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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


I don't. Make boyz, trukks, and gretchins worthy of their 9, 70 and 5 points instead. GW finally aknowledged that spamming cheap stuff is bad.


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 JNAProductions wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


As much as that would be amazing, there's no way they're putting down boy points after hyping up the T5 prior to the Ork release, GW wouldn't want that loss of face. Also, grotz are unfortunately doomed to be stuck at the 5 point mark, because that's their price baseline for some bizarre reason this edition, they'll never go below that for a model's cost. I would hope battlewagons get some love considering how inferior they are to kill rigs at the moment.
Yeah. I'm okay with Grots at five... But then Cultists and Conscripts should be at least six.

Basically, GW needs to increase the points on almost everything, to give a little more granularity.

in what world is a cultist worth more than a guardsmen?


As an aside: Quadruple big shoota / Megablasta deff dread? Yay or nay in freeboters? Normally i think sticking a claw on it to increase its melee capabilities would be normal?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/26 08:19:35


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Tomsug wrote:
Stop moaning. Drukhari “expect nerf very soon” two years already. The only they got is small balance.

And the new AdMech? THIS was broken like a hell and pop up few weeks after codex release. Improved Dakkajet is a piece of junk if you compare it to the original chickens etc. And those way the only that got something like a nerf, bud very light and gentle.

Orks are out since summer. The “broken lists” do not use the new models so people play it almost 3 months already. Are we top tier army ruining the tournaments? Well, look at the goonhammer stats. The best you can say is, we are in top 10 and definitely not top 3.

Moaning about ork player smashed down druhkari on SoCal? Look at the video. It was a combination of “anti drukhari list”, good luck and bad luck.

So stop moaning. Go, have a seat and enjoy the game or paint your killrigs


I don't see a lot of moaning, so I don't really understand all the "stop moaning" posts
Actually I am on my 15th hour spent on my killrig (well the actual model). It is a long, exhausting, but kind of nice experience. It feels like assembling a boat, but with a sguig and wheels. Painting it is quite long (unless you use spray paint i guess) but it is coming along nicely. I don't know if others are currently doing this, how long did it take you (or how long have you already spent, and think you will need to spend still ?)

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Addnid - yeah, it takes a lot and you want two at least

10500p and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Not Online!!! wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


As much as that would be amazing, there's no way they're putting down boy points after hyping up the T5 prior to the Ork release, GW wouldn't want that loss of face. Also, grotz are unfortunately doomed to be stuck at the 5 point mark, because that's their price baseline for some bizarre reason this edition, they'll never go below that for a model's cost. I would hope battlewagons get some love considering how inferior they are to kill rigs at the moment.
Yeah. I'm okay with Grots at five... But then Cultists and Conscripts should be at least six.

Basically, GW needs to increase the points on almost everything, to give a little more granularity.

in what world is a cultist worth more than a guardsmen?


As an aside: Quadruple big shoota / Megablasta deff dread? Yay or nay in freeboters? Normally i think sticking a claw on it to increase its melee capabilities would be normal?


my counter would be in what world is a gretchin better than a guardsman, conscript or cultist? it was play tested for gretchin to be 2 for 5 points they were barely worth it because they were not able to take actions like they went with, but at least they filled slots at 2.5 points per. at 5 points they should be given a inbuilt minus 1 to hit and be able to take actions. so they would be good for scoring and holding things down but still weak offensively with a crap save.

as for dreds i would always give it at least 1 claw to them, not having a claw means people will likely not fear charging it.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
you guys really like to cry doom n gloom....this has been a cycle every ork release that whatever is actually good is gonna get slammed hard. Not even whats actually OP good, no just 'good' good.

I could easily see 2 of the buggies going up a bit because they do feel unusually cheap, but aside from that...the codex is fine... every codex gets a couple point tweaks in the CA here and there.

 Tomsug wrote:
Stop moaning. Drukhari “expect nerf very soon” two years already. The only they got is small balance.

