range is pretty swell and they even have a weird war upgrade sprue.

TC is all digital so can be printed to match, anyway.