Grey Knights Black Box in stores March 12th/ pics on page 12 onwards.

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**puma713**

bhsman wrote:Interceptor squads look like top-shelf jump infantry harassment squads who are outdone only by Warp Spiders in terms of sheer maneuverability

From what I've gathered, Interceptor Squads are only jump infantry in the definitive sense, but they do not move like jump infantry. Only that they have a once-a-game shunt move.

I could be wrong, though.

**bhsman**

True, might just be a holdover from the playtest. Even then, they could make a decent fire support unit before shunting away on turn 5. Also depends on how many attacks they'll have.

**ChildofChaos**

this sums up my feelings on the dreadknight

**AvatarForm**

ChildofChaos wrote:this sums up my feelings on the dreadknight

Good idea, poor execution.

Also, "Tactical Dreadnaught Armour" sounds better...

**bhsman**

Some details on the new codex from HERO's blog:

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2011/03/i-have-seen-it.html

Nemesis Force Weapons
Brotherhood of Psykers for Nemesis Force Weapon states that you take 1 psychic test for all models with a NFW. If you pass, ALL wounds caused by the unit count as Instant Death. Originally it was thought that you only get to blow up 1 guy, but now you can blow up an entire unit of Nob Bikers.

HQ Choices
The Grand Master is a solid buy because of the amount of weapon options you can give him. If you keep the default Force Sword he gets a 3++ invul in close combat. I'll get to other wargear options below, but because the GM has Grand Strategy and the Brother Captain doesn't, you will almost never take him. Draigo is a powerful choice and solid buy, but I wouldn't call him very cost effective. Crowe should only be taken if you want a lot of Purifiers, otherwise he's absolutely garbage. He's not an IC and enemy units charging him gets Furious Charge. If I take him, he'll be walking on every game through reserve.

Mordrak
This guy gets his own section because he's a Grand Master that costs 200 and can make any unit he join DS in on 1st turn without scatter. Not only that but he comes with Grand Strategy so you can apply all kinds of shenanigans. Mordrak no longer has to take Ghost Knights with him (they suck now, 40ppm and no Psycannon options) which means he can apply his First to the Fray to any unit he joins. Paladins anyone?

Strike Squads
Good buy overall. I can definitely see 10 of these guys with 2 Psycannons and a Rhino as the staple. Front-runners can take Incinerators, but Psycannons would be my weapon of choice.

Purifiers Squads
As predicted, these guys are the stars of the book. Ld.9, 2 attacks each with 2pt Halberds and Cleansing Flame is just amazing. They can also take 2 Psycannons for every 5 and you can take 10 dudes. That means you can take a full squad of 10 with 4 Psycannons and Halberds, combat squad them so you have 1 squad of better Purgation dudes that can actually defend themselves and the other squad can go hang out in a Razorback or something. Crowe can make these guys troops which is great.

Interceptor Squads
These are just Strike Squads w/ teletubby spikes and therefore they turn into Fast Attack. They're good as last minute contending units that can shunt 30" once per game, so they're good as long as you have a Grand Master that can make them scoring.

Purgation Squads
Good buy as always. Free Incinerators on 4 guys or Psycannons for 20ppm. Equip with a Razorback and you're good to go. I would personally always go for the aggressive Incinerator option but that's just me. That comes out to 145 with the RB.

Paladin Squads
You pay for every cent you put these guys in. Underneath that big bad internet hype lies a 2W Termie with a 5++ invulnerable save. The +75 point Apothecary UPGRADE also weighs this unit down in terms of price. Watch out for Demolishers and Vindicators..

Dreadknight
It's a good buy and effective unit. WS5, S6, T6, I4, 4W, 3 attacks, 2+/5++ and a lot of weapon options. The price of 130 is extremely cheap for what it does but if you want to upgrade it with the ability to teleport, be ready to pay 75 points for it. Personally, I'm not going to be picking any of these up because I have this little thing called aesthetic preference.

Rad Grenades
-1 Toughness to anything in assault with the bearer of these grenades. Yes, they do effect the Instant Death threshold. Yes, this does mean that your S10 Daemonhammer auto-rapes T5 Trygons. These little buggers change the outcome of every assault, and that's why they cost 15 points to equip on very select HQs (like Grand Masters).

