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otakutaylor wrote:GW's biggest problem is if real 6th edition is an exact or exact enough copy of these rules that people now no longer have to buy the codex when 6th comes out, they can just play with what we all have now, (with minor edits if necessary).

The internet forums base is a small percentage of their overall sales base. As well, the ready availability of PDF copies has not really done much to sales in the past for them.

You get a heck of a lot more sales by getting people exicted about buying something BEFORE it's avaliable, than you do making it avaliable and telling everyone it's good afterward. I'm looking at you video game pre-orders.

God, I hope they go back to this idea. Although that hobbit rumor may be why they had to move away from it.

Agamemnon2 wrote:If these rules are fake, we've been handed a golden opportunity. Strip out all the GW stuff, reduce them to bare rules, and disseminate them. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but game rules themselves are not copyrightable or trademarkable, so we could take the rules content itself and reword them if necessary for release.

If Kenzer & Company can manage to do it with Kingdoms of Kalamar (and against the industry titan WOTC, no less), I see no reason why we could not do the same here.

I'd be totally down on helping with this. My first reaction was, "Hey, the INAT people could run with this!" but they would probably rather not due to workload/legal issues/conflicts of interest/etc. A decentralized, Tree House style of editing may work significantly better. If it is all fake, I'll take this rules set over what GW plans on releasing. It won't work for tourneys, but most (99%) of our games out here in Van are casual and we already have a great deal of buzz going over this.

Hehe, perhaps the spirit of the game will truly take on a life of its own now, eh?

pretre wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:You know. I'm sad about one thing, nothing has been done to curtail the melta suicide squad that I feel as really ruined the game. It's completely unrealistic.

Yeah, because people have never gone on suicide missions to take out high value targets in literature, movies, video games or reality.

Not at the rate they do in 40K. And not as boldly either. I mean where does IG get all these vets from anyway, if IG die by the waves would you really always use your vets for almost certain suicide missions? Rarely have I seen anyone with enough IG on the field at the end of a battle to even be able to field so many vets in the next game.

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:Concerning the "leaked" rules: Maybe I'm crazy, but I was reminded of playing in 2nd edition as I read through it.

Pretre has heard this one before, but I'm pretty sure that the missing pages 1-21 are Strategy Cards. Virus Outbreak, anyone?

Andrew1975 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:You know. I'm sad about one thing, nothing has been done to curtail the melta suicide squad that I feel as really ruined the game. It's completely unrealistic.

Yeah, because people have never gone on suicide missions to take out high value targets in literature, movies, video games or reality.

Not at the rate they do in 40K. And not as boldly either. I mean where does IG get all these vets from anyway, if IG die by the waves would you really always use your vets for almost certain suicide missions?

If you read anything regard IG in the fluff and books(aside from Gaunt's Ghosts), pretty much all the IG DO when attacking is suicide runs using wave after wave of bodies. They become Vets by surviving that a couple times.

So yeah, Vets making suicide runs with meltas is totally in character and fitting.

Absolutionis wrote:

Flashman wrote:So... fake then. I'm kind of relieved. Those rules actually made my head hurt.

Managed reserves would have been good though

Where are you getting this information?

I'm going by what reds8n said earlier. He usually has a good nose for this kind of thing.

Platuan4th wrote:If you read anything regard IG in the fluff and books(aside from Gaunt's Ghosts), pretty much all the IG DO is suicide runs using wave after wave of bodies. They become Vets by surviving that a couple times.

So yeah, Vets making suicide runs with meltas is totally in character and fitting.

This is IG basis, indeed. Any other modus operandi in a IG commander should be punished...

It's not like GW would ever admit that they are real, even if they are. Of course they are denying it, and saying that they are fake, they've done this sort of thing in the past like with Space Hulk as already brought up.

These are obviously not the finished rules, so them saying that they are not sixth ed is not a total lie.

GW are simply in damage control mode.

Andrew1975 wrote:Not at the rate they do in 40K. And not as boldly either. I mean where does IG get all these vets from anyway, if IG die by the waves would you really always use your vets for almost certain suicide missions? Rarely have I seen anyone with enough IG on the field at the end of a battle to even be able to field so many vets in the next game.

Nothing, even in the fluff, happens as much as it does on the table and certainly not in reality. I hate to break it to you but it is a game. A simulation. We don't have lasers, space elves or Space Marines in real life. Maybe in the far future, it really is worth trading 10 vets for a single tank.

Platuan4th wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:You know. I'm sad about one thing, nothing has been done to curtail the melta suicide squad that I feel as really ruined the game. It's completely unrealistic.

Yeah, because people have never gone on suicide missions to take out high value targets in literature, movies, video games or reality.

Not at the rate they do in 40K. And not as boldly either. I mean where does IG get all these vets from anyway, if IG die by the waves would you really always use your vets for almost certain suicide missions?

If you read anything regard IG in the fluff and books(aside from Gaunt's Ghosts), all the IG DO is suicide runs using wave after wave of bodies. They become Vets by surviving that a couple ties.

Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

Andrew1975 wrote:You know. I'm sad about one thing, nothing has been done to curtail the melta suicide squad that I feel as really ruined the game. It's completely unrealistic.

You can't disembark at cruising speed. AP1 only ignores the -1 damage for tanks, no effect on other vehicles.

Andrew1975 wrote:

Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

If they want to fix it, give units experience points. . .somehow.

Andrew1975 wrote:Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

Andrew1975, meet 40k. 40k, meet Andrew1975. I know you guys might not be familiar, but I'm sure you'll become great friends.

