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Assless chaps? Really. Huh. I don't really see that. I keep thinking of cowboys. But I did grow up in a household that was convinced that older is better.

So according to the kickstarter you guys are going to add more races (nations) and peoples to the game to diversify the game correct?

 MLaw wrote:


Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much

Ignoring the fact we're discussing a sci-fi setting...are you familiar with Tincloth?

 eohall wrote:

 MLaw wrote:


Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much

Ignoring the fact we're discussing a sci-fi setting...are you familiar with Tincloth?

Actually..no..no I'm not (goes to Google it).
Hmm.. still seems a bit rigid to my eyes.. It's funny.. I've researched chaps more in the past few days than just about anything else this entire year..

you are a brave soul i don't want "chaps vs assless chaps" to show up in my search history lol.

They have talked about the next three factions they are cooking up but of course they dont want to promise on kick starter that they are in production or anything of the sort. The kick starter is pretty much to recoup or to add to the base game with the funds. That's the reason why it has such a quick turn around once they play test the rules and send them off to the printer.

Which is both a good and bad thing, the models are done so the turn around for the game will be quick. But at the same time for those that are hungry to see the variety and depth of imagination in the other factions that are going to be part of the game it is kind of a let down that the kickstarter might not spoil them or make them attainable.

maybe it's just me but when i see "two factions" off the bat and the other factions are not described too much just yet. I see it as good vs bad or light vs dark even if we are told that the individual stances of the factions is more morally grey and they can be played as either.

On the morality thing.. I think it's important to establish a faction that believes itself to be the good guys and acts with a higher sense of moral authority etc etc.. and.. it's imporant to have bad guys who really don't place value on life and perhaps even take joy in taking lives or stealing souls or whatever..
It's fine for the rest to be gray areas but if every faction just straddles a middle of the road type of personality, then it's really hard for people who typically associate with either of those mindsets to find something they can get behind.

For instance, Warmachine has Menoth and Cryx. I'm not saying Menoth actually are good guys.. but they believe they are.. Cryx are pretty convincingly evil.
40k, Chaos and Imperium.

What other game systems have endured a decade or more and not had those two factions?

There's always going to be people who want to play the demons or dragons or monsters or whatever.. and there's always going to be people who want to play the crusader types.

EDIT:
Yeah, lol not worried about my search history. I'm pretty sure anyone looking at it would've probably stopped at Marvin Gaye Velociraptor.

 darrkespur wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

This. I'd want to like the game and get on board, but more info is needed. I get that i may not be the 'target player', but the lack of info seems a bit perplexing. Almost feels like the gw 'no info' way of selling a product. Still watching to see what happens with the stretch goals, and hoping more info might come that way.

We don't want to show all our cards at the start of the kickstarter - people would get excited for a few days and then we'd have nothing more to talk about for the rest of the campaign! We have a carefully planned schedule to reveal all over the next few weeks so we can give attention to each part of the game in turn.

A little hint - every unit you can see in the art has been made into a (fully plastic) model, and will be revealed at some point during the campaign. Most of the units in the novels are also going to be revealed, and there's a few hints at the end of the books of where we'll go with future factions. If we raise enough money in the kickstarter all of the new designs will be added as stretch goals to the sweet spot pledge.

Good point, it is only like day 5 of the kickstarter.

I'm not a big fan of every faction having shades of grey morality. I get that enough in real life. Besides, making everyone just a bastard just makes your setting get old really fast.

"This faction is the Colonel Tigh. That faction is the Baltar. That other faction is the President Roslin. These guys are the--
Hey, Stargate SG1 is on! Let's watch that instead!"

 MLaw wrote:
On the morality thing.. I think it's important to establish a faction that believes itself to be the good guys and acts with a higher sense of moral authority etc etc.. and.. it's imporant to have bad guys who really don't place value on life and perhaps even take joy in taking lives or stealing souls or whatever..
It's fine for the rest to be gray areas but if every faction just straddles a middle of the road type of personality, then it's really hard for people who typically associate with either of those mindsets to find something they can get behind.

For instance, Warmachine has Menoth and Cryx. I'm not saying Menoth actually are good guys.. but they believe they are.. Cryx are pretty convincingly evil.
40k, Chaos and Imperium.

What other game systems have endured a decade or more and not had those two factions?

There's always going to be people who want to play the demons or dragons or monsters or whatever.. and there's always going to be people who want to play the crusader types.

EDIT:
Yeah, lol not worried about my search history. I'm pretty sure anyone looking at it would've probably stopped at Marvin Gaye Velociraptor.

