Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Bit gutted about the campaign rules. Stat limitation and reduced injury table I don't mind, keep in mind there is still the skill tables.
Looking at the roster, it would seem you need to complete 3 missions to level up? Seeing how you can only progress one guy per mission this will probably slow advancement compared to Necromunda, main difference is that its linear.
I'll have to play a few games to see how it goes.

So the other part I've seen from facebook is that the Promethium Caches pretty much replaces territory, collect 15 to win the campaign, you can spend 1 to hire a special operative.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
WD says $180Cdn

Weird, there's definitely some confusion within GW then

If that box is $130...fffffffffff.

$97.5 with 25% discount from online retailer is pretty freakin good!!!
However I'm going to pick up a hemotrope reactor as well soooo....

I'm going to have to wait and see how the simplified progression system works. Simplified injury table isn't bad as some of the minutia of that stuff works well for ragtag gangs, but can you honestly imagine your Skitarii Ranger with an eye injury? They'd have a servitor plucking that out and slapping in a bionic in no time. Doesn't really make sense for 40k factions to be strapped for cash and suffering from minor injuries like that. None of that or the stat caps are too troubling. The rest I think is worth playing some games before judging. I don't need this to be a total carbon copy of Necromunda if it is fun.

Hopefully the leveling is done well though. I think that will be the key to whether it works to be less random, cause the dice can curse you badly when relying on chance to advance. But having a predetermined 3 missions, regardless of wounding hits or other factors could feel like a grind and you just need to play through games to rank up. In other words, I hope they don't go the FPS video game route for grinding progression.

 Starfarer wrote:
I'm going to have to wait and see how the simplified progression system works. Simplified injury table isn't bad as some of the minutia of that stuff works well for ragtag gangs, but can you honestly imagine your Skitarii Ranger with an eye injury? They'd have a servitor plucking that out and slapping in a bionic in no time. Doesn't really make sense for 40k factions to be strapped for cash and suffering from minor injuries like that. None of that or the stat caps are too troubling. The rest I think is worth playing some games before judging. I don't need this to be a total carbon copy of Necromunda if it is fun.

Hopefully the leveling is done well though. I think that will be the key to whether it works to be less random, cause the dice can curse you badly when relying on chance to advance. But having a predetermined 3 missions, regardless of wounding hits or other factors could feel like a grind and you just need to play through games to rank up. In other words, I hope they don't go the FPS video game route for grinding progression.

That's it... I also don't see prisoner exchanges being much of a thing either =D

A simpler Campaign rules may also make it easier to do a campaign map set up (was always annoying in necro when doing a map and having people 'find' new territory)

I'd imagine the missions will be different.

And yes, not having an extensive injury chart is fine, especially given it's Notcromunda not Necromunda where such lingering injuries fit the style of the game a bit more.

But advancement for one person over an arbitrary 3 game limit? Why even do it that way?

link to quick references for the game:
http://imgur.com/a/7FVNg
Looks pretty much the same including hand to hand rules.
Looks like Terminators are in with the old 3+ on 2D6 armour save, but with a 5+ invulnerable! That sounds pretty scary.

Looks good so far.

Just noticing that Ammo rolls have changed, instead of a say 4+ on a D6 its roll a 5+ on 2d6.

Which makes sense... these are army mens fighting in a warzone.. not poor gangers fighting in slums

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd imagine the missions will be different.

And yes, not having an extensive injury chart is fine, especially given it's Notcromunda not Necromunda where such lingering injuries fit the style of the game a bit more.

But advancement for one person over an arbitrary 3 game limit? Why even do it that way?

Well we don't know what it entails and people are going off a intro guide shown at GAMA which had preprinted rosters that had three slots I believe. Could be there are objectives in each mission that count towards upgrade. So maybe wounding hit, or complete a mission objective, etc. are each one advancement point and with 3 you get an upgrade roll.

That's what would make the most sense to me, but that doesn't make it so. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Thanks for sharing the quick reference sheet, gives us a good idea of what to expect.

Zachectomy wrote:
Any news on the "new ork buggies"? And if this is no longer the thread to post about them, should I create one?

If you don't have any news to post, you definitely shouldn't be opening a new thread in News & Rumors.

I like that the new ammo roll is 2d6, means some weapons are alot more reliable

Check out this video "Shadow War Armageddon Rules Review and PLAYTEST!" http://www.twitch.tv/thedroppodcast/v/131947237?sr=a&t=0s

Sat down with kill team sheets for Tau and Grey Knights. Will be doing full actual games tomorrow. Some people may not have seen the stats for army lists, so, we threw together Jill teams ND navigated the rules reference and army sheets the best we could.