Psybolt Ammo
+1S to Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, Hurricane Bolters, Auto-cannons and Assault Cannons. Use these to turn your Assault Cannons into Psycannons or your Riflemen Dreads into objects of extreme fear.

He also confirmed on Bolter and Chainsword that Interceptors DO move as Jump Infantry, so that's good.

**jcd386**

As far as i know the falcons give you 1 extra attack for using them. not 1 for using them plus 1 for having 2 of them. Either way i'm not really sure they are worth using...at 10 points for 1 extra attack, i might just buy another PAGK for 20 points, gaining 1 more attack and another body. Purifier squads might make some use of them for only 5 points, but even then i'd probably just take a deamon hammer...

As for people complaining about anti tank, even without using the las-monkeys, the availability of las/plas razorbacks, rending s7, 15 point meltaguns, mass s5 bolter fire, stormraven guns, dreadknight greatswords (s6/7 with hammerhand with rerolls to hit, wound and pen), and 10 point thunderhammers, I'm pretty sure they will be ok.

Rhinos and chimeras should die to mass psycannon fire (most lists I've been thinking about end up having about 20, meaning 40-80 shots a turn), and AV13 will at least kept from firing most of the time.

Av 14 will obviously be annoying, but can be taken care of. Monoliths can be ignored, russes have side armor + die in close combat, and raiders will either be ignored until you can close combat them with Dreadknights, or destroyed with lasplas razorbacks or suicidal inquisitor meltaguns...meaning they handle them the same way that other armies do.

Think about what most competitive armies bring...raiders, rhinos, razorbacks, and chimeras full of small groups of infantry...all of those things die to s7 rending and power weapons.

I personally see GKs as a sort of a mix of defensive and offensive army, moving into 24" range of the enemy and shooting them to death, taunting them to get into assault. If you assault them you have to deal with mass (possibly S5) nemisis weapons, but if you don't you'll have to deal with stormbolters and psycannons...hmm...what to do?

**ph34r**

How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.

**Amaya**

ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.

If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.

What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?

**bhsman**

Servo Skulls apparently reduce the scatter of DS'ing units by 1d6, and the Stormraven lets them get out without Scattering as well.

There's still the Riflemen Dreads to help take care of the Raiders.

**Amaya**

Yeah, but unless I'm missing something you can't put Terminators in Stormravens.

**ph34r**

Amaya wrote:
ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.

If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.

What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?

Melta guns and assaults have 24" range? WHERE DO I FIND THESE THINGS

(also l o l, nightshields)

**Amaya**

ph34r wrote:
Amaya wrote:
ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.

If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.

What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?
Melta guns and assaults have 24" range? WHERE DO I FIND THESE THINGS

Pyscannons derp derp

**Fafnir**

Nemesis Force Weapons
Brotherhood of Psykers for Nemesis Force Weapon states that you take 1 psychic test for all models with a NFW. If you pass, ALL wounds caused by the unit count as Instant Death. Originally it was thought that you only get to blow up 1 guy, but now you can blow up an entire unit of Nob Bikers.

Jesus fething Christ.

HQ Choices
The Grand Master is a solid buy because of the amount of weapon options you can give him. If you keep the default Force Sword he gets a 3++ invul in close combat. I'll get to other wargear options below, but because the GM has Grand Strategy and the Brother Captain doesn't, you will almost never take him. Draigo is a powerful choice and solid buy, but I wouldn't call him very cost effective. Crowe should only be taken if you want a lot of Purifiers, otherwise he's absolutely garbage. He's not an IC and enemy units charging him gets Furious Charge. If I take him, he'll be walking on every game through reserve.

The sword granting a 3++ just made the Grand Master worth it. Knowing that and the fact that he gets Rad Grenades would be enough for me to take him over Draigo.

Mordrak
This guy gets his own section because he's a Grand Master that costs 200 and can make any unit he join DS in on 1st turn without scatter. Not only that but he comes with Grand Strategy so you can apply all kinds of shenanigans. Mordrak no longer has to take Ghost Knights with him (they suck now, 40ppm and no Psycannon options) which means he can apply his First to the Fray to any unit he joins. Paladins anyone?

Mordrak's deep-strike shenanigans sound pretty amazing, but it'd be a tough pick between that and rad grenades...

