Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Of course, if this Black Box release is anything like the Orc & Goblin one, all I'll be seeing is one random page of the Codex until release week...

The Orcs And Goblins Black Box had a full copy of the Army Book in it. Never has GW put a single sample page of a book in a Black Box. Where do people on this forum come up with this stuff? (that's rhetorical, please don't answer, I don't really want to know as the answer is likely scary, protracted and unnecessarily nerd-angry).

I will answer, though, as you seem to be under a false assumption of me. I KNOW the O&G Black Box had the full army book in it. However, the staff didn't let anyone look at it, and if asked they would tell you to pick a number between 1 and 112, and show you that page.

I know some GW staff who take it a bit too seriously, particularly with new releases and having to be hush hush (although forums like these give you heads up long before the staff do, Thanks Dakkites ) but looking at one page is stupid how are they promoting the products, do they expect it to leave their customers gagging for more so they have to buy the book on release day!

UltraPrime wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

Of course, if this Black Box release is anything like the Orc & Goblin one, all I'll be seeing is one random page of the Codex until release week...

The Orcs And Goblins Black Box had a full copy of the Army Book in it. Never has GW put a single sample page of a book in a Black Box. Where do people on this forum come up with this stuff? (that's rhetorical, please don't answer, I don't really want to know as the answer is likely scary, protracted and unnecessarily nerd-angry).

I will answer, though, as you seem to be under a false assumption of me. I KNOW the O&G Black Box had the full army book in it. However, the staff didn't let anyone look at it, and if asked they would tell you to pick a number between 1 and 112, and show you that page.

I wonder if that's store or GW policy...

I understand they don't want you to take it to a dark corner and photograph every page, but that's just ridiculous.

UltraPrime wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Of course, if this Black Box release is anything like the Orc & Goblin one, all I'll be seeing is one random page of the Codex until release week...

The Orcs And Goblins Black Box had a full copy of the Army Book in it. Never has GW put a single sample page of a book in a Black Box. Where do people on this forum come up with this stuff? (that's rhetorical, please don't answer, I don't really want to know as the answer is likely scary, protracted and unnecessarily nerd-angry).

Emphasis is my own. I think what BrassScorpion is talking about is what we'll see on GW's website, not that will actually be in the box (there was a random photo for a double page spread on their article when the O&G box arrived). This will be all I'll be seeing as well, I'm not going into my LGS to go through a book and get harrassed by the staff

I will answer, though, as you seem to be under a false assumption of me. I KNOW the O&G Black Box had the full army book in it. However, the staff didn't let anyone look at it, and if asked they would tell you to pick a number between 1 and 112, and show you that page.

I don't know what stores you go to, but that's simply bizarre. The whole point of the preview book is to let customers see it and I've never had any trouble doing so in any game store or Games Workshop store I've visited. The only time I've seen such behavior is if staff had an advance copy for themselves to learn new rules BEFORE the official customer preview date, like with the War of the Ring rule book a couple years ago, but even then after the preview date customers could see it. Black Box preview copies are specifically for customers to see as an advertisement for the book. You must go to a store in the Bizarro universe.

The Black Box with the army book/Codex is for use by the staff only (and some staff obviously take this very strictly). The preview army book/Codex comes later, about 2 weeks before release together with preview products. You are mixing up these two.

UltraPrime wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

Of course, if this Black Box release is anything like the Orc & Goblin one, all I'll be seeing is one random page of the Codex until release week...

The Orcs And Goblins Black Box had a full copy of the Army Book in it. Never has GW put a single sample page of a book in a Black Box. Where do people on this forum come up with this stuff? (that's rhetorical, please don't answer, I don't really want to know as the answer is likely scary, protracted and unnecessarily nerd-angry).

I will answer, though, as you seem to be under a false assumption of me. I KNOW the O&G Black Box had the full army book in it. However, the staff didn't let anyone look at it, and if asked they would tell you to pick a number between 1 and 112, and show you that page.

They seem like dicks. You need to find a FRIENDLY local gaming store.

Fafnir wrote:You know, no matter how exited I try to be for Grey Knights, GW's complete lack of hype or advertising has really stopped me from caring. I have a Raging Heroes Manticore on the way and I've yet to see anything that would make me want to set money aside for the GKs. And considering that the Inquisition is my favourite faction in 40k, that's kind of a big deal.

It would appear that you've been brainwashed by HBMC, who would have everyone believe (even in threads containing several pages of intense speculation about a rumoured new release) that GW's drip-feed approach to promoting new stuff doesn't work.

Kroothawk wrote:The Black Box with the army book/Codex is for use by the staff only (and some staff obviously take this very strictly). The preview army book/Codex comes later, about 2 weeks before release together with preview products. You are mixing up these two.