 Dravis wrote:
Bit gutted about the campaign rules. Stat limitation and reduced injury table I don't mind, keep in mind there is still the skill tables.
Looking at the roster, it would seem you need to complete 3 missions to level up? Seeing how you can only progress one guy per mission this will probably slow advancement compared to Necromunda, main difference is that its linear.
I'll have to play a few games to see how it goes.

So the other part I've seen from facebook is that the Promethium Caches pretty much replaces territory, collect 15 to win the campaign, you can spend 1 to hire a special operative.

Well if the campaign rules are gutted, you can always revert to the necromunda one, i think there is still a living rule book i think.

I like the new Ammo Roll rules. That explains the 7+'s we saw (I thought they'd be the old roll a 6, then roll a 4+, as perhaps a better alternative to the 'Auto-fail' rules from before, but I like this better).

The Skitarii weapons make way more sense now. 5+ on 2D6 is significantly easier than 5+ on 1D6.

And 2D6 saves on Terminators! WOOO!

Yup.

Really looking forward to giving this a whirl. As the games should be a lot shorter, I'm hoping it'll prove a practical alternative to 40k for me to play the club. Given I'm up at 5:30am and home around 7:00pm weekdays, any game which can be done and dusted in around an hour will fit this lifestyle!

Plus, I don't need to buy any new models, as I'll simply field my Skitarii. Or possibly my Genestealer Cult (well, I say it's a Cult. It's more of a small Lodge or Club House. May an avid Fan Group. Contents of Overkill, plus an additional box of each Acolyte type)

Reckon we're all competent enough to up the complexity of the post game sequence as we wish - what's important is that we have fixed Gang costs to kick off with. Simply agree which Necromunda we're lifting it from, and off we go (though given the wider range of races, the 'one pip limit' to star advances aren't such a bad idea)

Yup, it's not like the campaign rules are difficult to include if you want to have your gangs spiral out of control for the full Necromunda experience.

D6 for surviving, 5 for a kill, 10 for leader if he wins.

Start leaders and specialists on 60 + d6, normal guys on 20 + d6 and the me recruits on.... well, they should probably be 10 because they aren't as bad as juves That start on 0

Use the old injury table.


I'll be using the new version. Necromunda breaks down into unfunness once all your guys become walking death machines.

Less to track, less chance of one gang spiraling out of control and dominating a campaign easily and a goal for the campaign. All good things for what should be the introduction to the 40k universe that new players should experience.

Oh man the auto-correct is strong

"Squid-hide armor", I suspect that should be Squig.

Nope. It's a special stealth armour to prevent people noticing you're carrying Cephalopods to war.

And by people, I mean your commanding officer. Who's had quite enough of your non-sequiturs thank you very much.

 CardBoardKing wrote:
Check out this video "Shadow War Armageddon Rules Review and PLAYTEST!" http://www.twitch.tv/thedroppodcast/v/131947237?sr=a&t=0s

Sat down with kill team sheets for Tau and Grey Knights. Will be doing full actual games tomorrow. Some people may not have seen the stats for army lists, so, we threw together Jill teams ND navigated the rules reference and army sheets the best we could.

So, you have access tot he rules? Are Sisters in?

Thanks CardBoardKing for the video, very brave to play a game with only the quick reference guides.
The Storm Bolter is listed under special weapons by the way, you could've had fun with the sustained fire dice

Thinking about the campaign rules, simplifying them down sounds like a good idea, xp might be too much though.

Not sure I like Special operatives all having the same hire value (1 Promethium Cache). I think adapting some of Mordheim's warp stone rules might be a good idea, like selling the cache for x amount of credits, then fixing a hire value to various operatives.

Is it just me, or do orks seem very weak in this?

BS 2 and at least -1 to hit with most shots is pretty bad. Marine scouts presumably get BS 4 and bolt weapons seem to get +1 to hit compared to the 'equivalent' ork weapons. So shots that the scouts are making on say a 4+ the orks need a 6+ followed by a 4+. So the marines probably hit about four to six times as often as the orks with shooting.

Close combat is a little better, but only a little. The extra attack an ork gets isn't a great bonus with these rules. At least Initiative seems less important.

All this would be fine if orks can field two or three times as many models, but the box contents seems to imply that orks and scouts are considered roughly equal in value.

There is the bit on the Genestealer cult saying the cult get free models in any scenarios the Orks would do. So that probably helps a bit.

Necromunda was always hugely in favour of ranged gangs though

so heres a question, and maybe this speaks to me not understandin how all this save mod stuff works:

Flak Armor is a 6+ save, and gives 5+ against weapons that use blasts and templates. But when I go to look at a basic flamer, it's got a -2 save mod! Wouldn't that 5+ be useless anyway?