And the new AdMech? THIS was broken like a hell and pop up few weeks after codex release. Improved Dakkajet is a piece of junk if you compare it to the original chickens etc. And those way the only that got something like a nerf, bud very light and gentle.

Orks are out since summer. The “broken lists” do not use the new models so people play it almost 3 months already. Are we top tier army ruining the tournaments? Well, look at the goonhammer stats. The best you can say is, we are in top 10 and definitely not top 3.

Moaning about ork player smashed down druhkari on SoCal? Look at the video. It was a combination of “anti drukhari list”, good luck and bad luck.

So stop moaning. Go, have a seat and enjoy the game or paint your killrigs


Its less "doom and gloom" and more like "experience". In 8th we had the badmoonz gunline filled with shoot twice Lootas. GW nerfed the stratagem Mob up so you couldn't do it anymore which relegated Lootas from being gimmicky but competitive to the garbage pile. Then they gave us the Relic SSAG which was actually pretty good. Especially if you combined it with shoot twice from badmoonz or from the specialist Detachment. As soon as 9th dropped they nerfed that into the ground. You can't even take the relic SSAG anymore and the regular SAG went up a ridiculous amount of points. Late 8th early 9th we had Ghaz/Boyz Spam as a competitive choice. Our codex came out and boyz went up in price again, we are now 50% more expensive than we were. But that wasn't enough, so they also hit boyz with nerfs to all the stratagems that made them competitive, nerfed the ability to assault out of deepstrike, nerfed the buffs given to it by the Weirdboy by making them harder to use and of course slammed them with new Mob rule which is terrible while also changing the games rules to make hordes worse.

I am not saying other factions don't have these same problems, but with orkz, we tend to get our best stuff hit not with Ad Mech style nerfs that leave a unit still competitive, but with hyper nerfs that destroy the units ability to even function in the game. I'd love to say its just GW trying to push new models but even that isn't true. The Orkanaughts were garbage when they were released. Most of the buggies were garbage when released, the Beastboyz are garbage on release. Its actually a statistical outlier when we get something new that is competitive.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Tomsug wrote:
Addnid - yeah, it takes a lot and you want two at least


The second one is kustom made and ready to go, but I think it is better to have the actual model + kustom made ones, to be fair to an opponent who expects to play against "normal GW stuff", and see the size of our stuff. Kustom made stuff is good and all, but if none of them are the actual models, at some point it is not great either.

Never ever will I be doing a kill rig again, waaaay to much time and effort to do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
you guys really like to cry doom n gloom....this has been a cycle every ork release that whatever is actually good is gonna get slammed hard. Not even whats actually OP good, no just 'good' good.

I could easily see 2 of the buggies going up a bit because they do feel unusually cheap, but aside from that...the codex is fine... every codex gets a couple point tweaks in the CA here and there.

 Tomsug wrote:
Stop moaning. Drukhari “expect nerf very soon” two years already. The only they got is small balance.

And the new AdMech? THIS was broken like a hell and pop up few weeks after codex release. Improved Dakkajet is a piece of junk if you compare it to the original chickens etc. And those way the only that got something like a nerf, bud very light and gentle.

Orks are out since summer. The “broken lists” do not use the new models so people play it almost 3 months already. Are we top tier army ruining the tournaments? Well, look at the goonhammer stats. The best you can say is, we are in top 10 and definitely not top 3.

Moaning about ork player smashed down druhkari on SoCal? Look at the video. It was a combination of “anti drukhari list”, good luck and bad luck.

So stop moaning. Go, have a seat and enjoy the game or paint your killrigs


Its less "doom and gloom" and more like "experience". In 8th we had the badmoonz gunline filled with shoot twice Lootas. GW nerfed the stratagem Mob up so you couldn't do it anymore which relegated Lootas from being gimmicky but competitive to the garbage pile. Then they gave us the Relic SSAG which was actually pretty good. Especially if you combined it with shoot twice from badmoonz or from the specialist Detachment. As soon as 9th dropped they nerfed that into the ground. You can't even take the relic SSAG anymore and the regular SAG went up a ridiculous amount of points. Late 8th early 9th we had Ghaz/Boyz Spam as a competitive choice. Our codex came out and boyz went up in price again, we are now 50% more expensive than we were. But that wasn't enough, so they also hit boyz with nerfs to all the stratagems that made them competitive, nerfed the ability to assault out of deepstrike, nerfed the buffs given to it by the Weirdboy by making them harder to use and of course slammed them with new Mob rule which is terrible while also changing the games rules to make hordes worse.

