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Hmm, looking at the models it seems that the contractors are wearing at least some form of body armor. Probably super cheap, but it looks like more than just some simple work clothes.

As someone who's kept an eye on this from the beginning, I'm very excited to see all the enthusiasm about this project. I've seen these guys pour insane amounts of effort into this, and it really makes me happy to see all the speculation and discussion going on about this. I've thought of some of the same things that you all are discussing, and it's really bringing out the hard sci-fi geek in me. I had a very fun conversation (for me, anyway) with darrkesper about orbital mechanics.

Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.

GrimDork hit it on the nose.

They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none.
They also work just like any contract work would in real life.
Example:
Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.

Geez. These guys are Blackwater?

 malfred wrote:
Geez. These guys are Blackwater?

More like Paul Blart

Remember it is LOWEST bid that wins...
lowest bid does not necessarily mean the people with the best equipment.

 d-usa wrote:
I don't think we are talking about bulletproof chaps here. Just chaps that would be protective enough for everyday work (power tools, sparks from welding, the ones I used for my chainsaw were non-rigid on purpose and designed to get snatched by the chain if it got too close and then be flexible enough to get 'sucked' along the chain and bunch up and stop the blade before it starts to eat your leg) and which might just be strong enough to block some shrapnel that gets thrown your way during combat.

Sounds like something you'd want to have in front of your crotch.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Anything that would get stopped by some leather probably wasn't going to be too lethal in the first place.

The real practical use for it is slowing wear and tear on your pants and keeping you a little more comfortable from bumps and bruises. Its not going to stop a bullet.

They don't necessarily have to be leather, and I certainly don't think they're supposed to be bulletproof. I think they are just supposed to do what normal chaps do - protect from either thick brush or undergrowth, and/or like others have said, protect the legs while doing things like chainsawing and welding.

 keltikhoa wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.

GrimDork hit it on the nose.

They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none.
They also work just like any contract work would in real life.
Example:
Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.

How do you explain the shoulder pads? Are they just decorative, like Mouse Ears or a Hotdog On A Stick hat?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 keltikhoa wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.

GrimDork hit it on the nose.

They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none.
They also work just like any contract work would in real life.
Example:
Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.

How do you explain the shoulder pads? Are they just decorative, like Mouse Ears or a Hotdog On A Stick hat?

I think it's more like Malfred said. These guys are basically like Blackwater.

 Hordini wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much

There are plenty of materials that are thick enough and strong enough to be protective and still can wrinkle and fold, including leather, as well as synthetic protective materials. A material doesn't have to be rigid in order to be protective.

Fetishwear aside, the purpose of chaps is to use fabric that is too rigid to be made into trousers by removing the part where the rigidity of the fabric interferes most with the movement of the body - on the inside of a joint. If rigidity is not a problem, you can just use the stuff to make trousers instead.

And since I already posted them to the other thread, here's a bit of concept fanart I did for female Contractors and Troopers.

I never thought when we launched that we would have pages of discussion on fetishwear

Seriously though, it's great fun to read all of the speculation and discussions about "what if X". Some of your questions we have the answers to and will likely trickle out, other's we've left deliberately open to interpretation. Keep the discussions coming!

I think national guard reservists would be a better description guys... They work a variety of jobs unless called up to fight in dire circumstances. Probably get their training every 3rd weekend or something, and most will be doing it for pay and perks to supplement the regular income and for better chances of promotions... From the sound of it, sooner or later a dedicated type of unit or many may come along in the future, but it sounds like the initial setting is a smaller world, so mostly locals on the Ep side?

I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.

The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.

I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.

I'm not sure if National Guard really works either. During the novels one of the characters goes to a Contractor barracks/whatever and hires them out. They really feel like private security that also happens to be on tap for the government.

MajorTom11 wrote:I think national guard reservists would be a better description guys... They work a variety of jobs unless called up to fight in dire circumstances. Probably get their training every 3rd weekend or something, and most will be doing it for pay and perks to supplement the regular income and for better chances of promotions... From the sound of it, sooner or later a dedicated type of unit or many may come along in the future, but it sounds like the initial setting is a smaller world, so mostly locals on the Ep side?

EarloftheNorth wrote:I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.

The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.

I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.

Exactly right on the role of the contractor. Contractors are the dogsbodies of the Foundation, men and women at the bottom of the rung employed on short-term contracts to do the jobs that need doing. On worlds near the Edge, they are often working partly in exchange for berths on evacuation ships for them and their families. As well as security, you can find them fixing roads, running mining facilities and maintaining terraforming drudges, sometimes all in the same week!

The majority of the Foundation's fighting forces are robotic (and we still have more robots to show that I think people will like the look of), and Contractors are the supporting unit to the drones and bots, keeping them running and offering basic fire support. As well as the Contractor and robotic arms of the Foundation, the Epirians also have a dedicated military arm called SecDef which gets called in when the situation gets really dire. We haven't got any SecDef units in the Kickstarter but they are near the top of the list for expansion units in the future. I've written a post for one of our Kickstarter updates about the structure and history of both starting factions which should pop up in the next week or so.

 EarloftheNorth wrote:
I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.

The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.

I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.

You're on the right track, but it's actually the other way round! The big, well funded Epirian worlds were destroyed in the initial expansion of the Maelstrom. The worlds currently on the Edge were either new colonies or backwaters on the fringes of civilised human space, and now are the same again in reverse, as people flee. There are more developed and well funded Epirian worlds a little further away from the Edge where the richer franchises fled to, but they are all fairly new worlds and there aren't nearly as many as you'd think....

I wonder how the Maelstrom destroys a planet...does it burn through the atmosphere first or does its close proximity cause earth shattering tremors etc. Presumably if a planet has a cyber gate or generator then the destruction goes quicker and is far more powerful but what about a 'bog-standard' planet?

 Stormphoenix wrote:

 EarloftheNorth wrote:
I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.

The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.

I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.

You're on the right track, but it's actually the other way round! The big, well funded Epirian worlds were destroyed in the initial expansion of the Maelstrom. The worlds currently on the Edge were either new colonies or backwaters on the fringes of civilised human space, and now are the same again in reverse, as people flee. There are more developed and well funded Epirian worlds a little further away from the Edge where the richer franchises fled to, but they are all fairly new worlds and there aren't nearly as many as you'd think....

Interesting.....which in turn would be another reason for the lack of large numbers of combat troops, they simply dont have them or the ability and resources to raise enough of them to garrison their facilities on their remaining worlds. So armed civilians contractors with robotic forces (which can fill both civilian and combat roles) can do the job, especially if your now concerned with getting the maximum resources out of the remaining worlds to fund your migration rimwards.

Also if you need to decide whether to ship one more load of resources off planet or evacuate your rearguard, its a much easier choice when your rearguard is robotic rather humans who might just make the decision for you.

The Maelstrom is reminding me of some massive, zero-g, forest fire. When it hits a cybel (?) it is like a forest fire hitting dry patches and accelerating it's pace. It wouldn't be evenly moving across space and only rapidly spreads in the direction of the cybel it hits. So this adds a sense of urgency in that at any moment it could rapidly spread across a section of space and potentially consume valuable resources.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know you said you will be releasing additional factions/armies later on. I was wondering if it is possible for players to make their own factions? Or will the rules not make it possible?

 Lost Egg wrote:
I wonder how the Maelstrom destroys a planet...does it burn through the atmosphere first or does its close proximity cause earth shattering tremors etc. Presumably if a planet has a cyber gate or generator then the destruction goes quicker and is far more powerful but what about a 'bog-standard' planet?

There's a little bit of both. The reaction of Maelstrom energy with matter is explosive, fuelling the Maelstrom's expansion further, and increasing the risk of it finding a new cybel tunnel to travel down and spread. The Maelstrom also disrupts stars and planets, both directly because the wavefront itself has a gravitational effect and also because as star systems nearby are destroyed, the local gravity of the region becomes destabilised, affecting the movements of stars around their local group and the orbits of planets around stars. When it gets really close, the Maelstrom can cause earthquakes and tremors on planets, and disrupt the stability of stars to the point that they go supernova. In the last few days and weeks of a star system's existence the atmosphere can burn away. In general it's a good idea to be far away from that when it happens!

All stars and large planets (think Jupiter sized) will have enough cybel energy attracted to their mass to have cybel tunnels connecting them to other nearby large objects. Some have gates installed, whilst others can only be accessed by ships capable of making their own opening into the cybel tunnel. Either way, the Maelstrom will make its way through, but open gates and large explosions of cybel energy act like a backdraft effect, drawing the Maelstrom towards that event, and away from other star systems. There are some out there who will abuse this behaviour to try and influence the path of the Maelstrom towards or away certain systems. A forest fire is a nice analogy for the Maelstrom's behaviour, for sure.

So, any info on the terrain bits? Will they become available as separate sprues as well? Any indication on how much they'll cost if so?

So far they only look like a stretch goal with the main box.

Malika2 wrote:So, any info on the terrain bits? Will they become available as separate sprues as well? Any indication on how much they'll cost if so?

malfred wrote:So far they only look like a stretch goal with the main box.

We're looking into this. We plan to announce something when we hit the terrain stretch goal.

yakface has added an update to the Kickstarter going a bit more in-depth into the key details of the ruleset. You can read that here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1213843

 darrkespur wrote:


yakface has added an update to the Kickstarter going a bit more in-depth into the key details of the ruleset. You can read that here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1213843

This right here is why I pledged for this game and why I am so enthused about seeing this become a reality. Yakface has a long and distinguished history of working with 40k tournaments with the INAT (you can read about that here) and it is fair to say that he knows what goes towards making a good game. I was privileged to play an early cut of this game at Adepticon last year and this game has situations where tactical decisions have a real and lasting effect on the game, more so than any other game I can think of over the past 20 years that I have played. The game has a superb grounding in reality (which may strike some as surprising given it is a sci-fi game) - the game places emphasis on fire and manoeuvre tactics, which some of you may know are the basis for modern infantry tactics - locate the enemy, suppress them with fire and flank them to destroy. This helps to make the game immersive and interactive; the player really feels like his or her tactical choices can win or lose - victory can be snatched from the jaws of defeat and vice versa! I look forward to seeing the improvements that Yakface has no doubt made since then and of course, the beta testing which will help improve the rules further but I for one am very keen on playing this game in the not too distant future.

 keltikhoa wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Geez. These guys are Blackwater?

More like Paul Blart

And that's why I'm gonna greenstuff some big round bellies onto them. OOO, I could make the plastic terrain sprues into a Space Donut shop. Holy carp man, thanks for the great idea!

I see I'm not the only one hoping to have some hefty fellows mixed in.

 Barzam wrote:
I see I'm not the only one hoping to have some hefty fellows mixed in.

I definitely can't wait for the Broken...the possibilities for conversion for that faction!

Google 'PMC' or 'security contractor' and hit Images. PMCs today are generally WELL equipped by current standards.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Google 'PMC' or 'security contractor' and hit Images. PMCs today are generally WELL equipped by current standards.

This is true...Although, I think to help set a visual standard of PMC Vs. Military it is useful to have the PMC minis look not as well equipped. So in the future if the actual military is released they will appear more powerful and deadlier than the PMCs.