When we say that we want to create a morally grey universe, we mean it in the way that everyone thinks they are the hero of their story, that they are doing the right thing. Very few people truly think they are evil. Now, plenty of people do evil things, but they almost always have a justification for their actions - He started the fight because they insulted his mother, they started a war because the other country killed a bunch of people (which that country did because they thought the people were stealing their land, and so on). There's plenty of game worlds out there that have the more traditional good vs evil stories, but we felt that there was a gap and a demand in the market for something a bit different.

Our factions aren't going to be middle of the road. But hopefully we will also manage to make their motivations make sense, even when they do terrible (or wonderful!) things, so you can see why they went down that path. For me as a writer that's much more interesting than the malevolant comic book villain who is mean because he's the bad guy and hurting people is just what he's supposed to do. There'll definitely be heroes and villains, but ones that have made their choices for reasons that you as readers can understand, and hopefully even debate what the right choice is in some cases. I think we've achieved that with the portrayal of the Karists in the novels, and although I understand that not everyone wants that kind of feel to a universe, I'm hoping that enough people will want to explore that kind of setting and the fiction we write within it.

 MLaw wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.

I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...

We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.



* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)

I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.

Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much

The wrinkles are due to the super technologically advanced space denim, obviously. But seriously, stop calling them assless chaps, or for that matter ATM machine, PIN number, CAD design, and tuna fish.

Oh man, I never realized that about ATM or PIN for that matter.

Hey now! These are the assless chaps the Maelstrom deserves, but not the chaps it needs. Anyways, I'm in on a 90$ pledge.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm not a big fan of every faction having shades of grey morality. I get that enough in real life. Besides, making everyone just a bastard just makes your setting get old really fast.

"This faction is the Colonel Tigh. That faction is the Baltar. That other faction is the President Roslin. These guys are the--
Hey, Stargate SG1 is on! Let's watch that instead!"

That kind of storytelling doesn't seem to have done Game of Thrones any harm though!

Personally, I prefer that kind of thing to the two-dimensional 'evil cackling' bad-guys and 'holier than thou' goodies, although I realise there is room for both in forms of narrative.

Our latest update on Kickstarter is an expanded version of something I posted here a week or so ago, but with additional pretty pictures.

We talk a bit more about the mechanics of the Maelstrom and its expansion.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1212994

So the maelstrom is moving. How fast/slow can we expect to background to move along with it? As far as you can that is hehe

Where is the stretch goal?

I like it.

Plus its a good on ya that we KNOW you. Got a good team there, people who won't duck it around on rules, and setting, a good solid plan, and a goal.

I'm giving it a few more days, but I'm pretty much sold. I want some rebel looking gits, though. This army stuff doesn't really do it for me. I need me some road warrior/ outlaw teams/ crews, and maybe some ship crews. What do the spaceships look like? You going to have some Firefly looking stuff going on in there?

The drones look ok, but I was expecting more robot stuff in there, maybe some walker's with some rocket launcher's or machineguns.

I really like what I see though, not seeing any Neosoviets, or Union, but hey, these factions are pretty cool.

Awsome job, Dakka!!!!!

 malfred wrote:
So the maelstrom is moving. How fast/slow can we expect to background to move along with it? As far as you can that is hehe

Hmm.. another good point..
40k in contrast has felt stagnant for me for quite some time. Not in terms of models or rules or whatever.. god knows they stepped on the gas in that department.. but the fluff feels like it just drags on and on. I always thought it'd be cool to play a game that every year or two, the narrative drives whatever the actual model or rules progression is rather than letting the cart pull the horse.

darrkespur - try not to take what I'm saying next as a personal attack.. internet don't got time for tone..
It's a little insulting to presume we don't understand that you don't want an oversimplified good vs evil structure. While I am also a writer.. even for people that are not, it's not that hard to get a grasp for any of this. Several of us grew up watching GI Joe or Transformers and I don't think anyone expects a cut and dry black and white I win because evil is dumb type of scenario. When you imply that I'm saying as much it strikes me as self-important writer drivel. I don't think you're that type of person but I have watched a few of my friends and acquaintances gain little to lots of popularity and immediately assume a certain mentality when addressing others. Please don't become (or be..) that guy.. if you are already (I don't know you) please just remember, we're on Dakka. We tend to not be quite that dumb, despite how we may act from time to time. It's basic story structure to have an antagonist and protagonist. Not having that does not make your setting as innovative as you might hope. For us lowly readers, it strikes us as though you have likely not thought your story out thoroughly. While I know better, it is simply not the perception of the matter. When I talk about righteous or evil, I don't mean Skeletor and Prince Adam.. I mean Adolf freakin Hitler and the Holy Roman Army. Strangely, both of those thought they were doing well and were simultaneously committing atrocities. It's about their demeanor and motivations as you say. When you attempt to humanize a group that should for all intents and purposes simply be thought of as evil, you are diminishing what their true nature is. Finally, I will say this.. The psychological bit you've mentioned is fine and well in books. When people are looking at a demo game of Maelstrom's Edge, they will most likely not want to sit through a symposium on the dichotomy of good and evil and the duality of human nature. The successful people I've known who have had movie deals land or big name comics (sorry I realize that must be such a lowly form of literature to a great novelist such as yourself) they have found it a virtue to be able to sum up your story in the breadth of an elevator ride, as that is likely all you'll be able to hold of a passer-by's attention. I apologize that such brevity was not found here but I invite you to read and potentially re-read what I've said.