This is simply NOT true and I can prove it. EVERY GW store I visit puts out their Black Box preview items within a day or so after they receive it. And Games Workshop advertises on their website now when Black Boxes go out and in those adverts asks customers to head down to their local GW store and take a look at what's inside. Occasionally I've seen staff hold a book away from preview for a day or so till they've had a chance to familiarize themselves with it first before giving customers a go, but that's about it for restrictions. The Black Box items are for customer preview and GW actively advertises that on their website each time a Black Box goes out. What's more, many of the GW store managers I know actually ask select customers to build the models that come in the Black Box, especially since the staff cuts of recent years. I've built models for different stores and different managers on multiple occasions and I know many others that have done so as well.

There is no second preview copy of items that comes later. I'm in my local GW shops every week and the stuff that comes in the Black Boxes are the only preview items that the store normally gets. There are exceptions to putting stuff out for preview immediately, mostly for core rule books, like the new Warhammer Fantasy book last year or the War of the Ring rule book, but those staff-only copies were sent to staff in special packages, NOT Black Boxes, and employees had to sign that they had received special instructions not to show it to customers before the official preview date. Those exceptional circumstances are because GW wants the staff to know the new core system rules before customers see them so they can begin teaching people the new rules starting on the preview date. Those special staff-only previews go out weeks ahead of the usual preview schedule on which Black Boxes are shipped out. But again, these are exceptions, Army Book and Codex Book copies that come in Black Boxes ARE the customer preview copies.

Instead of filling up this thread with useless or incorrect and false information, how about we wait till the Advance Orders for Grey Knights go up on Wednesday and then discuss something that has a basis in fact and that is related to the topic, "Grey Knights Black Box to arrive in stores March 12th"? And yes, I'll be looking at the Black Box preview items as soon as they arrive in my local GW stores just like I looked at recent Skaven, Dark Eldar, and Orcs And Goblin Black Box previews.

Here's some pictures of existing Marine models repainted in the GK theme from the GW site, discovered by Sephiroth from Warseer:

Looks quite nice actually, with the blue wash over the silver. Realy I am so stoked for the release.

I do wish they'd make a librarian in GK style terminator armour though, instead of the bulky regular one shown above.

You might be able to sculpt a helmet.

You wouldn't have to do any work to 'make a Librarian in GK style Terminator armour".

GK armour has the psychic hood built into their helmets.

Just confirmed that I am recieving the Black Box this week, with models and codex. I can post a list of the models on Wednesday. I'll probably have codex and models in hand thursday.

mikhaila wrote:Just confirmed that I am recieving the Black Box this week, with models and codex. I can post a list of the models on Wednesday. I'll probably have codex and models in hand thursday.

Awesome.

Looks like I am going to start grey knights!

Jaon wrote:I was under the impression the DK was relatively small (compared to say, a trygon) anyway.

Ummm... How were you under this impression?

Looking at this picture:



It's easily 1 1/2x the size of a Land Raider in height, which puts it firmly in Trygon size territory.

Assuming those chibi-hawks or on their flying base, it looks like the Dreadknight is as tall as a flying base, which definitely makes it Trygon size.

The "Dreadknight" is also clearly taller than the Land Raiders in that photo. Someone here already declared me the winner on the issue of Dreadknight size after the photos finally leaked out. Surely there must be something else to argue about now? I'm sure starting Wednesday the focus of animosity and or doubt will be on prices, the look of the new models, etc. LOL.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:The Black Box with the army book/Codex is for use by the staff only (and some staff obviously take this very strictly). The preview army book/Codex comes later, about 2 weeks before release together with preview products. You are mixing up these two.

This is simply NOT true and I can prove it. EVERY GW store I visit puts out their Black Box preview items within a day or so after they receive it.

That's not a proof obviously.

1.) Not all stores get Black Boxes, only GW stores and a selected number of independent stores. Believe me that the latter also can buy a preview package including the Codex/army book and two or three new items at a discount. Ask people from less priviledged stores if they only see the book on release day or 2 weeks earlier

2.) My local store get's the Black Box AND the preview package. Of course it is customer friendly to only take minimum time for reading the book and then putting it into the store as preview copy, but internal training of staff (and giving staff time to build all models) is the prime reasoning behind the Black Box..

It may be Trigon tall but it looks like a Dread on stilts to me.

That's not a proof obviously.

1.) Not all stores get Black Boxes, only GW stores and a selected number of independent stores. Believe me that the latter also can buy a preview package including the Codex/army book and two or three new items at a discount. Ask people from less priviledged stores if they only see the book on release day or 2 weeks earlier

2.) My local store get's the Black Box AND the preview package. Of course it is customer friendly to only take minimum time for reading the book and then putting it into the store as preview copy, but internal training of staff (and giving staff time to build all models) is the prime reasoning behind the Black Box..

