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 gorgon wrote:
I'm gonna guess that any future xenos expansion would involve Orks or Eldar. They have classic Titan designs to pull from, and are entities operating in the early '30Ks', unlike Tau, Necrons, and Tyranids. I'm also going to guess that Orks and Eldar would be years down the road.

Honestly the only reason this game is set in the 30k era is the same as the original; to have an explanation for the same models fighting on both sides. There's nothing to stop them releasing later campaign books that are set 10,000 years later. I wouldn't expect any Xenos to show up in the 30k setting.

If Epic ever does get redone, I’d really appreciate it if the Imperial Guard were the first plastics released and the Space Marines were the resin masterworks that hardly anyone bought.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
At last year's Warhammer Fest, Tony Cottrell described Epic - all editions, from Space Marine in 1989 to Epic 40,000 twenty years later as "a distraction" from the core concept of Adeptus Titanicus; giant robots smacking each other in the face. He was being light-hearted, but I think it's clear that his interest is in the titans, and primarily Imperial titans, and anything smaller is a sideshow at best.

While I'm hoping for all the tanks and infantry to eventually be reintroduced to the game as much as the next guy, I have to admit that Titanicus is all about the Titans at its core. That's how it stated way back, and it makes sense to start it again that way now.

Yep. I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face

Adeptus Titanicus should remain a game about Titans, and only Titans. It should be about replicating the decisions a Princeps has to make when facing other God-Engines - not tap dancing on infantry.

But we'll also be needing Epic, to replicate colossal, world shattering battles, from the perspective of a War Leader in orbit, beholding the battle on the Hololith.

Going to be fun having this conversation over and over for the next few years. Yay.

If I'm understanding this right, this new game is starting out as a new version of Titan Legions but without all the supporting units. I remember something about the FW guys eventually wanting to expand it to the full Epic line but I may just have misread something.

So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

 Albertorius wrote:
So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

I thought they were around the same height as the Redemptor.

 Breotan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

I thought they were around the same height as the Redemptor.

If this is any indication of size...



...I'd say they are significantly bigger than that.

 Breotan wrote:
If I'm understanding this right, this new game is starting out as a new version of Titan Legions but without all the supporting units. I remember something about the FW guys eventually wanting to expand it to the full Epic line but I may just have misread something.

Well no, it's a reimagining of the 1988 game Adeptus Titanicus, which had only titans and no supporting units.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Adeptus Titanicus should remain a game about Titans, and only Titans. It should be about replicating the decisions a Princeps has to make when facing other God-Engines - not tap dancing on infantry.

That's missing the most important part of titan combat: when an IG Shadowsword company hidden in some ruins opens fire and one-shots a titan, because tanks always beat walkers. Until Epic is released and adds proper tanks to the game it will always be a disappointment.

tneva82 wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Would titans even be warped by the Siege of Terra? Other than Death Guard and some ritualistic stuff by the Word Bearers, seems like traitors would still be relatively mundane by that point?

There's references to warped titans in the old fluff regarding siege of terra so barring gw retconning it yes.

Yeah the older stories, such as The Siege of the Imperial Palace short story from White Dwarf has everything pretty damn warped and chaotic. The primarchs had become daemon princes, Titan Landers with glowing chaotic symbols are mentioned, daemon hoardes along with cultists and mutants, cult marines, etc being brought against the palace. The Vengeful Spirit is described as having decks of living tissue, veins and a beating heart, walls made from tongues as well when the Empy teleported onboard so yeah... warped. That story was almost word for word Incorporated into the text last book in the Horus Heresy art books which came out in 2006ish IIRC. Unless I am mistaken that's about the newest detailed accounting of the Siege. So yes barring a major retcon it seems appropriate to expect some major chaos action and add-on parts/opportunities in this game to come along.

 Breotan wrote:
If I'm understanding this right, this new game is starting out as a new version of Titan Legions but without all the supporting units. I remember something about the FW guys eventually wanting to expand it to the full Epic line but I may just have misread something.

As much as designers (perhaps) would like the game to be focused sorely on Titans without other elements from Epic line lets be clear on something - if the game will sale beyond their expectations we will most likely see an expansion with tanks/soldiers eventually.

If the game sales really well it would be really weird not to do so.

P.S. After afcouse releasing all the Xenos races Titans.

Glumy wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
If I'm understanding this right, this new game is starting out as a new version of Titan Legions but without all the supporting units. I remember something about the FW guys eventually wanting to expand it to the full Epic line but I may just have misread something.

As much as designers (perhaps) would like the game to be focused sorely on Titans without other elements from Epic line lets be clear on something - if the game will sale beyond their expectations we will most likely see an expansion with tanks/soldiers eventually.

If the game sales really well it would be really weird not to do so.

P.S. After afcouse releasing all the Xenos races Titans.

Lets be clear. If they want to go down that rout it will effectively be a new, separate, game requireing an all new rule set as the detail and minutia of the rules of AT wont remotely suit a large scale battle game like Epic.