Kronk has backed. Waiting begins for minis...

Does the maelstrom destroy everything, like buildings as well? Or are organic beings destroyed leaving planets and cities as they are?

home_brew wrote:
Does the maelstrom destroy everything, like buildings as well? Or are organic beings destroyed leaving planets and cities as they are?

From what I've gathered, it is assumed to destroy everything. Basically all matter appears to get obliterated. But nobody has ever seen what's on the other side of the Maelstrom so who knows?

Yeah its like someone hit the known galaxy with an explosion that just keeps exploding out. If it ever stopped blowing up you could observe what happened in its wake, but you'd have to wait for it to stop (maybe never?) or somehow cross the wave of apparent destruction to verify. I'm assuming scientists have tried observing it with no recordable values returned.

Seems like it could theoretically be stopped by destroying the Cybel network, or at the very least destroying some of it. The same idea behind burning fire breaks. It runs out of steam between star systems, and accelerates when it contacts matter and Cybel energy.

The alternative is of course to leave the galaxy itself and flee to another one. The intergalactic void should stop it.

From what they've posted so far, it sounds like they'd have to slow boat it past the galactic rim, since their existing FTL tech only works between stars. I can't imagine slowboating it to Andromeda is going to work very well ...

A firebreak sort of idea might work though, if they could be thorough enough, or find a choke point. It'd hard to be really sure. The Maelstrom could plow through the inner arm structure and cross arms, possibly. A lot of this will depend on all that sci-fi physics they're being all mysterious about though ...

I have to admit though, I'm torn. I know how bad I can get about hobbies (six months in and I give up), and I've had some bad luck finding people to play even 40k on a good time for me. But then, a smaller game profile would be less painful on the wallet, too. Freaking Riptide prices ...

I think it keeps expanding when there aren't cybel strands to eat up, it just travels along them faster. I'm not convinced removing the network would do anything but slow it. And like you guys said, the only way to get away from it expediently is by using the network.

I think some kind of backwards explosion canceling it out would be the most likely way to stop it, but then that explosion in and of itself may cause similar problems.

They need to find a different layer of subspace and hide entire planets from its wake

It does sorta make you wonder what happens when it reaches the rim. Will it eventually reach out towards other galaxies, or is there a matter/energy density below which it can't propagate any more?

Given what we've heard, they might all just be universally screwed unless they could come up with another FTL mechanism, or build something on the scale of a Ringworld...

 MLaw wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.

I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...

We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.



* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)

I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.

Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much

There are plenty of materials that are thick enough and strong enough to be protective and still can wrinkle and fold, including leather, as well as synthetic protective materials. A material doesn't have to be rigid in order to be protective.

Just ask Kevlar?

I don't think we are talking about bulletproof chaps here. Just chaps that would be protective enough for everyday work (power tools, sparks from welding, the ones I used for my chainsaw were non-rigid on purpose and designed to get snatched by the chain if it got too close and then be flexible enough to get 'sucked' along the chain and bunch up and stop the blade before it starts to eat your leg) and which might just be strong enough to block some shrapnel that gets thrown your way during combat.

Anything that would get stopped by some leather probably wasn't going to be too lethal in the first place.

The real practical use for it is slowing wear and tear on your pants and keeping you a little more comfortable from bumps and bruises. Its not going to stop a bullet.

Keeping your soldiers clothed is a serious problem. Just ask all those soldiers in the 1700s who went to war with no shoes.


Anyway, on the topic of the rules, I finally had a chance to sit down and read the demo rules.

I must say I'm impressed. They seem fairly tight and intuitive, while also being distinctive. I especially like how damage application works.

And we're only $1800 away from that first stretch goal

Bunker gear wouldn't stop a bullet, but it kept a lot of other stuff from hurting me. Chaps can keep lots of shrapnel out of your skin, keep acid or flammable liquids from soaking into your clothes, keep fire from burning you or catching your regular clothes on fire. But I'm guessing a bullet will kill the grunt contractor, and he just isn't important enough to waste the money on bullet protection for him.