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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Tbh when i heard they were doing Kultures i was expecting Badmoonz to have a bonus armor, all the "bling" they put on their armor offers some sort of extra defense.
I wasnt expecting the shooty at all.

That too, I mean their psychic power already does that, so having a different kind of tanky trait that wasn't a FNP like Snakebites would be good rather than just offense. Makes regular and Biker nobz much more feasible, while also giving Meganobz real tankiness. Hell, that actually might make the Ard boyz strat worth taking if it wasn't 2CP, and if it gave a 4+ save instead.

Well it feels like the traits are gradually becoming more complex as the editions go on. So maybe we'll get better stuff next codex?

cody.d. wrote:
Well it feels like the traits are gradually becoming more complex as the editions go on. So maybe we'll get better stuff next codex?

Well based on the new Necron dynasties and SM chapter traits, it does seem like they're trying to avoid one note traits. However, given that we're a xenos faction, let's just hope they address the dead end klans in the army.

Ran a variation of the Goffs skarboyz list today vs nids. Its nasty, was able to pin him back in his deployment zone very easily by getting first turn. First time using ghaz too, hes a beast

Not into Orks at the moment, but at a local tournament an Ork list got first prize

Detachment 1: Patrol(Orks – Deathskullz (-0 CP)) - 923, -2cp (Biggest Boss and Kustom Job)

HQ- Warboss [70], Kustom Shoota [3], Power Klaw [10], Attack Squig [0], Da Biggest Boss [-1cp], Da Killa Klaw - 83, 4PL, -1cp
Warlord: Brutal but Kunnin

Troops- 10 Gretchin [50] – 50, 2PL

Elites - 4 Tankbustas [68], Boss Nob [17] - 85, 4PL

Fast Attack- 3 ShokkJump Dragstas [330], Kustom Job: Gyroscopic Whirligig – 330, 15PL, -1cp

Aircraft - Blitza-Bommer [155] - 155, 8PL
Aircraft - Burna-Bommer [155] - 155, 8PL

Dedicated Transport - Trukk [65] - 65, 4PL


Detachment 1: Outrider(Orks – Deathskullz (-3 CP)) - 1075, -4cp (Detachment and Kustom Job
HQ- Big Mek with Kustom Force Field [75] – 75, 4PL

Elites- 5 Kommandos [45], 1 Tankbusta Bomb[0] – 45, 3PL
Elites- 5 Kommandos [45], 1 Tankbusta Bomb[0] – 45, 3PL

Fast Attack- 3 Megatrakk Scrapjets [330], Kustom Job: Korkscrew – 330, 15 PL, -1cp
Fast Attack- 1 Megatrakk Scrapjets [110] – 110, 5 PL
Fast Attack- 1 Megatrakk Scrapjets [110] – 110, 5 PL

Aircraft - Wazbom Blastajet [140], 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons [0], Smasha Gun [20], Kustom Force Field [20] - 180, 10PL
Aircraft - Wazbom Blastajet [140], 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons [0], Smasha Gun [20], Kustom Force Field [20] - 180, 10PL

Just leave it here...

That's an interesting list for sure.

Especially the double wazboms sound interesting, do you have any info on how he used them?

 Jidmah wrote:
That's an interesting list for sure.

Especially the double wazboms sound interesting, do you have any info on how he used them?

No, could not join that tournament myself..

First turn he played against necron vehicle heavy,
second turn against custodus,
third turn against blood angels sanguinary guard jump army,

I think his flexible speed, board control and dealing mortal wounds really helped him against these elite armies.

4 flyiers in such combination are good. My guess as I play the flyiers:

Make 2 groups, one wazboom and one bommer each. Put them on the wings so, you can make a minimum move 45deg towards side edge for flexibility of move and so, that kff covers your army and groups fly almost stright to enemy deploy and next turn one turn left, second turn right. Nowhere to hide, wazbooms shoot and gives 5++ to both planes, bommer bomb / eadButt. 2 groups is hard outmaneuver, one of them can bomb / eadbutt you any time. Shoot down such amount of flyiers tooks at least 2 turns to shoot down so the rest of your army is safe.

I dont see the point in blitza bommer, burna could be better, but who knows what is behind....

Heafstaag wrote:
I don't know how much I like truck boyz. They just don't have enough hitting power or staying power.