Save mods seem really REALLY strong compared to normal armor saves tbh, and that's got me worried. I mean, shoot a flamer at a model wearing terminator armor and he's got a 5+ save on 2d6? That's so wimpy!

EDIT: if I'm reading the melee rules correctly, a S4 space marine holding a chainsword lowers a terminators armor save to a six! Really??

is there a mechanic I'm missing that raises a model's armor save? If not, why do -5sv weapons exist in a game with only 3+ saves?

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it just me, or do orks seem very weak in this?

BS 2 and at least -1 to hit with most shots is pretty bad. Marine scouts presumably get BS 4 and bolt weapons seem to get +1 to hit compared to the 'equivalent' ork weapons. So shots that the scouts are making on say a 4+ the orks need a 6+ followed by a 4+. So the marines probably hit about four to six times as often as the orks with shooting.

Close combat is a little better, but only a little. The extra attack an ork gets isn't a great bonus with these rules. At least Initiative seems less important.

All this would be fine if orks can field two or three times as many models, but the box contents seems to imply that orks and scouts are considered roughly equal in value.

The battle report in the April WD pits a 5 man Scout squad and 10 man guard squad against 2 x 10/11 ork squads so this would suggest the equivalent value is roughly 2 orks per scout.

I think the box contents are more to do with the sniper and bolter/shotgun scouts being on separate sprues, so require a full 10 scouts to enable all the options to be available.

the_scotsman wrote:
so heres a question, and maybe this speaks to me not understandin how all this save mod stuff works:

Flak Armor is a 6+ save, and gives 5+ against weapons that use blasts and templates. But when I go to look at a basic flamer, it's got a -2 save mod! Wouldn't that 5+ be useless anyway?

Save mods seem really REALLY strong compared to normal armor saves tbh, and that's got me worried. I mean, shoot a flamer at a model wearing terminator armor and he's got a 5+ save on 2d6? That's so wimpy!

EDIT: if I'm reading the melee rules correctly, a S4 space marine holding a chainsword lowers a terminators armor save to a six! Really??

is there a mechanic I'm missing that raises a model's armor save? If not, why do -5sv weapons exist in a game with only 3+ saves?

No in 2nd ED you only used the Strength of the model for the Armor Save Mod if the weapon they're using doesn't already have an Armor Save mod itself. So that S4 Chainsword is still only -2. So the Terminator needs a 5+ on 2D6 when attacked by a Chainsword.
EDIT:
Of course the other question is if Invulnerable saves can be taken in addition to regular armor saves as they were in 2nd Edition.

Well, here's hoping that this game is giving basic weaponry extra stats to differentiate them, and this isn't the kind of stuff we see in base 40k. You'd quickly reduce anything but a basic 2+ armor save to something you'd almost never get or benefit from if we've got chainswords reducing space marines to a 5+ and boltgun rounds with a basic -1.

I think the invulnerable save would be in addition, so a terminator would roll 2D6, then 5+ on a D6 for his armour save.
The -5 save mod was mostly for vehicles in 2nd Ed I'm pretty sure, it's been about 20 years since I played.

 Dravis wrote:
I think the invulnerable save would be in addition, so a terminator would roll 2D6, then 5+ on a D6 for his armour save.
The -5 save mod was mostly for vehicles in 2nd Ed I'm pretty sure, it's been about 20 years since I played.

I'd say you're probably right on the Invulnerable Saves but hard to know if they have just gone for an almost copy and paste job of 2nd Edition rules or not. It is the case that the Chainsword's -2 mod looks to be higher then it was in the 2nd ED reference I'm using.

Those -5 mod weapons will almost certainly be crazy expensive. Look at the cost of the Mining Laser and Transuranic Arquebus. I expect a Meltagun to be at least 200pts.

Was I right in reading this weekend GW is putting up the PDFs of all 10 armies on the website? Swore I did read that buried somewhere in here...

the_scotsman wrote:
Well, here's hoping that this game is giving basic weaponry extra stats to differentiate them, and this isn't the kind of stuff we see in base 40k. You'd quickly reduce anything but a basic 2+ armor save to something you'd almost never get or benefit from if we've got chainswords reducing space marines to a 5+ and boltgun rounds with a basic -1.

I'm particularly interested in whether the Lasgun has any save modifier. Are they just porting wholesale, or making selective adjustments. The post that said Flak armour was only 6+ would suggest a straight port, but equally that could be a reason to drop the -1 so a guardsman at least gets a chance against the lasgun.