Switch Theme:

Genestealer Cult news & rumours - FAQ / Designer Commentary page 45  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant




Tampa, FL

So they kept infinite mortal wounds. Top kek gentlemen. Top fething kek. On top of that, it seems based on their Facebook response they were going to change it and at some point during playtesting decided not to.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 20:52:53


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





Wayniac wrote:
So they kept infinite mortal wounds. Top kek gentlemen. Top fething kek. On top of that, it seems based on their Facebook response they were going to change it and at some point during playtesting decided not to.


It's a leadership bomb build that is pretty easy to pick apart. I'm sure if it gets abused it will be changed, but not very many other leadership based tactics have done well. So here's to betting it will be in lists, but rarely a game winner.


PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





What is this mysterious super-tactic you guys are alluding to?

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Glasgow

 Mr_Rose wrote:
What is this mysterious super-tactic you guys are alluding to?


With the available leadership buffs and debuffs available to GSC you can use Mental Onslaught to autokill every unit in the game. Takes quite a set up.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Savannah

 Mr_Rose wrote:
What is this mysterious super-tactic you guys are alluding to?

Buffing a patriarch's Ld and/or debuffing the opponent's Ld to the point where yours is six higher, then casting Mental Onslaught. As you can't ever lose the roll, that one model take an endless stream of mortal wounds and dies instantly.

It's not that hard to set up, but you can be left standing out in the open if one of the parts fails to come through.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 21:18:33


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


run some knights with a loyal 32 and you can remove multiple models just as easily

The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Glasgow

 Ascalam wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


run some knights with a loyal 32 and you can remove multiple models just as easily


The cost:reward ratio isn't exactly similar.

A few hundred points of GSC can delete apocalypse-level units.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener




North Carolina

 Carnikang wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So they kept infinite mortal wounds. Top kek gentlemen. Top fething kek. On top of that, it seems based on their Facebook response they were going to change it and at some point during playtesting decided not to.


It's a leadership bomb build that is pretty easy to pick apart. I'm sure if it gets abused it will be changed, but not very many other leadership based tactics have done well. So here's to betting it will be in lists, but rarely a game winner.



Here's my thing. Is there a leadership bomb that is in the same solar system of effectiveness as this one, if everything goes right? Nope. That's bad game design. If they go back and errata the Harlequin or Night Lords or Grey Knights powers or strats to be close to as powerful as this one, okay. But as it is, it's really bad form to give this sort of thing to Genestealer Cults and nothing else.
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So they kept infinite mortal wounds. Top kek gentlemen. Top fething kek. On top of that, it seems based on their Facebook response they were going to change it and at some point during playtesting decided not to.


It's a leadership bomb build that is pretty easy to pick apart. I'm sure if it gets abused it will be changed, but not very many other leadership based tactics have done well. So here's to betting it will be in lists, but rarely a game winner.



Here's my thing. Is there a leadership bomb that is in the same solar system of effectiveness as this one, if everything goes right? Nope. That's bad game design. If they go back and errata the Harlequin or Night Lords or Grey Knights powers or strats to be close to as powerful as this one, okay. But as it is, it's really bad form to give this sort of thing to Genestealer Cults and nothing else.

Indeed, just as stupid as their decision to make APGitM different to Vect and to not allow every army the ability to do the same thing. We’re on the way to 7th balance.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Savannah

nfe wrote:
 Ascalam wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


run some knights with a loyal 32 and you can remove multiple models just as easily


The cost:reward ratio isn't exactly similar.

A few hundred points of GSC can delete apocalypse-level units.

Apocalypse style games are about as far from balanced as you can get, with weird and completely broken stuff flying everywhere. About the biggest thing this can kill in a game with even reasonably sane rules is a knight dominus, and it's the cult's way of dealing with such super heavies at "range" (18" isn't much range, but what can you do). You can also pretty easily shut down the combo with some psychic defense, or at least threaten the chances of it going off enough that risking everything involved isn't worth it anymore for the cult player.