I know boyz don't hit as hard as they used to, but so far my boyz are still doing decent work. I used a lot of truck boyz tonight, and they hit about how I expected, maybe a touch under, but they just crumpled the round after they charged.

At this point its really a Rock paper scissors match up on whether or not even mobz of 30 boyz are capable. 30 boyz only inflict 13 wounds vs T4 3+ right now, and good luck getting all 30 in combat. Now add in the recent prevalence of T5 3+ and suddenly those 30 boyz are doing 8-9 wounds. So against units like Heavy Intercessors you are only killing 2 to 3 models.

In return that SM player can wipe out a full sized mob of boyz using aggressors each turn. So why take boyz at all?

On the flipside of that, if you are lucky enough to square up against an IG opponent. That 30 mob is going to mulch his infantry if you can get into CC. And really, I want to get his tanks tied up as quickly as possible to minimize dmg.

 Jidmah wrote:
I actually switched to deathskulls in 8th because bloodaxes were so terribad and they were the only clan which worked for every unit. I kind of stuck with them since then outside of experiments.
My army is painted as all sorts of clans, but the fluff behind them is a Bloodaxe Warboss slowly absorbing tribes and clans into his Waaagh!, utilizing each one at what they are best similar to Thrakka. So tripple clans wasn't an option because it would have confused my opponents.

I had to give up on my beautiful speed freakz in 8th because of how bad Warbikes are :( 9th looks like a repeat as well but we will see, I started using my Blood axes a lot in index orkz only to receive the worst traits possible for them and had to switch again, I finished 8th playing a Free Boota army that relied on Mek Gunz and Scrapjets, it was a fun list but I really miss my Kommando horde and my Warbikers.

Warbikers are just one unit though and there are plenty of viable evil suns builds right now. I also had some really good results with warbikers in 8th.

If you lock yourself into as single play style, you are just asking to get screwed over ever time a CA or codex gets released.

SemperMortis wrote:

I had to give up on my beautiful speed freakz in 8th because of how bad Warbikes are :( 9th looks like a repeat as well but we will see, I started using my Blood axes a lot in index orkz only to receive the worst traits possible for them and had to switch again, I finished 8th playing a Free Boota army that relied on Mek Gunz and Scrapjets, it was a fun list but I really miss my Kommando horde and my Warbikers.

Honestly, I think Nob Bikers are interesting.

You can load out 3 for 125 points -- Double Big Choppa, 1 w/ Saw. I think they could have play as a counter charger or to punish someone who doesn't put much on a flank.

I think they will be better as soon as the Warboss on Bike makes a return, though. I have a list in my head I wanna try mixing Evil Suns with some DS buggies that utilizes them heavily, but it feels kind of bad I'd have to use my wartrike just so they could advance and charge

 Jidmah wrote:
Warbikers are just one unit though and there are plenty of viable evil suns builds right now. I also had some really good results with warbikers in 8th.

If you lock yourself into as single play style, you are just asking to get screwed over ever time a CA or codex gets released.

Up until the codex dropped we didn't have anything playable. After that we had the Scrapjets and the other one (I have 3 scrapjets), but by that point I was playing FreeBootas with my scrapjets and having a lot of success and fun. I don't paint my models any klan, i have a kustom job for that and they play as whichever klan I feel like. I had a game today where they were Deffskullz.

So, what exactly is the problem then?
The ork codex was released two years ago and I think no would disagree that playing index orks sucked.

I'm still puzzling over how to make Killa Kans work. There has to be some way to make them at least playable, if not competitive.

My current thoughts are:
1: Wartrike escort to make them faster
2: Waaagh! banner nob to give them +1 to hit
3: Buzzsaws for +1 attack, scrag 'em for +1 again

I'm pondering skorcha + buzzsaw for a somewhat unexpected CC unit which can bully effectively, and if it fights first (with all the buffs above) they have 5 attacks each, hitting on 4+, with S7 AP-2 D2. If you have a unit of 5 (as 6 is blast heaven) with Orkymatic pistons you have 25 attacks, probably using all of them as the bases are big. With the banner that's 12 hits, 8 wounds and probably 6 or so dead primaris. But then you can cast Warpath on them and get them up to 30 attacks, which isn't that bad.