Practically every book about Imperial Guard is about throwing bodies into the meat grinder. It is what they do. What part of dystopian future in space is not clicking? The Imperium would throw vets away like that because life is the cheapest thing they have.

otakutay wrote:

GW's biggest problem is if real 6th edition is an exact or exact enough copy of these rules that people now no longer have to buy the codex when 6th comes out, they can just play with what we all have now, (with minor edits if necessary).

GW did a net release of 4th edition prior to printing and encouraged play testing and feedback.

Maybe this is the same thing, but with a viral marketing approach.

puma713 wrote:If they want to fix it, give units experience points. . .somehow.

Oh dear lord no. Then we'll all be grinding boars to get our squads up to snuff before going to a tournament and Emperor help you if you run into the guy who just plays 24/7.

Am I one of the only people who actually dislikes these new rules (if they are true)?

pretre wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

Andrew1975, meet 40k. 40k, meet Andrew1975. I know you guys might not be familiar, but I'm sure you'll become great friends.

Practically every book about Imperial Guard is about throwing bodies into the meat grinder. It is what they do. What part of dystopian future in space is not clicking? The Imperium would throw vets away like that because life is the cheapest thing they have.

Doesn't one of the rulebook intros end with something like 'whatever happens, you won't be missed.'?

Andrew1975 wrote:
Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

No, it's not. The IG fluff has been like that longer than the army played that way. IG were exceedingly static in 2nd and early 3rd despite the fluff talking about sending wave after wave of squads to their death.

pretre wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:Not at the rate they do in 40K. And not as boldly either. I mean where does IG get all these vets from anyway, if IG die by the waves would you really always use your vets for almost certain suicide missions? Rarely have I seen anyone with enough IG on the field at the end of a battle to even be able to field so many vets in the next game.

Nothing, even in the fluff, happens as much as it does on the table and certainly not in reality. I hate to break it to you but it is a game. A simulation. We don't have lasers, space elves or Space Marines in real life. Maybe in the far future, it really is worth trading 10 vets for a single tank.

Yes I know, as usual trying to crate anything that resembles a rational real situation in 40k is verboten. What was I thinking, trying to inject a modicum of reality in this game. God forbid we have some actual real life tactics.

I digress, PEW-PEW-PEW.

Andrew1975 wrote:Yes I know, as usual trying to crate anything that resembles a rational real situation in 40k is verboten. What was I thinking, trying to inject a modicum of reality in this game. God forbid we have some actual real life tactics.

I digress, PEW-PEW-PEW.

you're looking for the historicals forum. Try scrolling down the main page a bit more.

Billagio wrote:Am I one of the only people who actually dislikes these new rules (if they are true)?

*raises hand*

Tin-foil Conspiracy: This ruleset was made by one of GW's competitors. It was made to get whomever is left playing 40k really excited.

The plan is when GW actually releases 6th edition it will naturally be bad, piss off people, invalidate armies, and be so far away from this write up that the 40k players give up on the game and go to the other Miniature Companies!!

PP has been stockpiling miniatures in a secret bunker in St. Joeseph, Missouri awaiting the release.

Sorry I couldn't help myself with all the silliness

You know that on the table just because a model is removed from the table, dosen't mean he's really dead. It shows that he is not able to continue the battle so he/she may have crawled off to a medic or something.

Platuan4th wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:
Oh that's great. You're rewarded for surviving nearly suicidal battles by being given the honor of a completely suicidal mission. You know if you let them live a little bit they might actually learn something. It's a terrible fluff cover for a terrible mechanic.

No, it's not. The IG fluff has been like that longer than the army played that way. IG were exceedingly static in 2nd and early 3rd despite the fluff talking about sending wave after wave of squads to their death.

Yes they were sent in waves to their deaths, but they were not all hell bent to be in suicide squads is all I'm saying. That's what human bombs and penal legions were for, not your average guardsmen. They were to busy gaking themselves behind some cover. A much more realistic way to portray the situation. With mind you the same basic effect.

I think we should commit to official "yes/no" camps regarding the validity of this leak.

I propose the great The 6th Edition Leak Told You So Campaign. Choose your side! Are you Team True or Team Fake? Post it in your signature, let's just run with this.

I am also still on the record about the whole "Project Prisoner" rumor meaning that the box is Dark Angels v. Chaos Space Marines to take a fallen prisoner. If I am going to be wrong I might as well get on the record and be wrong about as many things as possible.

Andrew1975 wrote:Yes they were sent in waves to their deaths, but they were not all hell bent to be in suicide squads is all I'm saying. That's what human bombs and penal legions were for, not your average guardsmen. They were to busy gaking themselves behind some cover. A much more realistic way to portray the situation.

I'm not sure that you are at all familiar with the fluff.

Andrew1975 wrote: What was I thinking, trying to inject a modicum of reality in this game. God forbid we have some actual real life tactics.

This is year 40K stuff, space ships, psychic powers, mutants and aliens. If I want reality, there are other games.

Andrew1975 wrote:Yes I know, as usual trying to crate anything that resembles a rational real situation in 40k is verboten. What was I thinking, trying to inject a modicum of reality in this game.

I think partly their point is that the nature of IG's attitude to the value of experienced warriors is realistic.

It probably takes more effort and is less efficient to let a Vet live and retain him for special purpose than to blindly throw bodies at a problem until it dies.

Billagio wrote:Am I one of the only people who actually dislikes these new rules (if they are true)?

Yes.

I mean, you must be.

Oh yeah, that makes for a much better game, having our veteran squads roll on the Combat Excrement Table before our actions.