The original Titan Legions sort of nibbled its way into Epic.

That is, when they started it was all Imperial titans in the Heresy. Then they introduced Eldar and Ork titans. Then, at last, they rolled out Land Raiders, and that started the ball rolling.

To that end, I think Leman Russ tank companies or Land Raider tank companies would be great fun to add to a titan game. But for now, I'm more than delighted just to have these plastic imperial titans.

Xenos?

Xenos?

Forget Xenos! I want Homo Sapiens Rotundus!

Leviathans! Colossi! Goliath Mega Cannons! Land Trains! Overlord Gunships!

GW make it happen!

Oggthrok wrote:
The original Titan Legions sort of nibbled its way into Epic.

That is, when they started it was all Imperial titans in the Heresy. Then they introduced Eldar and Ork titans. Then, at last, they rolled out Land Raiders, and that started the ball rolling.

To that end, I think Leman Russ tank companies or Land Raider tank companies would be great fun to add to a titan game. But for now, I'm more than delighted just to have these plastic imperial titans.

That was Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine, not Titan Legions.

As a data point re: whether or not the AT and Epic rulesets should be kept separate...

(insert wibbly wobbly timey wimey special effect here)

Back in the doldrum days of Epic 40,000--after it had crashed, burned and ended up on life support for a few years under the care of Fanatic, later renamed Specialist Games--Jervis Johnson and co decided to shake things up a little by refocusing the game on Titan vs Titan combat.

At the time, Titans behaved like capital ships in Battlefleet Gothic. In fact, that's where the BFG rules came from. They had damage tables and fire arcs and so on, but lacked the detailed control boards and reactor rules from earlier editions of Epic.

In Epic Magazine #1, Fanatic released new rules--announced as official changes, so everybody 'had' to use them--that reintroduced complex Adeptus Titanicus-style combat into the Epic game. Going by the reaction in the letters pages, the player base was unhappy with the change. It just didn't work in the context of a game chockers with infantry and tanks. It was too complex and cumbersome for a ruleset previously renowned (and often reviled) for streamlined elegance. The new rules interacted with the rank-and-file troops and with blast markers in wonky ways. It was all a bit of a shemozzle.

Jervis and co took note of the feedback and decided that the new 'ATII' rules were better off as a separate game featuring only Titans and superheavies. They reversed their earlier 'official revision' declaration, split ATII off from Epic, and continued adding to it in later issues of the Epic mag, concurrent with the development of Epic Armageddon. (They did point out that at least the controversy had sparked renewed interest in Epic.)

Personally, I think the way Epic 40,000 handles the Titans works well for a game that includes tanks and infantry. They still feel ponderous, weighty and powerful on the table without slowing things down. Epic Armageddon simplifies them a bit too much for my taste. (Ironic, given that E:A reintroduced complexity and detail to the tanks and infantry that had been stripped out in Epic 40K...)

I'd love to see superheavy tanks in the new AT, though. And I'd happily scatter infantry and tanks around purely as decoration, or maybe objectives. From a purely visual standpoint they help to show just how big the Titans are.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Xenos?

Xenos?

Forget Xenos! I want Homo Sapiens Rotundus!

Leviathans! Colossi! Goliath Mega Cannons! Land Trains! Overlord Gunships!

GW make it happen!

Having played a few games against Epic Squats this year (using the 3rd ed / Epic 40,000 rules), I can confirm that Land Trains and Overlords are sweet as. Also scary when pointing their guns at your Gargant. I always found Squats a bit silly in 40K, but at Epic scale they seem to fit.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

I thought they were around the same height as the Redemptor.

If this is any indication of size...
...I'd say they are significantly bigger than that.

So the Knights are on ....32mm? Or 40mm?

And that Warlord is on a flyer oval while the Reaver is on a medium oval? That right?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

I thought they were around the same height as the Redemptor.

If this is any indication of size...
...I'd say they are significantly bigger than that.

So the Knights are on ....32mm? Or 40mm?

And that Warlord is on a flyer oval while the Reaver is on a medium oval? That right?

AFAIK, the knights are about terminator-sized, so 40mm would be my guess. The Reaver seems to be on the same base as the Tau ghostkeel armor.

 Albertorius wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
So... those Warlords aren't much smaller than a 40k knight, are they. Well, feth.

I thought they were around the same height as the Redemptor.

If this is any indication of size...
...I'd say they are significantly bigger than that.

So the Knights are on ....32mm? Or 40mm?

And that Warlord is on a flyer oval while the Reaver is on a medium oval? That right?

AFAIK, the knights are about terminator-sized, so 40mm would be my guess. The Reaver seems to be on the same base as the Tau ghostkeel armor.

40mm for Knights, 105mm oval for Reaver, meaning the Warlord is on the 120mm oval.