However, it's a lot of support and points to make a bad unit mediocre. I might try it if I've got a list which is built to throw vehicles forward with the wartrike, and get M9+D6" kans charging at the enemy. They might also make reasonable objective squatters, and may even do well enough to stomp any unwary characters if they forget to hide, or their screen gets cleared by 5D6 skorcha hits. Maybe that's their calling - clear a screen thencharge a character. It's a shame all the ork strats don't work on them - tellyporta + ramming speed on 6 of these could be pretty awesome.


On the subject of Ramming Speed - has anyone ever thought to use it on a Deffkopta? I realised in my last game (before the kopta died) that, as a vehicle, it's allowed to use it. Perhaps a lone Kopta could prove a viable character-sniper, in fortuitous circumstances? appear 9" away, shot something else, ramming speed the character for D3 Mortal Wounds. Keep a second kopta for the next turn and do it again!

I'd consider kanz only in a Tin 'Eadz or Grot Mobs detachment. The latter shouldn't be hard to field even competitively as Mek Gunz are still a useful unit. Investing 2 CPs for giving re-rolls to 10ish models is better than using a stratagem, the real downside is the 50 points tax for Gretchins which aren't completely useless anyway and it's cheaper than the Banner Nob tax.

So, even without any support, 5 kanz with 6++ and re-rolling 1s plus a kustom job could maybe be decent enough to worth a try. Orkymatic pistons was my favorite kustom job for them during 8th (only played kanz in full Tin Eadz lists in may-june) but sparkly bitz is also good on a rokkit squad if there aren't any KMB dreads or naut in the list.

5 Grot Mobs Kanz with Rokkits and Sparkly Bitz is probably the way I'd field them.

 some bloke wrote:
I'm still puzzling over how to make Killa Kans work. There has to be some way to make them at least playable, if not competitive.

Put three of them stacked on each other in a trenchcoat and use as morkanaut

However, it's a lot of support and points to make a bad unit mediocre. I might try it if I've got a list which is built to throw vehicles forward with the wartrike, and get M9+D6" kans charging at the enemy. They might also make reasonable objective squatters, and may even do well enough to stomp any unwary characters if they forget to hide, or their screen gets cleared by 5D6 skorcha hits. Maybe that's their calling - clear a screen thencharge a character. It's a shame all the ork strats don't work on them - tellyporta + ramming speed on 6 of these could be pretty awesome.

This is pretty much the way to do it. Put them in a list with other vehicles and just let them do their thing. With the changes to morale they aren't horrible anymore, so they have decent chance of clobbering someone off an objective. I'd just suggest putting rokkits on them, since they are the only gun that is likely to have a serious impact even when shot in low numbers. Skorchas are too expensive and have too little impact.
Something also worth noting is that kanz actually do benefit from the tin 'eads subculture - if my memory doesn't fail me you were looking into creating a dread army anyways, so tin 'eads would be something worth looking into.

On the subject of Ramming Speed - has anyone ever thought to use it on a Deffkopta? I realised in my last game (before the kopta died) that, as a vehicle, it's allowed to use it. Perhaps a lone Kopta could prove a viable character-sniper, in fortuitous circumstances? appear 9" away, shot something else, ramming speed the character for D3 Mortal Wounds. Keep a second kopta for the next turn and do it again!

I have occasionally, but it's more of an opportunity thing. I wouldn't plan around it, as d3 mortal wounds are not going to assassinate a character worth assassinating.
If I use ramming speed on koptas, it's usually to jump across intervening models to charge a long-range shooting unit, or a unit that is unlikely to kill the kopta like a large blob of sisters or horrors.

Looks like another excellent event outing for the boyz, and of multiple colors to boot:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-europe-and-down-under/

Personally, the second list looks pretty interesting. A reasonable amount of boyz, visions of smoke on da boomer and lots deff skulls MANz with PKs. It's really amazing how many different ork builds are doing well right now.

 Jidmah wrote:
Personally, the second list looks pretty interesting. A reasonable amount of boyz, visions of smoke on da boomer and lots deff skulls MANz with PKs. It's really amazing how many different ork builds are doing well right now.

Triple MSU deff koptas too.

9th is a wild edition.