I am not saying other factions don't have these same problems, but with orkz, we tend to get our best stuff hit not with Ad Mech style nerfs that leave a unit still competitive, but with hyper nerfs that destroy the units ability to even function in the game. I'd love to say its just GW trying to push new models but even that isn't true. The Orkanaughts were garbage when they were released. Most of the buggies were garbage when released, the Beastboyz are garbage on release. Its actually a statistical outlier when we get something new that is competitive.


Well you are undefeated with only very little of the stuff that is going to get the nerf bat (I haven't heard of kommados getting any point increase), so you should be fine Semper

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/26 12:57:29


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 addnid wrote:


Well you are undefeated with only very little of the stuff that is going to get the nerf bat (I haven't heard of kommados getting any point increase), so you should be fine Semper


Absolutely true! LOL. But i've almost always played counter meta to what everyone thinks is competitive.

But with that said, even I, Mr. Ork in chief, openly admit Kommandos are under priced, especially internally. A Kommando is literally a Boy with +1 movement, ability to take bomb squig, a 5pt PK, and in cover gets a 3+ save AND gets +1 to wound in cover. There is no situation where boyz are better and with all of that said, how much is a Kommando? 1pt more than a Boy.

Put it another way, 9 Kommandos with a Nob/PK cost 105pts 9 Boyz with a Nob/PK cost 100pts. I also think Boyz are too expensive, but Kommandos are under priced. Boyz should be AT MOST 8ppm, preferably 7, and Kommandos should be 11.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On an unrelated/? note. I am thinking about possibly trying a Trukk Boy Spam list.

3 Patrol Detachments. Each will have a

Warboss
9 Boyz (Nob W/Double Choppa)
9 Trukkboyz (Nob W/Double Choppa)
1 Unit of 9 Kommandos (Nob W/PK)
1 Unit of 2 Warbikers (Nob/Choppa)
1 Unit of 5 Stormboyz (Nob/Choppa)
2 Trukkz


My go to build for 3 Warbosses is Kombi-Skorcha/PK with Relic Super Cybork, Warboss with Big Choppa Relic Big Choppa, Warboss in Mega Armor, relic Da Krushin Armor. You can mix and match warlord traits/relics to your hearts content. The point being that this works out to exactly 2k points.

The main point is that you have 3 Trukkboyz units with 3 units of Boyz in trukkz with Warbosses in as well coming in behind. The first 3 go in and get stuck in 1st turn, the Stormboyz and warbikers either cap objectives, dakka or join the trukkboyz getting stuck in. The Kommandos meanwhile are absolutely getting stuck in turn 1. After they unload their troops, the trukks than serve as either over watch eaters OR objective holders. Its a modified version of Alphork Strike. All told it works out to 126 Models, All of them are T5-T6. Conversely, you could also switch up the position of a lot of the boyz to give them Evil Sunz and +2 movement for that alpha strike, but its a Meh upgrade at best.


Trukkboyz have a charge range of 17+1D6 + 2D6.
Boyz in Trukk have a 2nd turn charge range of 12+D6 + 5 + D6 +2D6.
Kommandos are 9' from deployment zone and have 6 + D6 +2D6. That puts them on average ON the deployment line for the charge.
Stormboyz are 18' movement +2D6 charge.
Warbikers are 20 + 2D6.

And finally, the one thing that is important to keep in mind, while a trukk is functionally useless (Terrible shooting, terrible in CC) it is a vehicle and CAN use ramming speed to get 3D6 charge with D3 mortals I have literally finished off Mortarion by ramming him with a trukk before Its hilarious and fluffy!

