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40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

But if not, it's weird unless they have some sort of a calculator (toughness = 4 points per point, plus strength equals 5 points per point) etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RoninXiC wrote:
I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?

It's for bonuses, some things will only grant these bonuses for keyword X, infantry keyword can go in transports etc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 07:42:57


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.

S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.

GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

Pinnacle? What about the Spartan assault tank?

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Thank you.

That doesn't seem too bad. The save could probably stand to be better, but T7 W8 is better than he used to be. Still, depends on the multi-damage weapons now render all those extra wounds moot.



It's a bit of a weird one. For anything that wasn't Strength 4 or 5, it's harder to wound than before which makes a difference (lascannons) but variable Damage means heavy weapons tend to be better against it than before. On the flip side, even if they wound on 5s now as opposed to 6s, having to get through double the Wounds means the Carnifex is either better off or the same against small arms fire - takes the same number of bolter hits to kill it, but double the lasgun hits thanks to the T7. If Strength 6-7 still sticks around a lot then that's another buff for the Carnifex as those now wound on 5s and 4s as opposed to 4s and 3s. The kicker is that those multiple Damage weapons tend to be much more expensive than they used to be, so I'd class it a sideways or slightly positive shift for its survival rate.

We'll have to wait and see how much its weapons are, if they aren't too expensive then the Carnifex looks like it will be in a good place. Slightly faster than before, has 5 Attacks all the time now if you run dual close combat weapons, the Crushing Claws look to be nastier than before with Strength 12 Damage 3, etc. I'm not sure replacing D3 S9 Hammer of Wrath with a 4+ mortal wound is a good trade, but it looks like Carnifexes might be the cheapest they've been in nearly a decade.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Rippy wrote:

It's for bonuses, some things will only grant these bonuses for keyword X, infantry keyword can go in transports etc


Mmmhh.. okay makes sense somehow. Thanks.
So if a unit is a faction A but not a keyword A it wouldnt get the bonus?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

RoninXiC wrote:
I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?

Also Strategems, certain Strategems will be for certain keywords.

 
   
Made in tw
Dakka Veteran





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.

S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.

GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.


Im sure (hopeful that) in a yeat or two we'll get Custodes style grav raiders that'll make current land raiders seem trivial both rules (and hopefully) model wise...

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

RoninXiC wrote:
 Rippy wrote:

It's for bonuses, some things will only grant these bonuses for keyword X, infantry keyword can go in transports etc


Mmmhh.. okay makes sense somehow. Thanks.
So if a unit is a faction A but not a keyword A it wouldnt get the bonus?

Depends on the bonus, but yes.
In this example below, the Lord of Contagion's "Nurgle's Gift" ability works on units with the Keyword <Death Guard>




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Carlovonsexron wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.

S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.

GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.


Im sure (hopeful that) in a yeat or two we'll get Custodes style grav raiders that'll make current land raiders seem trivial both rules (and hopefully) model wise...

This is another good point, I am sure they will release a Primaris style Land Raider that will have the stats the normal land raider "Should" (as seen with normal marines stats compared with Primaris*)

(*disclaimer, this is my opinion)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/30 07:52:27


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




soooo...where are those sweet sweet leaks that will lighten up my tuesday?^^ Esp. Skitarii and Cult Mech...or lets just call em AdMech should get some attention.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Carnifex






RoninXiC wrote:
I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?


Faction keywords affect list building yes, but also a few other things.

Transports are keyed by faction keywords, so only Tyranids will be able to board a Tyrannocyte.

Some stratagems will be tied to certain factions, but can only be used if your army is consistently made of that faction. For example, if you take Blood Angels with GK allies, you could use Adeptus Astartes stratagems, but not any specific Blood Angels or Grey Knights ones.

CSM have a special rule that gives them bonus combat attacks against units with the Imperium keyword. I expect to see a wide variety of similar rules that fulfill a similar purpose to the old Hatred or Preferred Enemy USRs.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Rippy wrote:
Pinnacle? What about the Spartan assault tank?


More than double transport capability, double lascannons, more hull points, tougher front armour. Yeah I think spartan gets the pinacle title

Wonder how they will do the flare shield in 8th ed. Or did 40k version have flare shield?

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah... thanks again guys. I never played 7th 40k so I am completely new to all this :x
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior





So, can anyone read Italian? Necron info:








10,000+ 
   
Made in gb
Grumpy Longbeard





RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah... thanks again guys. I never played 7th 40k so I am completely new to all this :x

I wouldn't worry about that; most of this is new to 8th edition anyway….

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eh, the Land Raider actually seems usable now. Before, you either sacrificed the guns to move or sacrificed the mobility to fire the guns. Now you can do both and its firepower doubled.

From what I understand using very basic math and rounding averages up, it takes roughly 6 unsaved Lascannon wounds to destroy a Land Raider assuming average rolls, which would mean you need to inflict about 9 Lascannon wounds before saves. To inflict 9 Lascannon wounds, as they wound on 3s you'll want about 13 Lascannon hits. Previously, it would generally take about 12 Lascannon hits to destroy a Land Raider - a third of them would strip a hull point and it had 4 hull points, but that's not accounting for cover (not that you could get it that easily for something as big as a Land Raider). Mind you, that's average rolls; the potential is there now to roll high on the D6 Damage rolls, just as the potential was there to roll a 6 on the vehicle damage chart and one-shot it. Basically, it's roughly the same against Lascannons.

I don't mind that at all, Missile Launchers getting a boost to their anti-tank role isn't a bad thing seeing as....let's be honest, how many Space Marine armies did you see using Missile Launchers before?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah... thanks again guys. I never played 7th 40k so I am completely new to all this :x

That's okay Ronin, key words weren't in 7th so it's new to us as well.

I actually did some research in to AoS to get a better understanding of how keywords work, and have followed along with the news and rumors as well!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MoonlightSonata wrote:
So, can anyone read Italian? Necron info:
Spoiler:








Now that's a spicy meataball!!

I won't add these to OP though, will wait for the English version

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:00:56


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oh, those Necron leaks confirm Gauss Flayers carried by Necron Warriors are -1 AP, not -2 as was initially said. That's fair, Gauss gets its anti-armor usefulness it had before and it can still wound anything. Way more balanced than entire army of -2 AP 13 point models that come back to life on a 5+ each turn!
   
Made in ie
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Ireland

So Quantum Shielding seems to be:

Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.

That is crazy good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:03:21


By the 37 keys of Tzeentch,We open the way for our brothers,
By the 1000 whispers of Slaanesh we call to them,
By the 12 plagues of Nurgle we fell their enemies,
And by the mighty axe of Khorne we cut open the world for them!

- Ritual of Summoning, Recited by Amphion and Zethus Dark Sorcerers of the Deimos Peninsula,Kronos


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
So Quantum Shielding seems to be:

Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.

That is crazy good.

That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

tneva82 wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:


Oh dang, all SoB can deny the witch - that seems good. It's not going to happen often, but you'll eventually roll 5's and 6's and deny low-end powers.


Low end that rolled low...I mean average for 2d6 is 7. He needs to roll 5 or less on 2d6 for 1d6 to be able to be greater...
.


I Played a game of AOS the other day, rolled in successive turns 3, 4, 3, 5, trying to get a target 6 spell off.... my opponents rolls were not much better. Its a bit of a meh ability but may be useful now and again - maybe their will be some bonuses from somewhere to the deny roll.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
So Quantum Shielding seems to be:

Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.

That is crazy good.


Uhhuh. Don't bother firing with meltas at them.

Though yet another example of GW changing style of wargear/weapon/etc from 7th ed even if it would be possible to have similar feel as before.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in ie
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Ireland

 Rippy wrote:
 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
So Quantum Shielding seems to be:

Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.

That is crazy good.

That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.


Doesn't look like it based on the Catacomb Command Barge rules. Gives an example and everything:

(for example, if this model receives 4 damage and rolls 3 or less the damage is ignored)

I will say though this is Google Translated so it may be missing some nuance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:07:13


By the 37 keys of Tzeentch,We open the way for our brothers,
By the 1000 whispers of Slaanesh we call to them,
By the 12 plagues of Nurgle we fell their enemies,
And by the mighty axe of Khorne we cut open the world for them!

- Ritual of Summoning, Recited by Amphion and Zethus Dark Sorcerers of the Deimos Peninsula,Kronos


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
 Rippy wrote:
 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
So Quantum Shielding seems to be:

Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.

That is crazy good.

That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.


Doesn't look like it based on the Catacomb Command Barge rules. Gives an example and everything:

(for example, if this model receives 4 damage and rolls 3 or less the damage is ignored)

I will say though this is Google Translated so it may be missing some nuance.

Okay thanks for that!

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?

Also, Celestine...is it just me or is she ridiculously good again? Gives nearby Sororitas 5+ invulnerable saves, gives out a free bonus Act of Faith each turn, has 11 effective Wounds - 4 of which can respawn each turn - and has a 5/6 chance of coming back to life with a full 7 Wounds, 2+ armor and 4+ invulnerable saves are now shared by her and her Geminae, her Geminae have 3 Strength 3 -3 AP attacks each that hit on 3s, Celestine has 6 Strength 7 -3 AP Damage 2 attacks that hit on 2s, etc.

She looks like a nutcase....AND she has the Character keyword so she can't be targeted unless she's the closest visible unit. Wow.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:13:58


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





'Straya... Mate.

Changed my mind, added Italian necron leaks to OP, as it reveals stats pretty well!

Thanks MoonlightSonata!

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Caederes wrote:
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?


There is a discussion re this on the Necron 8th ed thread - its interesting - it provides protection against powerful attacks but not weaker ones.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Caederes wrote:
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?


Well that's the ideal weapon. OTOH any dam1 weapon ignores it.

Against lascannon it seems to be about 40% ignored. Against d3 about 1/6 or so(note these from simulations. Didn't calculate exact odds).

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool rule and luckily the biggest model to have Quantum Shielding is the Ghost Ark/Doomsday Ark which probably won't have too many Wounds. Still, it seems to really penalize people who use Lascannons for anti-tank but not so much those that take massed Missile Pods/Launchers and the like. It's very weird. I guess it's to deincentivize loading up only on "really" heavy weapons? The fact that it's still random will balance it but I do feel sorry for anyone that thinks running an Imperial Knight into a Necron vehicle will work out for them Titanic feet ahoy!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:17:03


 
   
Made in de
Snotty Snotling




Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.
   
 
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