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Looks great to me! I want shadow spear mainly for the Primaris but the chaos stuff will definitely be used. I am thinking of either a Red Corsairs force or Iron warriors, in also slightly tempted by word bearers too!

Man, I wish we would just get a real look at all the rules from Shadowspear and the new Chaos Vigilus detachments. The wait is agonizing.

Seems to me like chaos is really winning this fight. Sounds like all the talk about the Imperium being divided into two sections may be coming true


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Virules wrote:
Man, I wish we would just get a real look at all the rules from Shadowspear and the new Chaos Vigilus detachments. The wait is agonizing.

it's just been a slow drip of news

Very nervous about the 'daemon-kin' nature.

My Iron Warriors would abhor the concept of mutated, daemonic infantry. Except Obliterators who are too far gone and valuable.

Daemon engines are fine.

I'm hopeful that "Daemonkin" is going to be the catch-all term for Possessed/Obliterators/Mutilators and not a codex focus of their own. Maybe the Chaos version of Primaris.

I think it is more likely to refer to a specific subfaction that will be getting detachment rules in the next Vigilus book, like Siege Breaker cohorts or Indomitus Veterans, which will give buffs to certain keywords and provide a couple of uniwue strategems, a relic, and a warlord trait.

might be some kinda vigilus 2 formation, pay 1cp the detachment has the daemonkin keyword... insert rules relics yadda yadda

 ph34r wrote:
Very nervous about the 'daemon-kin' nature.

My Iron Warriors would abhor the concept of mutated, daemonic infantry. Except Obliterators who are too far gone and valuable.

Daemon engines are fine.

Given the primaris mollywhopped chaos all over the galaxy in the indomitus crusade I think a lot of old guard traitor legionaries (the few that survived) are going to take a new look at chaos.

My Iron Warriors will be embracing chaos. Its just creepy techno organic sorcery is all. Nothing to be afraid of.

I'm starting to think the new obliterators are replacing mutilators too. They've got some bits that are melee oriented (Powerfists/Their Mutated Claws/etc). I'd bet they'll probably fill both roles at the same time instead of having two units for two roles.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm hopeful that "Daemonkin" is going to be the catch-all term for Possessed/Obliterators/Mutilators and not a codex focus of their own. Maybe the Chaos version of Primaris.

I'm thinking you might be correct.

I'm also thinking we might see updated Marine/CSM books with the Vanguard and Daemonkin stuff(respectively) added in.

I wonder if we might see any terrain with this round of releases? A demonic forge that's Sector Mechanicus compatible, like the GSC drill would be cool.

Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I'm hopeful that "Daemonkin" is going to be the catch-all term for Possessed/Obliterators/Mutilators and not a codex focus of their own. Maybe the Chaos version of Primaris.

I'm thinking you might be correct.

I'm also thinking we might see updated Marine/CSM books with the Vanguard and Daemonkin stuff(respectively) added in.

Those units have kinda been in a unique space between books, being able to benefit from both chaos codices. I wouldn't be surprised if GW uses Daemonkin as a new keyword to prevent some of that cross codex play. From what they've said about the new daemon engine, there does appear to be a theme of that cross codex interplay behind this release.

From a narrative standpoint with the wider incursion of the warp into normal space it would make sense that we'd see more possessed like csm emerging. I'd also bet there will be more than one type of possessed. The daemonic incursion is a way GW will give character to this period after the fall of Cadia.

cole1114 wrote:I'm starting to think the new obliterators are replacing mutilators too. They've got some bits that are melee oriented (Powerfists/Their Mutated Claws/etc). I'd bet they'll probably fill both roles at the same time instead of having two units for two roles.

I thought something similar. I also had the idea that as an alternative to just melding those two units together, what if the kit allows you to build obliterators and mutilators as we currently know them but if we also see GW introduce a new unit entry representing that next step up from Obliterators and Mutilators, something like as you say have both melee and ranged capabilities.

 aka_mythos wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I'm hopeful that "Daemonkin" is going to be the catch-all term for Possessed/Obliterators/Mutilators and not a codex focus of their own. Maybe the Chaos version of Primaris.

I'm thinking you might be correct.

I'm also thinking we might see updated Marine/CSM books with the Vanguard and Daemonkin stuff(respectively) added in.

Those units have kinda been in a unique space between books, being able to benefit from both chaos codices. I wouldn't be surprised if GW uses Daemonkin as a new keyword to prevent some of that cross codex play. From what they've said about the new daemon engine, there does appear to be a theme of that cross codex interplay behind this release.

From a narrative standpoint with the wider incursion of the warp into normal space it would make sense that we'd see more possessed like csm emerging. I'd also bet there will be more than one type of possessed. The daemonic incursion is a way GW will give character to this period after the fall of Cadia.

cole1114 wrote:I'm starting to think the new obliterators are replacing mutilators too. They've got some bits that are melee oriented (Powerfists/Their Mutated Claws/etc). I'd bet they'll probably fill both roles at the same time instead of having two units for two roles.

I thought something similar. I also had the idea that as an alternative to just melding those two units together, what if the kit allows you to build obliterators and mutilators as we currently know them but if we also see GW introduce a new unit entry representing that next step up from Obliterators and Mutilators, something like as you say have both melee and ranged capabilities.

IIRC and I'm going back a long time so could be misremembering, Obliterators originally were like this. Melee weapons (e.g. powerfist) were an option you could pick just like the heavy weapons. I don't recall when they first created Mutilators but I think it was after 3.5.

Maybe they will just get rid of the Obliterator/Mutilator split and make it just one unit again.

That's what I'm thinking. You get all the guns and melee options at the same time. Either the bare handed clawed fingers or powerfists.Maybe with certain gun options locked to one or the other. We've already seen they have different options for their hands and what's attached to them gun-wise.

Regarding "merging" Oblits and Mutilators: I'd love for this to happen. Mutilators just should never have existed : #giveOblitsbackthierFists.

Having said that, I think it would be bit unprecedented for GW to do this. I cannot think of an example in the last decade in which GW rolled out a new unit type, just to sweep that under the carpet as if it never existed (aside from Tomb Kings, but that was an entire line, not just a unit or 2)

before mutilators were a thing Oblits had a power fist option anyway, so its not much of a stretch to give that option back or just give them a power weapon equiv for CC.

biggest question would be how you go from ...

... to


are we looking at hooks and harpoons replacing the gun slots?

So daemonically Infused non-primaris primaris will happen?

yeah, mutilators where created for 6th edition, and where IMHO unnesscary,

Not Online!!! wrote:
So daemonically Infused non-primaris primaris will happen?

Let's hope so!

We've already seen they have a bunch of customization choices, and the newest daemon engine looks like a claw option for their hand to me.



edit: here's another one

 Crimson wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So daemonically Infused non-primaris primaris will happen?

Let's hope so!

Actually no.
I'd rather have seen something to represent the veterancy, or an alpha legion mass uprising then this.

Heck i would've liked bile making primaris 2.0 before daemonically non primaris primaris.

omg that old multilator, i actually cant remember the last time i saw one.

one of those 40k models that is both crap to look at and crap on the table (feb 2019, we'll see soon)

Given what the feet look like on the new Oblit, it seem pretty clear the Oblits are Chaos Centurions now, which makes some sense.
Centurions do have shooting and melee-ish versions, so maybe Mutilators are going to be retconned to just be melee Oblits? But regular Oblits get their power fists back to have GUNS/melee and Mutilators will have MELEE/gun

Either way, this new model NEEDS updated rules to match what it looks like. It cannot just be an Oblit as-is

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BrianDavion wrote:yeah, mutilators where created for 6th edition, and where IMHO unnesscary,

One thing I heard that I thought was interesting was that the Mutilators were originally sculpted at the same time as the Obliterators, but sculpted as additional Obliterator poses; when 6th rolled around they were reworked and all the close combat stuff was added. So in many ways they were an after thought.

Galef wrote:Regarding "merging" Oblits and Mutilators: I'd love for this to happen. Mutilators just should never have existed : #giveOblitsbackthierFists.

Having said that, I think it would be bit unprecedented for GW to do this. I cannot think of an example in the last decade in which GW rolled out a new unit type, just to sweep that under the carpet as if it never existed (aside from Tomb Kings, but that was an entire line, not just a unit or 2)

Agreed. The guy who can make a plasma cannon come out of hammer space... or his chaos meat pocket... or wherever should be able to T-1000 a power fist or power weapon without any issue.

I realize its different but probably the closest was when GW went from Space Marine veterans to Sternguard, and pretty much became a whole new unit with different weapons and options and relegating the two editions of Veteran space marine minis to being used as Sergeants or shelf queen Vanguard Vets on foot. Effectively killing that unit in favor of a new template.

Formosa wrote:before mutilators were a thing Oblits had a power fist option anyway, so its not much of a stretch to give that option back or just give them a power weapon equiv for CC.

Obliterators changed quite a bit between each codex. They were stronger and tougher with all the heavy and special weapons, and the power fist. They lost the toughness at one point. Gained all the other close combat weapon options. Lost all the close combat weapon options, retaining the fist. Losing the fist and losing the ranged weapon options.

Ughhh those stupid heads poking out - hopefully there is an option where thre is just a mouth - would look good then

 aka_mythos wrote:

Formosa wrote:before mutilators were a thing Oblits had a power fist option anyway, so its not much of a stretch to give that option back or just give them a power weapon equiv for CC.

Obliterators changed quite a bit between each codex. They were stronger and tougher with all the heavy and special weapons, and the power fist. They lost the toughness at one point. Gained all the other close combat weapon options. Lost all the close combat weapon options, retaining the fist. Losing the fist and losing the ranged weapon options.

So what you're saying is Oblits' rules are just a mutable from codex to codex and the unit is from turn to turn. Probably the fluffiest rules GW has come up with

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 aka_mythos wrote:
Obliterators changed quite a bit between each codex. They were stronger and tougher with all the heavy and special weapons, and the power fist. They lost the toughness at one point. Gained all the other close combat weapon options. Lost all the close combat weapon options, retaining the fist. Losing the fist and losing the ranged weapon options.

I can STILL hear the echoes of nerd-rage when the Obliterator statline was changed in the FAQ from T5 to T4(5)... then in the next codex they somehow just became T4. I mean, maybe the original ghastly Obliterator models were T4 because they were the same stature as a Space Marine, just 80% gun barrels, but these new ones are a step above even the (initially good, but now very dated) 3rd ed Obliterator models, so I too am wondering if they'll get a toughness/wound boost.

I bet at least t5 now ... and possibly +1w or more

 Raichase wrote:
I can STILL hear the echoes of nerd-rage when the Obliterator statline was changed in the FAQ from T5 to T4(5)... then in the next codex they somehow just became T4. I mean, maybe the original ghastly Obliterator models were T4 because they were the same stature as a Space Marine, just 80% gun barrels, but these new ones are a step above even the (initially good, but now very dated) 3rd ed Obliterator models, so I too am wondering if they'll get a toughness/wound boost.

The rage came about because Pete Haines said that the T5 was a 'mistake'.