The only issue with this list is that its...boyz. They aren't exactly hard to get rid of,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/26 13:41:44


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Ramming speed trukk killing mortarion like type of the unit…sweet memories!

10500p and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

I think if Kommandos are going to be hit, it will be the PK going up to match the others. Maaaybe them going up a point each, but probably not.

I use two units of Trukkboys in my list, alongside two units of ten kommandos and two units of five stormboys. It's great for getting in early and tying things up, but overall doesn't hit terribly hard outside of the kommandos in cover. The infantry's job is to get into the opponents face quickly, block their movement and generally put so many potential threats on their doorstep that they're forced to deal with them while the buggies, bikers and characters do all of the heavy lifting.

I don't really care about the infantry, and don't think I've had a game where they've survived until the end of play. But as long as they do their job I'm happy.

I think if you're running boys as Trukkboys, then they need to be used as hyper aggressive speed bumps, tying up key units and preventing the opponent from scoring as much. I don't even look to win fights with them, just do enough damage so that the returning attacks aren't too much to weather and things stay tied up.

Boss and Nob Trukkboys are the ones to use of you want that first turn charge to actually hurt.
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





 Blackie wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


I don't. Make boyz, trukks, and gretchins worthy of their 9, 70 and 5 points instead. GW finally aknowledged that spamming cheap stuff is bad.


We’re orks, we’re meant to spam out cheap stuff. Gw ain’t going to make new rules for em anyways, so points drops is the best bet we have.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Blackie wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


I don't. Make boyz, trukks, and gretchins worthy of their 9, 70 and 5 points instead. GW finally aknowledged that spamming cheap stuff is bad.


Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Datasheet changes pretty much never happen after codex release outside of model refreshes and boyz already got their "new" kit. At best we'd have to rely on the 2nd Octarius supplement to overcompensate and provide upgrades of some sort that make boyz, grots and trukks more useful again but I feel like that artificial way of boosting them is just a skeevy way to make more money ala Viligus specialist detachments.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 G00fySmiley wrote:
`

my counter would be in what world is a gretchin better than a guardsman, conscript or cultist? it was play tested for gretchin to be 2 for 5 points they were barely worth it because they were not able to take actions like they went with, but at least they filled slots at 2.5 points per. at 5 points they should be given a inbuilt minus 1 to hit and be able to take actions. so they would be good for scoring and holding things down but still weak offensively with a crap save.

as for dreds i would always give it at least 1 claw to them, not having a claw means people will likely not fear charging it.


Oh absolutely agree that gretchin are worth less but honestly GW kinda messed up on many lower end infantry.....

Yeah, thought so on the dread, albeit a rocket dread would make for a cool looking conversion for my restarted orks.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

There's potentially still a place for dreads, but they're massively outshined by buggies, kill rigs, etc. If I were to use them I'd go for one of the following;

Klaw/triple KMB - Stomps round the battlefield taking potshots, abusing the Deathskulls reroll to avoid MWs. Still has enough attacks to make charging with it viable.

4 klaws or Klaw/triple skorcha - Goffs or evil suns, depending on whether you want it to hit really hard or get into combat a turn sooner. All klaws for ripping through hard targets, or skorchas for wiping out chaff squads or blobs of light infantry.

They just need a little something to make them favourable over the alternatives.
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Afrodactyl wrote:
There's potentially still a place for dreads, but they're massively outshined by buggies, kill rigs, etc. If I were to use them I'd go for one of the following;

Klaw/triple KMB - Stomps round the battlefield taking potshots, abusing the Deathskulls reroll to avoid MWs. Still has enough attacks to make charging with it viable.

4 klaws or Klaw/triple skorcha - Goffs or evil suns, depending on whether you want it to hit really hard or get into combat a turn sooner. All klaws for ripping through hard targets, or skorchas for wiping out chaff squads or blobs of light infantry.

They just need a little something to make them favourable over the alternatives.


