Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Alpharius wrote:
Retail sales might be a challenge, given the subject matter, imagery, etc.

I don't see Kingdom Death on the shelves anywhere either!

They'll be an online store, of course, and many 3rd party offerings too - but I imagine this will all be online only as well.

Does anyone have any sources for trench terrain that will work for the game too?

I want to get a start on a table...

This is very good for the cost and prints well https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-grimguard-trench-terrain-357327

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Are there good 'hard plastic' WWI miniatures available that are closer the the 32mm this game looks to be aiming for (at least in terms of 'normal' humans) vs. 28mm?

Wargames Atlantic's WW1 range is pretty swell and they even have a weird war upgrade sprue.

TC is all digital so can be printed to match, anyway.

i've seen a number of people on their reddit kitbashing the WGA Great War plastics with the WGA barons war Plastics. often just as simple as sticking some medieval great helms on the WW1 troops to make rifle infantry, and WW1 gasmask heads onto the Barons war kits to make armored melee infantry. though most are far more creative. WGA's lines being so easy to kitbash together, and having so many good aesthetic options, seem to have made them a popular choice.

It's looking like this will likely hit 3 million before it ends. I just backed it for the rulebook and 1 physical warband. The aesthetics are right up my alley. I have doubts about actually getting around to participating in a campaign, but the models will surely be a joy to work on.

KS hit £3M+ mark.

I really hope that they are able to deliver. If they can this could be a significant player in the gaming community

They haven't over promised despite hitting such a high mark. The models stl are done and are printed on demand by Only Games, the dice are made by another company. The only thing they need to worry about is designing the rulebook and getting it printed and shipped out, which they given themselves about 6 months to do.

So very obtainable goals, especially with the experience and talent already behind this.

Actually I'd be worried about Only Games quality control. The Rulebook and most of the other aspects are likely pretty solid and the STLs should be totally safe once delivered. OG and quality control/production pace is a risk (esp since 3D printing doesn't scale up for volume as well as casting can). But we'll have to wait and see on that front.

700 all-in and 8000 individualized warband orders are gonna break OG for sure.

OG might have started to print the miniatures now to get a head start with the project doing so well.

Oh I bet. The problem is the creators being so stingy they want you to order specialist models a la carte, leading to 8000 orders that will all need to be hand picked.

Tuomas and crew have their names big and bold on this endeavor. I think they are well prepared for it especially with the funds they received compared to what they thought was coming. They have not over promised, and I think at the first sign that OG are having difficulties, they will reach out to make other partners to complete the project. I see no reason for the Doom and Gloom (beside the spirit of their universe). While I did not back the game, I have been flooded with posts from the Facebook group with all the pretty conversions and displays. This is a real labor of love. Not sure if it will be a rival for 40K, but it could easily be a contender for some of the Warcry/Kill Team money.

Hah, no. It's had an amazing KS campaign, but KS things don't tend to draw big retail money. And what even is retail for a game you need to mail order prints for?

If they actually commit to hard plastic, they might maintain a meaningful physical presence. Nothing that could compare to anything GW's on any scale. A fraction of Atlantic's or Achon's or whichever manufacturer's total sales. Possibly as big a Frostgrave. Until then, they're still on the artsy "hashtag 28" fringes, with Turnip, Forbidden Psalm, etc. albeit with a much, much bigger initial surge. I'd be very interested to know where this came from, who is buying TC that wasn't buying those games? There can't be that many Mordheim-exclusive grognards left, surely.

I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".

Of course a big part of that was them already tooling up for plastics which makes it a lot easier to get stock on shelves and shifting.


Trench Crusade isn't at that stage yet, but 3 million is enough to start considering looking at plastics seriously. Perhaps another KS in the future, so long as this one does well, to help tool up for plastics. Or perhaps they'll just go for their own 3D printfarm to take that in-house in the future. There's a lot of avenues they can take.


My concern is more just focused on OnlyGames due to experiences/what I've heard from others. Who knows perhaps this is OG's turning point where they also really pull out all the stops and do great.

There are over 20 Mordheim exclusive grognards at my LGS alone that run a league regularly every few months. This doing so well is not surprising.
Gamers are hungry for another Mordheim and GW seems determined to never bring it back.

I backed. Got brought in when a friend put it on my radar, and I realized I'd commented on someone elses "Trench Crusade" dakkadakka posts on some paintjobs that I loved. (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/814790.page)

How serindipidous that I'm a bit absent minded!

I love the models, and share the sentiment echoed by some here - not sure this will get to the table, but I'll sure have fun painting up the models!

I am amazed and happy with the kickstarter results.Now the creatives behind this literally have the backing to work on this setting, the art, and the rules for a good long time before they even have to consider changing for profit.