The stores that don't get "Black Boxes" aren't an issue in this discussion. The discussion was about whether or not Black Box previews are for customers to look at and nothing else. I supplied unarguable evidence that proved my point and that proved it was incorrect when you said customers don't get to see Black Boxes and a whole bunch of other erroneous statements. Case closed.

Kroothawk wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:The Black Box with the army book/Codex is for use by the staff only (and some staff obviously take this very strictly). The preview army book/Codex comes later, about 2 weeks before release together with preview products. You are mixing up these two.

This is simply NOT true and I can prove it. EVERY GW store I visit puts out their Black Box preview items within a day or so after they receive it.

That's not a proof obviously.

1.) Not all stores get Black Boxes, only GW stores and a selected number of independent stores. Believe me that the latter also can buy a preview package including the Codex/army book and two or three new items at a discount. Ask people from less priviledged stores if they only see the book on release day or 2 weeks earlier

2.) My local store get's the Black Box AND the preview package. Of course it is customer friendly to only take minimum time for reading the book and then putting it into the store as preview copy, but internal training of staff (and giving staff time to build all models) is the prime reasoning behind the Black Box..

Must be a German/European thing, because it works exactly like BrassScorpion stated over here in the UK.


Of course I have known various GW staff to take a "Haha I've got the book, you can't see it, you can't see it nee naw" approach, which is quite frankly childish and utterly baffling.

Of course I have known various GW staff to take a "Haha I've got the book, you can't see it, you can't see it nee naw" approach, which is quite frankly childish and utterly baffling.

That would also clearly be contrary to what their employer wants them to do with the items. Those items are a form of advertising an employee of GW no good to do that. I don't think any one-man store operators will be doing that "hide the Black Box" thing, they have bonuses tied to total yearly sales. Advertising preview items by showing them off is very good for them and GW. It's also just simple good customer service.

Look, I didn't jump into this Black Box issue because I like arguing with strangers, I despise that part of these forums. What I despise nearly as much though is the misinformation, misconceptions, and irrational attacks based on bad information and occasional outright lies posted here. Does GW do some things that are questionable at times? Yes. Do they make mistakes, honest and occasionally otherwise? Yes. But I'm sick of seeing all the ridiculous attacks based on bad information and the problem is getting worse. Let's save the criticisms for negative occurrences based on fact, not hearsay, rumors or distortions of how things actually work.

Far as I'm concerned, I can usually order a black box at the first of the month, with a selection of new sprues and a codex. I'm free to show them off as soon as I get them.

It definately looks like the Dreadknight is about a Space Marine taller than a Land Raider. By my calculations, that is about 4 inches tall. That's pretty big as a Dreadnought is less than 3.

BrassScorpion wrote:The stores that don't get "Black Boxes" aren't an issue in this discussion. The discussion was about whether or not Black Box previews are for customers to look at and nothing else. I supplied unarguable evidence that proved my point and that proved it was incorrect when you said customers don't get to see Black Boxes and a whole bunch of other erroneous statements. Case closed.

Seems like your store owner doesn't tell you internals. It works like this:

1.) The Black Boxes are send to the stores so that staff can read through the material BEFORE the customers and can build preview models for the store. Some store managers put the Codex/army book into the store after one or two days of reading, because it makes sense and the original purpose is served. The sprues are for the staff to build (only they normally have access to the assembly instructions) so that the store has build models at release, but again some store managers can inofficially delegate this task to a customer. This is tolerated by GW management but not intended.

2.) Two or three weeks before release, all shops (including non-GW shops not getting the Black Box) can order a special preview package including a fixed set of Codex/army book and usually 2-3 new products. While the Black Box is free, this package is at a discount but not free. No store is forced to buy this, but the package is officially called the preview package.

This is how it works in Europe (which included UK the last time I checked ) and supposedly everywhere. And I have access to the internal information.

Saying that all stores you know matter and all stores I know don't matter and that your arguments are unarguable because you say so and that doubting your infallacy is not tolerated, is childish and not approved by logic rules.

OK, folks, let's put the Black Boxes back in our pants.

We're talking Grey Knights here; if you'd like to continue to debate Black Boxes, please take it to the Off-Topic forum.

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting another 3+/2+ army; makes kitting out my armies that much easier to do.

Earthbeard wrote:Must be a German/European thing, because it works exactly like BrassScorpion stated over here in the UK.

It has always worked exactly that way in the Netherlands/at my local GW as well. As soon as the Black Box hits the store the customers are welcome to check out the codex & whatever other stuff is in it.