Perhaps dreads get a 10 or 15 point decrease in next munitorum manual. Spam dem metal boxes

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Afrodactyl wrote:
There's potentially still a place for dreads, but they're massively outshined by buggies, kill rigs, etc. If I were to use them I'd go for one of the following;

Klaw/triple KMB - Stomps round the battlefield taking potshots, abusing the Deathskulls reroll to avoid MWs. Still has enough attacks to make charging with it viable.

4 klaws or Klaw/triple skorcha - Goffs or evil suns, depending on whether you want it to hit really hard or get into combat a turn sooner. All klaws for ripping through hard targets, or skorchas for wiping out chaff squads or blobs of light infantry.

They just need a little something to make them favourable over the alternatives.


Yeah, they're in a weird spot where they just aren't that efficient compared to their competition, ideally we get something that makes them stand on their own if we get Dred Mob rules eventually.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yeah i think its the weirdness that for some reason swapping a klaw/bigshoota for a skorcha/kmb costs 5/10pts more.
A triple/quad skorcha/kmb dread is unusually expensive for what it does.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

 Grimskul wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
There's potentially still a place for dreads, but they're massively outshined by buggies, kill rigs, etc. If I were to use them I'd go for one of the following;

Klaw/triple KMB - Stomps round the battlefield taking potshots, abusing the Deathskulls reroll to avoid MWs. Still has enough attacks to make charging with it viable.

4 klaws or Klaw/triple skorcha - Goffs or evil suns, depending on whether you want it to hit really hard or get into combat a turn sooner. All klaws for ripping through hard targets, or skorchas for wiping out chaff squads or blobs of light infantry.

They just need a little something to make them favourable over the alternatives.


Yeah, they're in a weird spot where they just aren't that efficient compared to their competition, ideally we get something that makes them stand on their own if we get Dred Mob rules eventually.


They're the same as a lot in the book; in a vacuum they're good, but there's other stuff that's just simply better or cheaper and the original unit ends up being "bad" because it's being compared to its competitors.

In this case deff dreads are primarily competing with buggies, Mek guns and kill rigs.

Buggies offer more firepower and mobility in a cheaper package.

Kill Rigs are faster, are absolute blenders and are twice as durable for just under twice the price.

Mek guns are dirt cheap, accurate and pump out a lot of damage whilst screening board edges or holding objectives.

If we got a Dreadwaaagh type rule that boosted dreads to a decent degree then they would 100% compete with the alternatives.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don’t see boys, trukks and Gretchin getting anything else this edition.
At best I see an army of renown next campaign book for beastsnaggas or dread mob. (Gw would be silly to give us a speedwaagh army of renown).

I think dread mobs are close to being viable with maybe something like +1 to wound army of renown on all walkerz keyword.
An obj secured specialist unit for killa kans with +1 hit ranged - in dread mob only
And warlord trait to call a dread waaagh on a big Mek.

   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

ObSec Killa Kanz would be sweet.

Even if the Dreadwaaagh rule was to make Deff Dreads and/or Killa Kanz Core, that would be great.

I would love to run a spearhead of nine Deff Dreads and fifteen Kans and it actually be viable.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Anyone else a bit disappointed with the rules for our specialist units?

I mean...besides Trukk boyz none really stand out. And the simplest solution to make them at least somewhat better would be to allow them to keep their Kulture. Trukkboyz as goffs would absolutely be competitive, Kommandos with Sneaky gits would be great. And the best part? They are limited to 1 per detachment, so you couldn't use more than 3 at tournaments which drastically lowers their overall value.

Look at Meganobz for comparison. Goff Meganobz get 3 attacks at S12, they get 1.75 hits (exploding 6s) each. If you make them "Big Krumpaz" they get 3 attacks each which averages.....2 hits, but at S10.

Same thing with Kommandos. Goff Kommandos get 3 attacks each, hitting on 3s wounding T4 on 2s, works out to 1dmg each vs a Marine. Sneaky gitz specialist mob gives them 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.3 wounds and 0.88dmg to a Marine.

Sneaky gitz is literally worse for you than taking goffs. But! if you combined the two it works out to 1.38dmg each

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

How do you get 1.75 hits from 3 attacks, hitting on a 4+ with 6s generating 2 hits?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else a bit disappointed with the rules for our specialist units?

I mean...besides Trukk boyz none really stand out. And the simplest solution to make them at least somewhat better would be to allow them to keep their Kulture. Trukkboyz as goffs would absolutely be competitive, Kommandos with Sneaky gits would be great. And the best part? They are limited to 1 per detachment, so you couldn't use more than 3 at tournaments which drastically lowers their overall value.

Look at Meganobz for comparison. Goff Meganobz get 3 attacks at S12, they get 1.75 hits (exploding 6s) each. If you make them "Big Krumpaz" they get 3 attacks each which averages.....2 hits, but at S10.

Same thing with Kommandos. Goff Kommandos get 3 attacks each, hitting on 3s wounding T4 on 2s, works out to 1dmg each vs a Marine. Sneaky gitz specialist mob gives them 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.3 wounds and 0.88dmg to a Marine.

Sneaky gitz is literally worse for you than taking goffs. But! if you combined the two it works out to 1.38dmg each


I guess Pyromaniacs is okay but niche. A lotta the time you'd want your burnaboyz or skorcha nobz in a freebootaz detachment so you'd loose out on that trait for a less swingy flamer output.

Same with Flyboyz, you get some durability but usually you'd want them in a freebootaz list to captalize on the shooting buff.

And even with those three you're always losing a fair bit to get an okay buff.

Also didn't GW change the math on stat buffs (Again!)? So that you multiply strength then add or minus?
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just want 7 point boys, 45 point trukks. Maybe a big drop on wagons as well.
And put the zoggin grotz back down to 3 for morks sake!


I don't. Make boyz, trukks, and gretchins worthy of their 9, 70 and 5 points instead. GW finally aknowledged that spamming cheap stuff is bad.


We’re orks, we’re meant to spam out cheap stuff. Gw ain’t going to make new rules for em anyways, so points drops is the best bet we have.


Not really, we have an extremely wide roster now so there's no need to spam anything. For example maxing out scrapjets and squigbuggies is wrong when we have 3 other kinds of buggies, koptas, bikes and squigriders for the same army concept. Rather than spamming the few best units an optimized codex should encourage to take a bit of everything. The Drukhari book is gold in this regard.

And our rules are currently quite competitive so we don't even really need points drops on the units that are already played . All those aforementioned units (trukks, grots, boyz) already see competitive gaming . On the contrary I'm expecting at least a couple of points hikes, for sguigbuggy and dakkajet. Units that need a points drop are nauts, kanz and flash gitz, which are never taken in competitive games.


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SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else a bit disappointed with the rules for our specialist units?



I played pyromaniacs burnaboyz in a trukk for some games, but replaced with trukk boyz after a while as they do the exact same thing but more reliably. Big Krumpaz meganobz are ok if you want them but don't play goffs or maybe deathskulls. In a full Freebooters lists for example they can find a niche.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/27 06:47:34



 
   
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 Afrodactyl wrote:
ObSec Killa Kanz would be sweet.

Even if the Dreadwaaagh rule was to make Deff Dreads and/or Killa Kanz Core, that would be great.

I would love to run a spearhead of nine Deff Dreads and fifteen Kans and it actually be viable.


It' s about the speed.
Either this units will shoot better and move slower than buggies.
Or get some kind of moving shenennigas to be playable as CC units.
Or get super durability sheneningas to play the role of TEQ units - hard nut sitting on objective. And than they need to have an obsec.

Slow CC unit without terminators durability is useless imho

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 07:56:30


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SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else a bit disappointed with the rules for our specialist units?