As far as plastics go, I think it's not worth it.
If you took one look at the Facebook group and the diversity of conversions, the results can't be condensed easily into minis for mass production without also diluting and homogenizing the setting drastically.

I think 3D prints and Stls are the way to go forward.
Maybe boutique resin prints as well.
With the stls I will receive, I can't forsee a reason to print them more than maybe 3 times each. Even the grunts have unique looks that become weird when cloned.

Possibly commissioning Wargames Atlantic or such to do weapon & bits sprues could be a good approach.
But I can't see the ongoing demand for a specific faction of models being high enough to justify the plastics design, mold production and distribution costs.
Especially when the current scale of the game requires so few actual minis.

Interesting to say that multi part sprues would homogenize the setting but everyone printing the same 7 monopose sculpts won't...

A things im quite taken with TC (i backed the KS) is it very modern approach to wargaming and an acknowledgement of where the gaming landscape right now

1. Free rules and resources (sure an app will come)
2. Official models available as physical models AND STLs for home 3d printing
3. Fully embracing 3rd party model makers/printers with option to officially be adopted by the game.
4. Full model agnostic so you can buy/print/kitbash as you want
5. A very interesting lore

If TC is a big success it might break the mold for the better. GW lags far behind in its approach. Other games producers are well ahead of them in terms of approach if not scale. Will be an interesting time for wargaming if TC takes off.

 Overread wrote:
I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".

I feel what brought BT out of a 20 year slump was easily accessible retail product with miniatures inside, something TC is explicitly not offering.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I mean there's as many as there are Battletech Grognards as their KS's also funded into the millions and basically brought Battletech out of a, what, 20 year general slump of "its there but not mainstream".

I feel what brought BT out of a 20 year slump was easily accessible retail product with miniatures inside, something TC is explicitly not offering.

I mean that happened because of the kickstarter successes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'd be very interested to know where this came from, who is buying TC that wasn't buying those games? There can't be that many Mordheim-exclusive grognards left, surely.

Lots of people that saw the insanely cool art sprinkled all over the internet, and passed it on to friends, to friends, to friends. Trench Crusade looks like nothing else (well, maybe a touch of Blasphemous) out there. To me, it seems that it's the world and atmosphere that's drawing people more than the game or models.

I think I'm personally almost looking forward to sniffing and reading the rulebook more than anything else.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh I bet. The problem is the creators being so stingy they want you to order specialist models a la carte, leading to 8000 orders that will all need to be hand picked.

Stingy?

Or being sensible enough to not promise the Earth - cursed, or otherwise - in every pledge?

I'm a little confused by the 'stingy'. They offer the option to select warband and/or faction bundles or single models.

It certainly would have kept things easier for them to have only offered the bundles, but it would also have made pledging less attractive to those not wanting to buy the whole bundle.

I went in rather large for me on this one; all the stls and quite a few physical extras. It's been a long time since a game has excited me as much as this one has. I look forward to seeing what the ks success opens up for its future.

Welp, turns out we have a few excited local backers, so I guess I'll have to give it a test run soon.

For €1.90 you'd be crazy not to, despite how negative you've been about it here.

What's... what's €1.90?

Wow, US$3.3 million, congratulations to all involved.

I think the biggest surprise is that this kind of almost grew from nothing. Years of slow grind almost in the background and then suddenly BOOM $3.3 million in one massive kickstarter.

Which is the kind of gamer numbers for something totally new that we haven't seen for a very long time in KS (possibly pre-pandemic ?) Again for a totally new game KS with a new franchise that isn't linked to anything or a firm that has done dozens before.

Trench Crusade even got featured in todays local newspaper here in Finland:

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/kulttuuri/art-2000010831777.html?_x_tr_hist=true

translated to english for yall non finns

EDIT: weirdly enough, the link doesnt work when I copypaste it from my browser.. How does this Google Translate work, anyway?
lets see if a copypaste works better..

The game designed by a Finn collected more than three million dollars in crowdfunding
Jussi Ahlroth HS13.11. 21:11
Games |The game, designed by the successful game designer Tuomas Pirinen, collected massive crowdfunding on Kickstarter in two weeks.

The Trench Crusade miniatures game takes place in World War I trench warfare involving demons. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy

Tuomas Pirinen is an internationally successful Finnish game designer.

The Trench Crusade miniature game designed by Pirinen raised more than 3 million dollars on Kickstarter.

The game is set in the trenches of the First World War and contains religious themes.

Trench Crusade has been praised for supporting diversity and removing racists from forums.

How do you make over three million dollars from customers before they even get the product they bought?

Although by making a religion-themed miniatures game about fighting the devils of hell in the trenches of World War I.