Purifiers Squads
As predicted, these guys are the stars of the book. Ld.9, 2 attacks each with 2pt Halberds and Cleansing Flame is just amazing. They can also take 2 Psycannons for every 5 and you can take 10 dudes. That means you can take a full squad of 10 with 4 Psycannons and Halberds, combat squad them so you have 1 squad of better Purgation dudes that can actually defend themselves and the other squad can go hang out in a Razorback or something. Crowe can make these guys troops which is great.

These guys sound really, really dirty. They'll probably be the best unit in the entire book. Shame I don't like PAGK very much.

Purgation Squads
Good buy as always. Free Incinerators on 4 guys or Psycannons for 20ppm. Equip with a Razorback and you're good to go. I would personally always go for the aggressive Incinerator option but that's just me. That comes out to 145 with the RB.

Wouldn't a Purifier Squad be a better choice if you combat squad it though?

Paladin Squads
You pay for every cent you put these guys in. Underneath that big bad internet hype lies a 2W Termie with a 5++ invulnerable save. The +75 point Apothecary UPGRADE also weighs this unit down in terms of price. Watch out for Demolishers and Vindicators..

Rad Grenades
-1 Toughness to anything in assault with the bearer of these grenades. Yes, they do effect the Instant Death threshold. Yes, this does mean that your S10 Daemonhammer auto-rapes T5 Trygons. These little buggers change the outcome of every assault, and that's why they cost 15 points to equip on very select HQs (like Grand Masters).

The instant death threshold doesn't seem to be that important with brotherhood of psykers to do the dirty work for you, but just the fact that you'll be wounding more often makes them worth it. Does this just affect models in base contact, or any unit in combat?

Psybolt Ammo
+1S to Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, Hurricane Bolters, Auto-cannons and Assault Cannons. Use these to turn your Assault Cannons into Psycannons or your Riflemen Dreads into objects of extreme fear.

This'll be worth every point, methinks. But it does make psycannons feel more worthless than ever.

**ph34r**

Amaya wrote:Pyscannons derp derp

Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!

**bhsman**

Emperor and Malcador the Sigillite decided that the Imperium needs holy warriors just incase the Horus Heresy goes ill or all censored.gif gets messed up and needs fixing.
Malcador goes off and finds 12 dudes, 4 of which become the Inquisition and 8 of which are Space Marines, some from the traitor legions aka Garro + his dudes.
Malcador takes them to Titan and unveils Titan's SURPRISE! Fortress Monastery. It was shrouded by him all this time, no one knew..
He assigns the task for build the Grey Knights to Janus, the first Grand Master and gives him a hundred thousand initiates and then disappears.
Before he does, he shrouds the entire planet of Titan and Titan disappears from Saturn's orbit and takes a journey through the warp (ROFL)
Titan re-emerges during the 2nd founding with a thousand Grey Knights and starts kicking ass.

I vomited, regurgitated, ate it to do a double-take, confirmed what I read, and vomited again. Then I accidently flipped the book to Draigo's page and decided to leave.

Shoot Mat Ward into the sun. :(

**zipboom**

Amaya wrote:Yeah, but unless I'm missing something you can't put Terminators in Stormravens.

According to the GW sales blurb you can fit 6 termies in the GK stormraven

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140039a

**Lax35**

I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.

**bhsman**

This isn't Codex: Tau Empire.

**ph34r**

Lax35 wrote:I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.

Right, and are we playing Gundam 40,000 or Warhammer 40,000? I forget sometimes so please remind me! The answer will probably reveal to you why Gundams in this game is a terrible idea! :]

**Lax35**

Dude, you can't hate on Gundams......

But seriously it was a joke, but I really don't hate it. I feel like it's the stormraven all over again. Everyone hates the way it looks at first and then when it becomes available to use it starts to grow on them.

**ph34r**

Lax35 wrote:Dude, you can't hate on Gundams......

But seriously it was a joke, but I really don't hate it. I feel like it's the stormraven all over again. Everyone hates the way it looks at first and then when it becomes available to use it starts to grow on them.

I agree that some of the hate is probably undeserved. However it could have been a lot better. Time will tell how good it can be made to look.

**H.B.M.C.**

ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!

Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said 'if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

bhsman wrote:Shoot Mat Ward into the sun. :(

What the feth did the sun ever do to you?