I mean...besides Trukk boyz none really stand out. And the simplest solution to make them at least somewhat better would be to allow them to keep their Kulture. Trukkboyz as goffs would absolutely be competitive, Kommandos with Sneaky gits would be great. And the best part? They are limited to 1 per detachment, so you couldn't use more than 3 at tournaments which drastically lowers their overall value.

Look at Meganobz for comparison. Goff Meganobz get 3 attacks at S12, they get 1.75 hits (exploding 6s) each. If you make them "Big Krumpaz" they get 3 attacks each which averages.....2 hits, but at S10.

Same thing with Kommandos. Goff Kommandos get 3 attacks each, hitting on 3s wounding T4 on 2s, works out to 1dmg each vs a Marine. Sneaky gitz specialist mob gives them 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.3 wounds and 0.88dmg to a Marine.

Sneaky gitz is literally worse for you than taking goffs. But! if you combined the two it works out to 1.38dmg each


Well, I don't play Goffs but Snakebites so for me they're all interesting .
   
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SemperMortis wrote:
Anyone else a bit disappointed with the rules for our specialist units?

I mean...besides Trukk boyz none really stand out. And the simplest solution to make them at least somewhat better would be to allow them to keep their Kulture. Trukkboyz as goffs would absolutely be competitive, Kommandos with Sneaky gits would be great. And the best part? They are limited to 1 per detachment, so you couldn't use more than 3 at tournaments which drastically lowers their overall value.

Look at Meganobz for comparison. Goff Meganobz get 3 attacks at S12, they get 1.75 hits (exploding 6s) each. If you make them "Big Krumpaz" they get 3 attacks each which averages.....2 hits, but at S10.

Same thing with Kommandos. Goff Kommandos get 3 attacks each, hitting on 3s wounding T4 on 2s, works out to 1dmg each vs a Marine. Sneaky gitz specialist mob gives them 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.3 wounds and 0.88dmg to a Marine.

Sneaky gitz is literally worse for you than taking goffs. But! if you combined the two it works out to 1.38dmg each


Yeah, it would also solve some of the issues of them not being able to board transports besides trukks like battlewagons or kill tanks. Frankly, it doesn't even make much sense for them to lose a klan trait in exchange given that they should be specialists within a clan, similar to how speed freeks can be part of any klan, even if its usually associated with Evil Sunz.

One of the ways they could make grotz semi-relevant is to allow them access to klan kulturs. Killa Kanz get a slight boost, we get our mini-transhuman Snakebite Grotz. If we can't have both a klan and specialist rule together, probably take out orrible gitz and replace it with the ol Grot Mob specialist.
   
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I don’t see a reason to play any specialist except orrible gitz just to make Gretchin obj secured…
Trukk boyz just feels overpriced and is less of a threat then regular boys but you can use them to make your troop tax for your turn 1 pressure list.
And that’s about it… I literally don’t even take the free specialist option in a detachment most times unless I take Gretchin.
I mean the implementation is better then last version and the idea is sound making a subclan that fits into a detachment that allows you to take other units that don’t necessarily benefit from the main klan but the majority of the subclans are so weak it’s worse off most times. They should have just let the unit stay within the clan so they can benefit from buffs and auras but have a different kultur. And maybe tweak a few specialist mobs so they are slightly better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 13:35:34


 
   
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if the specialists didnt replace the base klan rules then pretty much all of them would be awesome.
Its only 1 per detachment, so not like we can spam them anyway and most of them are highly situational. I mean, Trukkboyz only works once and even if they survive they arent getting back in the trukk to do it again lol

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They don’t need to stack with kultur as that may cause some unintended balance issues.

But the idea was sound… allowing a clan to take a unit that doesn’t benefit from the kultur usually like a shooty unit in a goff detachment that doesn’t really get a benefit from goffs. All I think they really needed was just to make specialist stay the same klan but exchange thier kultur to the specialist kultur this way all the auras and clan buffs still work but you can’t stack kulturs. A few slight buffs to some really bad specialist options as well and it would open up list building a bit more and allow GW the option to add more specialist options later and balance each specialist buff individually.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 13:41:00


 
   
 
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