This is how Tuomas Pirinen could answer . He is one of Finland's most internationally successful game designers, with a career spanning over thirty years at companies such as Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, Remedy, Nintendo and Capcom. Now he is a senior director of game design at Playstation.

However, Trench Crusade, which he designed and produced more than three million, is not a console game. It is the own project of Pirinen and a few other respected long-time creators in the field. For example, the artist of the Diablo game series, Michael Franchina, is included .

"We have made a career working for large companies. This was a crazy way to waste time and money.”

The millions came from the Kickstarter crowdfunding service where the game was released. Through it, those who wish can commit to buying the game. There are different versions with different prices. The campaign generated $3,331,000 (approx. EUR 3,152,000) in two weeks. It is probably a record set by a Finn in crowdfunding.

"It went fabulously well. The useless Finnish feigned humility is a bit false. I hope that this would encourage Finnish game designers and other creators in the creative industry. It is possible to succeed."

Demonic miniatures from Trench Crusade. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy

Trench Crusade is a miniatures game. The game includes rules, miniatures, environment building elements and dice.

The player has an army of small plastic and resin miniatures to fight against another player's army. In military games, the most famous of which is the sci-fi war game Warhammer 40,000 , there must be hundreds of miniatures at best. They all have to be bought and painted.

"It's a bit like Band of Brothers, where a band of soldiers goes through the war."

Trench Crusade is lighter. "With six miniatures, you can start the game quickly and with little effort."

The name of the game means trench crusade. The battlefield is the trenches of the First World War. The parties to the war are different nations and religious groups, as well as demons from hell. They were released 800 years earlier, at the time of the Crusades. Since then, there has been a war between heaven and hell.

The player guides his troops through events that unfold according to the story.

"It's a bit like Band of Brothers , where a band of soldiers goes through the war."

There are many sides to the hobby of miniature games .

"Someone is interested in reading the background story of books, someone collects and paints miniatures, someone likes artists and buys game books as art books, someone plays racing, someone else as a role-playing cooperative game."

Kickstarter's success is all the more special because players would have had to buy nothing. The rules of the game have already been published for free and the game can be played with any miniatures.

This goes against the general practice of the industry. According to the rules, the games of the market leader Games Workshop must be played with the miniatures produced by it.

"It is a listed company that accounts for shareholders. I don't want to moralize it.”

Games Workshop is Pirise's former employer, for whom he made, among other things, the popular game Mordheim .

With the success of the crowdfunding, Trench Crusade grows bigger. According to Pirinen, the popularity has attracted the interest of investors. Other players in the industry have also announced their willingness to expand the world of the game.

Trench Crusade game art. Photo : Mike Franchina

Unlike many miniatures games, in Trench Crusade a player needs less than ten miniatures. The miniatures are painted by Stéphane Nguyen Van Gioi and Martin Grandbarbe. Photo : Loic Muzy

The game takes place in a version of the real world. It's rare. Pirinen thinks one of the reasons is the fear of dealing with religion. Especially in the United States, it is a sensitive topic. A big game company probably wouldn't have published such a game.

"It is impossible to separate cultural heritage from Christianity in the West. We see it as an asset.”

Pirinen tells the background story of the game, which explores the interaction of faith with war, what a world and war would look like in an endless war. Of course, you can play the game without thinking about such things any more.

There is a very small but very vocal racist wing in the Warhammer 40,000 fan community. Early on, they made videos declaring the Trench Crusade a failure. According to Pirinen, they were angry, for example, that Ethiopia is presented as an equal partner of Western countries.

The Trench Crusade team has received praise for systematically and quickly throwing racists out of the game's forums.

"We are proud that the community has all kinds of people with different identity paths, different beliefs, nationalities. Everyone should be able to be part of the community without fear of harassment."

Miniature gaming is a big hobby and also a business in the world. It could go to the next level with the release of the Warhammer 40,000 TV series currently being made by Hollywood star Henry Cavill for Amazon Prime. Cavill is an active miniatures game enthusiast.

Has Pirinen introduced the game to Cavill?

"Not yet. We do have mutual acquaintances, so maybe at some point. We don't want to push you, Cavill is a genuine enthusiast."

 Overread wrote:
I think the biggest surprise is that this kind of almost grew from nothing. Years of slow grind almost in the background and then suddenly BOOM $3.3 million in one massive kickstarter.

Which is the kind of gamer numbers for something totally new that we haven't seen for a very long time in KS (possibly pre-pandemic ?) Again for a totally new game KS with a new franchise that isn't linked to anything or a firm that has done dozens before.

I wouldn't really say "almost nothing" in the background. There's been a fairly large online community requesting official models for a good while now and it's garnered enough attention pre-Kickstarter that the devs for Helldivers 2 promoted the game on their Twitter and are in talks to potentially do a Trench Crusade crossover event.