Gene St. Ealer wrote:
 Carnikang wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So they kept infinite mortal wounds. Top kek gentlemen. Top fething kek. On top of that, it seems based on their Facebook response they were going to change it and at some point during playtesting decided not to.


It's a leadership bomb build that is pretty easy to pick apart. I'm sure if it gets abused it will be changed, but not very many other leadership based tactics have done well. So here's to betting it will be in lists, but rarely a game winner.



Here's my thing. Is there a leadership bomb that is in the same solar system of effectiveness as this one, if everything goes right? Nope. That's bad game design. If they go back and errata the Harlequin or Night Lords or Grey Knights powers or strats to be close to as powerful as this one, okay. But as it is, it's really bad form to give this sort of thing to Genestealer Cults and nothing else.

So they have one good anti-heavy power that requires investment of multiple characters, relics, and psychic powers to work? Each army is good at different things and gets different toys, this just happens to be one gsc got (much like they didn't get flyers or terminators). It's also a trick that you can disrupt without too much issue, just by bringing some psychic might of your own (or buffing your big thing's leadership yourself, if you have that option).
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


It largely depends on one’s opponent doing diddly as you set it up.

Possible is not the same as practical.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

nfe wrote:
 Ascalam wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


run some knights with a loyal 32 and you can remove multiple models just as easily


The cost:reward ratio isn't exactly similar.

A few hundred points of GSC can delete apocalypse-level units.



While being fragile as hell and pretty easy to just erase from the board. GSC are a tinfoil tacnuke. They can really put out a lot of hurt IF you somehow have everything lines up, in range and not dead

A Castellan with CP to burn can do the same thing from the other side of the battlefield, whilst being basically immune to enemy action if you screen right and keep pumping those CPs. I've had 'Apocalype level units' like Scabathriax, a Shadowsword etc deleted turn 1, before they even acted, by a few hundred points of knights.


The Mental onslaught bomb revolves around the Patriarch. He's the only one who can make it work properly. I've had mine tagged out turn 2 by a unit of ratlings , or a couple of units of Eldar rangers several times, as he is (like most GSC) a fragile as hell blender. Yes, he can pass off wounds if he lucks out to his screen, but it's not automatic, and he only has 6 wounds on a T 5 frame with a 5 ++ . Can they do that to knights as easily?

Yes, if the stars all align, you make your psychic test, are not denied, can get close enough to cast and maybe get a debuff off, you can probably delete a single model. Its powerful. Apparently intentionally so, given GW's correction of their FAQ to not limit it. It is especially potent if your opponent put a lot of their eggs in one basket with a high-points model like a knight, which GSC have few other good answers for.

*edit a word, for better grammar*


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 22:54:20


The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Glasgow

 Trimarius wrote:
nfe wrote:
 Ascalam wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So there's a way to set up a situation where you can remove a single model? That does sound pretty game-breaking.


run some knights with a loyal 32 and you can remove multiple models just as easily


The cost:reward ratio isn't exactly similar.

A few hundred points of GSC can delete apocalypse-level units.

Apocalypse style games are about as far from balanced as you can get, with weird and completely broken stuff flying everywhere. About the biggest thing this can kill in a game with even reasonably sane rules is a knight dominus, and it's the cult's way of dealing with such super heavies at "range" (18" isn't much range, but what can you do). You can also pretty easily shut down the combo with some psychic defense, or at least threaten the chances of it going off enough that risking everything involved isn't worth it anymore for the cult player.


I'm not saying it's practical to achieve the superheavy instakills or that the power is itself game-breaking (though you have pretty great chances of taking a lot of wounds off superheavies with very little effort with just a patriarch and one support character - and you probably have them running around together in an aberrant melee deathstar anyway so it's not a specific set up just for that power). I'm just saying that the comparison with 500+ points of stuff burning CPs is silly.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

How does the trick work?

   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How does the trick work?


Not really a trick, but here goes.

Mental Onslaught is a GSC psychic power. Like many of the GSC powers it’s all about using your LD.