**Amaya**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!

Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said 'if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone?

Well, you gotta make up for lack of cleverness somehow...

**Deadshane1**

There's still some really scary possibilities here.

You know those ML devs that are all the rage nowadays?

Rifleman dreads and Venerable dreads...max them out and you've got some units that are CHEAP compared to other stuff in the book.

SAFH Grey Knights

Some cheapo inquisitor
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, Plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Rifleman w/psybolts
Rifleman w/psybolts
Rifleman w/psybolts

>2000pts

-NO melta's deepstriking closby thanx to Strike Squads
-24 Str 8 shots and 5 lascannons at 48" range (that's right, BA's with FnP are cute)
-add in plasma/stormbolters/psycannon shots at 24" range
-trudge past all that lead flying at you and you're rewarded with Hammerhand behind force weapons....

....oh yea, and combat tactics so you can be shot at again.

I see potential.

**Kingsley**

I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.

**Deadshane1**

Fetterkey wrote:I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.

Well, the leaked codex gave them combat tactics...noone has said otherwise yet, but they're pretty well known NOT to be fearless. We'll see.

....I noticed the hammerhand/Force weapon thing after posting. I meant in an either/or context....didnt come out that way when I posted it though.

AV 14 pretty well gets wasted between 5 lascannons and a potential 20 str 7 rending if it gets within 24" of your firebase. I.E., move close to me and lose your landraider.

At any rate, this list 'could' be a decent starting point for a truly competetive Grey Knight list. Maybe evolving into something a little more rounded after playtesting a good amount of games.....

**KOS**

ph34r wrote:
Lax35 wrote:I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.
Right, and are we playing Gundam 40,000 or Warhammer 40,000? I forget sometimes so please remind me! The answer will probably reveal to you why Gundams in this game is a terrible idea! :]

Well now shoot me, but I'm going to use a Zaku II as a Titan. I have no will to spend 300 £ for a real one. I love them, but I love my money more.

For what regards the Grey Knights, I'm willing to wait some pictures of people who actually bought the models as it was for the Stormraven. In the first photos it was horrible, then a little more decent looking the real thing.

:\

I am just wondering what they are going to propose as new rules and models for the next Space Marines codex.

**Bryce-2-Good87**

Sorry peeps. Heading off to the African bush for a week so no internet. Leaving in 15min

I heard there is a way to get IG in the GK codex.

Is this true

Sorry to the mods but I dont have time to go through the threads and I need to appease my mind.

**Kingsley**

Deadshane1 wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.

Well, the leaked codex gave them combat tactics...noone has said otherwise yet, but they're pretty well known NOT to be fearless. We'll see.

....I noticed the hammerhand/Force weapon thing after posting. I meant in an either/or context....didnt come out that way when I posted it though.

AV 14 pretty well gets wasted between 5 lascannons and a potential 20 str 7 rending if it gets within 24" of your firebase. I.E., move close to me and lose your landraider.

At any rate, this list 'could' be a decent starting point for a truly competetive Grey Knight list. Maybe evolving into something a little more rounded after playtesting a good amount of games.....

Combat Squads and Combat Tactics are different rules-- GK get Combat Squads, letting them split ten man units into two five-man ones, but not Combat Tactics, which lets you fail tests voluntarily.

**jcd386**

I think it is definitely a strong list. Dread-spam usually is.

A bit of a side note: 5 lascannons is actually pretty horrible against landraiders. Assuming 4 hit, you need 6 to pen, so you MIGHT get 1, which will only destroy the LR 2/6th of the time.

The autocannons will only glance it, which might be helpful.

And, assuming the land raider is in range of all 5 psycannons, and you don't move any of the squads, you'll shoot 20 times, miss with 13/14, get 2-3ish 6s for the rending, meaning 2 pens and a glance. So, you might kill it, unless it popped smoke...then probably not, and even if you do, that soaked up a whole lot of your shooting.

Obviously mathhammer isn't everything, but can still be nice too know what is most likely to happen.

I would probably leave a few of the multi-meltas on the dreads, as it saves you points, is still a 24" s8 shot, and would take out AV14 much more reliably.

That being said, land raiders suck with how much melta is in most lists nowadays, so i wouldn't be too worried about them. even if the land raider does mess you up a bit, you will probably have destroyed most of their other units in the army.