Edit: personally though, I think these horde lists are only doing well because the boogeymen are elite armies ( Custodes, SM ). As soon as that stops being true and people bring even a couple hairs more horde clearing I would wager these boy lists stop placing.

The second list confused me a bit. I guess its more of a take and hold list than anything since 10 man squads with no trukks are kinda useless except for holding objectives imo

Yeah it works great to do secondaries, actions and run onto objectives. Also the Evil Sunz Boys are really fast and can raise banners on objectives that are placed 9" from the deployment zone with their 6" movement turn 1. Also there is a chance the opponent looses firepower if he overkills units but if you have 2 dudes left there is also a good chance 1 will survive the attrition test.

Second list is really interesting. Wonder why he chose PK Meganobs - strict WYSIWYG and lack of models? I don`t see the kustom shootas doing much and it`s just 6 points more to equipp all with dual saws.

Nice to see he used Stormboys and Koptas for secondaries as well and 3 x 10 Kommandos with PK sounds really cool and they have some additional thread potential.

Adding 1 Boomer would not have been my choice for that kind of list to be honest, but i guess it kinda helped the Meganobs and vice versa.
And even with visions it`s what, about 8 hits if da boomer shoots twice? So 3-4 Dead Primaris and not even enough to kill a T7 vehicle on average.
Feels more like a gun magnet here than being that good. But hey, if it works.

3 MANz deathskull unit has a serious chance to do damage just a few times and you can use reroll on PK damage + custom shootas can do some damage to sam geq stinking around. But is it better than 2xkillsaw? I'm not sure.....

I think the article mentioned him using the MANz to sit on objectives. With that in mind, the shootas make slightly more sense.

Just noticed the necron void dragon ctan is getting the ghaz wound per phase limit but at 3 wounds per phase... plus he can heal himself by killing vehicles...

GW is going to hand out that ability to a lot of units in this edition... I honestly think it’s a bad idea giving abilities like this to artificially make units immune.

Same.
Its fine on Ghaz because he cant hide. The Void Dragon can, and im feeling a bit dirty knowing i just bought into necrons and that beast is coming lol

 Jidmah wrote:
I think the article mentioned him using the MANz to sit on objectives. With that in mind, the shootas make slightly more sense.

Hmm ok. Still he brought Da Jump and if they ever see CC those 3 extra attacks + better AP is always superior. But hey, he went second so it worked out for him.

Just noticed the necron void dragon ctan is getting the ghaz wound per phase limit but at 3 wounds per phase... plus he can heal himself by killing vehicles...

GW is going to hand out that ability to a lot of units in this edition... I honestly think it’s a bad idea giving abilities like this to artificially make units immune.

Well there was already an FAQ that said attacks that ignore rules like "just get x damage per phase" ignore rules like the one Ghazzi has, so it was to expect to see more of this stuff.
Let`s see what units get those kind of rules first. As far as i know there have not been any so far.

gungo wrote:
Just noticed the necron void dragon ctan is getting the ghaz wound per phase limit but at 3 wounds per phase... plus he can heal himself by killing vehicles...

GW is going to hand out that ability to a lot of units in this edition... I honestly think it’s a bad idea giving abilities like this to artificially make units immune.

Dont forget as the datasheet currently stands, Ctan are characters so he would get character protection on top of it

 Billagio wrote:

gungo wrote:
Just noticed the necron void dragon ctan is getting the ghaz wound per phase limit but at 3 wounds per phase... plus he can heal himself by killing vehicles...

GW is going to hand out that ability to a lot of units in this edition... I honestly think it’s a bad idea giving abilities like this to artificially make units immune.

Dont forget as the datasheet currently stands, Ctan are characters so he would get character protection on top of it

Yeah, that's my main concern. Between character protection and healing options built into the Void Dragon, it's going to have to cost a lot of offset that durability.

Sooo, we've seen a bit for both Crons and Marines. Anyone else feel like a fair bit of bloat is already starting to occur?

cody.d. wrote:
Sooo, we've seen a bit for both Crons and Marines. Anyone else feel like a fair bit of bloat is already starting to occur?

I think bloat is going full steam when we see all the weapon updates giving out more shots, and more damage. Only characters like ghaz will survive and vehicles will just melt. Then Gw is just creating needless caveats like ghaz good dragon damage restriction and then handing out abilities that ignore those restrictions etc