You roll D6 plus your Ld against D6 plus theirs. If your score beats theirs you deal a mortal wound and go again.

The best vehicle for is is the Patriarch, who is LD 10 base. There are ways to buff his Ld such as the warlord trait no one uses from the main rulebook (+1 ld bubble for warlord and within 6’’) or having a Clamavus nearbyfor a +1. There are ways to reduce enemy LD too, such as having a locus within 6’’ or certain other psychic powers from guard or Nids. There are relics that can help with this too.

It is possible to buff your ld high enough/ debuff the enemy enough to autopass the roll and effectively kill the target without them being able to save, but it takes a LOT of setup and some luck to get close enough and get the power off.

Since the Patriarch has to be your warlord, if you take one, you are putting him in prime position to be shot in reprisal next turn, along with his retinue

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/25 22:52:04


The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




From Shuppet but basically

in order of reliability


A grade (guaranteed):

+1 LD warlord trait
+1 LD vigilus relic
+1 LD clamavus



B grade (can fail, but still quite reliable)

-1 LD the Horror (Nid allies)
-1 LD Locus (use strat to deploy closer if necessary)




C grade (unreliable, gimmicky)

-1 LD jorm relic on Flyrant (Nid allies)


D grade (don't even bother)

-2 LD Terrifying Visions (AM allies)



As others said combine debuff with buff. When the difference is 6 you remove the enemy unit as they will never roll high enough to beat your roll.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How does the trick work?


Patriarch, rulebook warlord trait inspirational leader for +1 LD aura
Broodsurge detachment relic for +1 LD aura on an iconward
Clamavus for another +1 LD aura
Your Patriarch is now LD 13

Ally in Nids for the horror power for -1 LD
Cult ambush a locus for another -1 LD 6" aura (lying in wait to get 3" away)


So now you need to pick a target and decide how many stacking mods you need to auto kill it based on it's LD because if you get a 6 point spread it just auto loses the roll off and dies to infinite mortal wounds. So anything LD 7 doesn't need debuffs, many vehicles and monsters are 7 for example. A knight is a 9, you would need all the mods to auto kill it. Theres a couple other ways for mods but this is the gist of it.

Ninja'd

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/25 22:58:07


   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






What was the Mental Onslaught nerf that was redacted?
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

 oni wrote:
What was the Mental Onslaught nerf that was redacted?


It maxed the ML at 6

The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




As others have said, it can be hella powerful and delete any single model in the game in one go.

However, the cost is pretty high.
First off you need the following units (at least)-
Patriarch, Clamavus, Locus, Iconward, totalling 273 points base and 4-6 CP. This gets you to Ld 13 on the Patriarch and gives your opponent a -1 Ld.

If you want to go down the Flying Hive Tyrant with Horror route, then you’re adding on at least 210 points + the cost of the rest of the detachment.

All this to drop down on turn 2 to -hopefully- get your Locus within 6” of the Castellan and then get the power cast with the likelihood that you’ll also be up against a Culexus assassin that’ll now get plugged into most Imperium lists.
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




While I don't think this will end up being a really big deal, I still dislike the idea behind it. It's a lot of moving parts so getting all of those off should be rewarded but auto-killing units just doesn't seem very fun. If they'd changed it to that you still have to roll off because a GSC roll of 1 always fail I'd been super cool with it. The GSC player would probably save a CP for the occasion and still get 10-ish MWs off.
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Infinite MO is extremely powerful. It can be used to snipe characters too. Calling the setup difficult is an overstatement. Really you need to pass two psychic powers at Power Level 6 which is easy considering you'll be saving re-rolls for that, and just pick the right abilities to your list. It's not an expensive commitment to have the ability to one shot a Castellan.

I played against this setup last weekend at a GT and managed to avoid my Castellan getting nuked, but it was a hammer and anvil deployment and I kept it far behind my first and second lines pretty much the whole game.

For those unaware, GSC can deep strike pretty much wherever they want unless you can do multiple layers of screens (and have the deployment space to do so). One unit can come within 3" of your units and shoot in the movement phase clearing the chaff for the rest of the units to deep strike inside your lines. It's not really that difficult to get the Patriarch within 18" of whatever it wants to click delete automagically.

Lastly, even at 6 max of mortal wounds it would still have been a useful ability, considering it can snipe any 6 wound hero pretty easily. Stratagem denys can be GSC-vected if necessary. At no max, you can't really run for example a Krast Crusader into the GSC lines as a counter charge unit because it'll just get autodeleted without any real cost to the GSC player.

Really it will have more of an impact than people think. In the flying circus games the Patriarch may very well kill 4 Eldar flyers by himself with MO every turn.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/26 08:52:09


 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





 Therion wrote:


Really it will have more of an impact than people think. In the flying circus games the Patriarch may very well kill 4 Eldar flyers by himself with MO every turn.



What. I'm curious to hear how this is supposed to happen.

At Max, one a turn (three if they can be squadroned), since it's a psychic power that can only be attempted once a turn, right?
He can't fly, and unless you're taking a familiar, can only cast one power a turn.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Maybe he means 4 turns=4 dead fliers.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





A 18" range WC 6 psychic powers that can do more than 2 average wounds (smite) is already good in that it doesn't need to target the closest enemy unit.

That it's can potentially kill a 200+ pt model with a setup, or do 6-8 wounds with little setup is likely too good for a wc6 power.

It likely should be wc8, or 12" and wc7, or cap out at 6 wounds..etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/26 09:35:00


 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





tneva82 wrote:
Maybe he means 4 turns=4 dead fliers.

Possibly.

Im sure it could be done, but keeping the leadership buffs and debuffs alive around him and moving into range would be problematic. It's nice to finally have a good answer to fliers as cult though.

Since relying on 5-6+ BS mining laser shots was terrible in the index.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

Those flyers are fast and stupid agile. If they are all hanging out within his range while the rest of the army does nothing to gun the patriarch down or deny his powers, then yes, they will die. And deserve it.

Frankly I find -2 to -3 to hit Alaitoc flyers far more annoying and gamebreaking than Onslaught.

The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






GW made a concerted effort to remove the vehicle one-shot removal mechanic from the game. They just reintroduced it with this.

Some of you here are saying that this is hard to do. I assure it's not. It's extremely easy, virtually effortless and almost always guaranteed to remove its target from play.

I just played in a tournament this past weekend. 1st place = GSC. 2nd place = GSC. Guess what they were doing? Mental Onslaught the opponents key units off of the table.

I had the pleasure of playing the 2nd place army. Great game, great players, but putting 21 MW's on my IK and dropping it is complete bs. It has every bit that horrible, feel-bad scenario that 8th edition has tried to squash from the game.

The power needs to be rewritten and the rewrite needs to be heavy handed. I think disallowing it to target CHARACTERS and TITANIC units is a great start.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Savannah

To protect a knight (or anything else Ld 9), all you have to do is keep a few chaff models nearby. The locus has to get within 6" for his debuff to work, so you just make a circle 3" from the knight with a guard squad and he can't get close enough to tag it with the aura. At that point the multi-character, multi-power, multi-CP using combo is going to do a survivable number of wounds (don't forget the 5+++ knight strat) and the gsc will be exactly as exposed. Or just deny one of the powers (and/or bring an Eversore if you really want to screw them over). It's not hard to protect yourself from the insta-gib.

The combo is going to nuke the odd knight every once and a while (maybe all the screens within double moving guard + knight movement range (~28", so basically all of them) died turn one somehow, the player forgot and outpaced the guard, there was a gap left in the circle by mistake, etc.), but it's not going to be blowing them up left and right. And since GSC lack the capability for an overwhelming ranged alpha strike against a knight, it's really just their (much more convoluted) equivalent.

Also note that the locus uses the same strat that lets the hand flamer bomb work, so the cult player can't do that on a turn they want to go for the knight-nuke.
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: