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40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in pl
Tough Tyrant Guard





soulforged wrote:
Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.

You can be 100% sure there will be new releases for Primaris. They are new poster boys for GW. If you want multipose models with many options then after starter box I suggest to wait for new boxes for starter units and completly new units.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:26:51


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save
   
Made in ca
Hauptmann





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.

S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.

GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.


This? This is better characterized (as best one can across different editions) as krak missiles getting a buff, rather than some kind of Land Raider nerf.

Krak has kind of been in a lackluster middle ground for a while. Due to average rates of fire, S7 is usually better at busting AV13 and due to the breakpoint, S9+ (or rending S6 and above) are better at dealing with AV14.

Krak was just sort of left in limbo, not being good against lighter vehicles and being insufficient for heavy.

Compared to 2nd Edition, the super krak had a pen roll of d6+d10+8 versus the lascannon's 3d6+0. Average roll on the krak was 17, average roll for the lascannon was 19.5. Due to the large variation in AVs during 2nd, this was actually pretty close (especially with krak having a better chance of nailing a max roll due to higher variance from two dice). But when AV got truncated and damage got removed, for 3rd's system, the breakpoints ended up leaving the single-shot S8 krak missile in a bad way going forward. Seems it was always outshined in each edition with more specialized weapons getting picked due to a combo of lackluster profile and price differences.

In 8th, it got a boost to actually be pretty close to the lascannon in terms of anti-tank capability (with it being basically equivalent where T5-7 is concerned). So in general, most tanks are more vulnerable to krak now, and that's fine.

Because while a krak missile now rivals the lascannon's anti-tank performance (though still comes up short on heavier stuff) we are no longer seeing, say, assault cannons beating either out for average armour penetration. Best of all, look at how meltas stack up now. Still kills faster than krak, but compared to how fast it could immolate a tank in 6th/7th, it is a lot slower to kill these days. And with transports getting pricier, it will be harder to deliver those alpha-strike melta squads that made vehicles largely worthless.

So basically, what you've noticed is a krak buff, not a raider nerf. Working as intended if you ask me.

Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save


Models without a save can't get save modifiers applied to them. So giving things a 7+ save means cover and other armour mods can affect them without giving them a save by default in the open.

So a 7+ becomes a 6+ in cover, and with most small arms being AP -0 that means they will actually get some use out of cover.

Basically, think of 7+ as the new unarmoured save. If a model lacked a save entirely, then no amount of modifiers could give it one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:33:46


 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Shadow Walker wrote:
soulforged wrote:
Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.

You can be 100% sure there will be new releases for Primaris. They are new poster boys for GW. If you want multipose models with many options then after starter box I suggest to wait for new boxes for starter units and completly new units.

Yeah, we already know about the Dreadnaught and some kind of tank (blurry pic a few pages ago), maybe a Predator variant.
Deathguard has also new kits coming, we've seen a few of them in the initial trailer for them.

Other factions already have Start Collecting! boxes, I'm sure they will stay around, maybe even will get repackaged with new rules.


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save


It's so they can benefit from the +1 cover save.
   
Made in fi
Pleasure Sacrifice to Slaanesh





Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save


this is done so that there can't be any discussion about positive modifiers to saves, for example cover. A +1 save to a 7+ would give a 6+, but you could argue that a +1 to a - sv would not grant any save.
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save

Maybe allows them to work with Save modifiers to gain a save after at least +1.
Similiar to AoS maybe, if a unit has Save '-', it can't ever gain a +1 from various sources. Only if they have at least a '6+', they can make a save roll.


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hm +1 from cover.
Good point.

Thanks.
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

Anyone notice a massive thing about the missions, you get the first turn if you finish setting your army up first.

Perhaps this is baked in MSU punishment? problem i see is it hurts hordy/non elite armies a fair bit... my ork army isnt ever going first,

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's a rule ported over from Age of Sigmar where whoever finishes setting up first chooses who takes the first turn, but in 40K it does seem to be a bit more punishing considering there's no random player turn order and shooting is so much deadlier. It makes sense from a thematic stand point and apparently lines up with a 2nd or 3rd Edition rule?
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User





 Latro_ wrote:
Anyone notice a massive thing about the missions, you get the first turn if you finish setting your army up first.

Perhaps this is baked in MSU punishment? problem i see is it hurts hordy/non elite armies a fair bit... my ork army isnt ever going first,


Only hurts some MSU, because lets say you have two 5man space marines in a rhino. that is one deploy. Then you can have some deepstriking double 5 man squads in drop pods. All of a sudden you have a very fast deploy but a lot of units, ie MSU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CovenantGuardian wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
Anyone notice a massive thing about the missions, you get the first turn if you finish setting your army up first.

Perhaps this is baked in MSU punishment? problem i see is it hurts hordy/non elite armies a fair bit... my ork army isnt ever going first,


Only hurts some MSU, because lets say you have two 5man space marines in a rhino. that is one deploy. Then you can have some deepstriking double 5 man squads in drop pods. All of a sudden you have a very fast deploy but a lot of units, ie MSU.


i would say this mainly hurts gunlines, more than MSU. Because they want everything on the table on turn 1 ready to fire.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 08:57:14


 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

Its pretty good for alpha strike armies too

Matched play reserve half your force so you aint deploying much and go first

turn one drop all your termies, drop pod etc death down 9"

 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





makes perfect sense to me, mounted or drop pod armies generally represent forces that would get the drop (heh) on their opponents, and should therefore go first
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




But at over 100 pts for a Drop Pod now, you're really paying for that ability. Which is fine, it makes it a choice, not a default way to play.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Caederes wrote:
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?

Also, Celestine...is it just me or is she ridiculously good again? Gives nearby Sororitas 5+ invulnerable saves, gives out a free bonus Act of Faith each turn, has 11 effective Wounds - 4 of which can respawn each turn - and has a 5/6 chance of coming back to life with a full 7 Wounds, 2+ armor and 4+ invulnerable saves are now shared by her and her Geminae, her Geminae have 3 Strength 3 -3 AP attacks each that hit on 3s, Celestine has 6 Strength 7 -3 AP Damage 2 attacks that hit on 2s, etc.

She looks like a nutcase....AND she has the Character keyword so she can't be targeted unless she's the closest visible unit. Wow.


Celestine is a bit awesome Seraphim with her will be 5+ Invuln, re-rolling.

Also it looks like you can use the Acts of Faith on her as well!

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 Red Corsair wrote:
Anyone else notice there is no more generic chapter masters? Oops

Tyranids ate them! Finally, Tyranids got to eat something. Something without name. Then a Bloodthirster randomly killed them all...
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






 l1ttlej wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Is it just me, or does the Riptide had an ability that gives it a native 3++, and a Nova Reactor option get a 3++.

If I'm not secretly blind and that is the case... oh GW .


Just remember... this edition has been "extensively" play tested.... So no this couldn't possibly be the case


Yes because extensive playtesting = no errors anywhere ever. Jesus.
edit: Oh and it wasn't actually true either. Nevermind...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/30 09:18:04


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




Italy

Still no rules for the Space Wolves? Come on
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Some IG would be nice too.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Hanskrampf wrote:
Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save

Maybe allows them to work with Save modifiers to gain a save after at least +1.
Similiar to AoS maybe, if a unit has Save '-', it can't ever gain a +1 from various sources. Only if they have at least a '6+', they can make a save roll.


Of course not like 7+ was needed in 3th to 7th ed yet - saves got 6+ cover...

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

Seito O wrote:
I smell heresy...or a typo

Or can someone explain 7+ Sv? xD

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLfUuHnfmoY/WS0SLE6HriI/AAAAAAABQIg/5cQntzHlksI-2z5kK_k53i7aFvh2ogHzwCEw/s1600/20170530_002744.jpg

Flagellants and Repentia have 7+ save

no, 7+ save is going to be common. It means no save unless they get a + to save being in cover. EG 7+ save, goes in to cover that provides +2 cover. they get 5+ save.

 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Caederes wrote:
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?

How is it good? Barring things which used to be D weapons, it's a huge nerf compared to the old AV13 it gave. Against a lascannon it's effectively a 5++, and against anything doing D3 damage it's a 6++. Considering how ridiculously fragile the Command Barge and Annihilation Barge are, I doubt this will help them live past turn 1 - they will just melt to autocannon equivalents.
   
Made in pl
Tough Tyrant Guard





Tyranids leak would be sweet
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eyjio wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?

How is it good? Barring things which used to be D weapons, it's a huge nerf compared to the old AV13 it gave. Against a lascannon it's effectively a 5++, and against anything doing D3 damage it's a 6++. Considering how ridiculously fragile the Command Barge and Annihilation Barge are, I doubt this will help them live past turn 1 - they will just melt to autocannon equivalents.


Because it's just been leaked... and we must overreact!! Argh!!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Through Google translation then a little applied common sense on the translations the powers of the C'tan appear to be:

Range 24

1: Roll a dice, on a 2+ do 1d3 mortal wounds.
2: Roll a dice, if it's greater than wounds characteristic (I don't know if it means base or remaining) one model dies.
3: For each model in the unit roll D6, for each 6 do a mortal wound.
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






So, based on where we are now, what kind of armies are we expecting to see? The detachments allow for all super-heavy, all-flyer, all-vehicle, all-monster, all-horde, whatever lists really. Are we entering an era where a tournament army is just 12 vehicles and no infantry whatsoever, or do you guys think there's something in the rules that we're missing that will force everyone to go balanced between infantry and big gribblies?

And I know Knight armies existed before, but a lot of people, especially casuals, hated them, and they were mostly the exception, not the norm.

Personally, I don't mind if an army consists of 10 superfriends, or 10 vehicles, or 200 infantry models, but if there's that big differences in style then the balance has to be near perfect for everyone to enjoy the games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/30 09:27:46


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




Italy

changemod wrote:
Through Google translation then a little applied common sense on the translations the powers of the C'tan appear to be:

Range 24

1: Roll a dice, on a 2+ do 1d3 mortal wounds.
2: Roll a dice, if it's greater than wounds characteristic (I don't know if it means base or remaining) one model dies.
3: For each model in the unit roll D6, for each 6 do a mortal wound.


It's the wound stat

antimatter meteor: on a 2+, closest enemy in sight gets d3 mortal wounds
time arrow: choose an unit within 24 and roll a d6, if the result is more than the wound stat of the unit's models, remove a model
sismic assault: roll a d6 for each model of the closet unit within 24 of the ctan, for each 6 is a remove
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 Therion wrote:
So, based on where we are now, what kind of armies are we expecting to see? The detachments allow for all super-heavy, all-flyer, all-vehicle, all-monster, all-horde, whatever lists really. Are we entering an era where a tournament army is just 12 vehicles and no infantry whatsoever, or do you guys think there's something in the rules that we're missing that will force everyone to go balanced between infantry and big gribblies?

My suspicion is that the top army for a few months will end up being Tyranids or GSC as people learn to adapt to assault being so strong. Then I think Eldar will take over again, because they always do.

In all seriousness, I can't see all vehicle lists doing well at all; vehicles are tough now, but their damage output is middling compared to equivalent infantry units and they can be locked in assault. My hunch would be MSU infantry bubble wrapping vehicles is going to be the way to go.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm at work right now, but if you ask for specific necron rules, i can sneak a translation here and there.
   
Made in pt
Skillful Swordmaster




The Shadowlands of Nagarythe

No Dark Angels love? Bummer.

"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws." http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/

 
   
 
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