Pretty good size for painting and modelling. Hopefully they do some more scenery options that include like wrecked tanks and stuff. Would add the battlefield ambiance of vehicles without having them as units.

I dont know what they are expecting when it comes to sales.

From what i know they wanted resin models but changed them to plastic after releasing new Blood Bowl when it sold more than they presumed.

I presume (blindly) Adeptus Titanicus will also sell really well. Enough to make Orks and Eldar titans. I dunno if enough to make another Epic but its a possibility.

Chopstick wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Trouble with introducing Tau is that they’d likely end up in the same niche as Eldar - relying on speed and sneakiness, rather than sheer firepower.

Don't know about epic but the largest Tau war machine atm is literally sheer firepower : The Taunar and the Stormsurge. Unless you also count the Tiger Shark, which is a Fighter Jet.

The Manta destroyer was the largest thing in Epic for the Tau. It was pretty nifty and could drop a whole hunter cadre somewhere useful.

So all this drooling over the new models has got me interested in revisiting the original Adeptus Titanicus ruleset while I wait for the new one.

Is there anywhere that has kept the game alive online the way Blood Bowl and others were?

I'd like to find a ruleset and also the rules and cards for playing Reavers and Warhounds.

Any ideas?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

40mm for Knights, 105mm oval for Reaver, meaning the Warlord is on the 120mm oval.

Pretty good size for painting and modelling. Hopefully they do some more scenery options that include like wrecked tanks and stuff. Would add the battlefield ambiance of vehicles without having them as units.

Base appears to be round, not oval:



Is there a round 120mm base?

It is probably the same base as used by the Onager.

 Albertorius wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

40mm for Knights, 105mm oval for Reaver, meaning the Warlord is on the 120mm oval.

Pretty good size for painting and modelling. Hopefully they do some more scenery options that include like wrecked tanks and stuff. Would add the battlefield ambiance of vehicles without having them as units.

Base appears to be round, not oval:



Is there a round 120mm base?

I stared at that picture until my eyes crossed thinking it was the big round but for some reason I thought it was maybe just a weird angle or something and thought it had to be the large flying oval. Huh. So it is the 130mm round then?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yep. I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face

Adeptus Titanicus should remain a game about Titans, and only Titans. It should be about replicating the decisions a Princeps has to make when facing other God-Engines - not tap dancing on infantry.

But we'll also be needing Epic, to replicate colossal, world shattering battles, from the perspective of a War Leader in orbit, beholding the battle on the Hololith.

How many of you bought 40k Knight vs Knight game? Where those two knights were included in a game? Did that product fly off the shelves? How different is that game from this version of AT if you are only going to have limited units that are so large that many of the weapon ranges look ridiculous? And if you think the games should only involve Titans? Why be excited about the Knights? They are really just more mobile tanks. If you can have Knights, you can certainly have Shadow Swords and Baneblades. And if you can have those, why stop there? Why would you limit a scale that so many people what to see to a system that is only playable with a few units?

I know this version is a nod to the original AT, but don't forget that rules for tanks and infantry for AT came out almost immediately after AT came out in White Dwarf. Just because they weren't in the box set doesn't mean that didn't have a plan for them. And considering what I have seen from GW newer White Dwarf model, I don't see that happening this time around.

Look, I love the original AT, but it isn't what blew the doors open for Epic. It was the introduction of infantry and vehicles. If GW DOESN'T come up with a plan to introduce infantry and vehicles to this scale, no one is going to be playing this game in a year. It will just join the shelves with the other one-off box sets.

And also about ATII. No one cared about ATII. I was heavy into Epic at the time and even playing Epic40k and on the EpicA playtesting team. No one cared about that system. Everyone's focus was on the combined arms of infantry, vehicles, and Titans, which is where it should be.

And the larger the model, and it looks like the new Warlord is more than twice the size of the original (even bigger than the Imperator), the more space it takes up on the board. This means either its going to be really slow, or to keep the game interesting, have a pretty liberal movement rate that I am sure is going to be combined with short weapon ranges, because few people are going to want a game where each side can pelt each other from across the table in the opening round. But at that size and scale, these models should. So they will be given really ridiculously short weapon ranges to encourage movement and flanking attacks. Its just going to be silly.

Its amazing that the original AT came with 6 warlords, so 3 models per side right out of the box, with a variety or ways to arm them. This one comes with two, and a few cannon fodder. I would rather have smaller models and more of them in the set. But I expect I will be the only one to feel this way, so everyone chime in and tell me I am wrong....

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

I stared at that picture until my eyes crossed thinking it was the big round but for some reason I thought it was maybe just a weird angle or something and thought it had to be the large flying oval. Huh. So it is the 130mm round then?

Ghostkeel's base is 105 oval, so at this moment I'd say it's quite possible it is a round 130, unless there's any other bigger oval base.

Size/shape of base: Base is likely 120mm x 90mm oval (same as the Dreadknight, Valkyrie etc.) It's definitely oval, as can be seen in the pictures in the opening post: