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Deadawake1347 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
well when you have 144 shots blasting in on 3'1. rerolling 1's... That's 127 hits at STR 5. Just sayin. Even against T4, and 3+ saves (MEQ) you're doing more than 21 usaved wounds with just those four units. A bit scary. Most marine armies have like 50-60 models at the best of times so....This would be quite a blow from less than 400 points of your army. This does require the Markerlights to make it work so its not TRULY less than 400 points of your army, but it illustrates the point.You could definitely march forward with confidence using that kind of firepower.

Which means you either brought a massive amount of markerlights in order to get five on several targets, or you overkilled a single squad and your effectiveness drops considerably from there.

In my experience it's best not to assume you'll ever have a 3+ to hit, even if you're taking a decent amount of markerlights. Either your opponent is not so foolish as to ignore them, or in the case that they do, it's still better to get one markerlight on several enemy units than it is to get several on one. I've played over a dozen games, and I've gotten five markerlights on a Target exactly once. Usually I end up with three, which is essentially the same as one in most cases, or four, which is wasted when the target is not in cover.

Buuuut, those are all issues with markerlights, honestly.

When you have 2 marksmen hitting on 3+ and 2 fireblades hitting on 2+ it shouldn't be that hard to get 5 hits with 1 pathfinder squad sitting inside the gunrig so the enemy cannot kill them easily. Or you can take a droneport with fireblade and 4 marker drones. That's 5 marker hits that all hit on 2+. Add in an extra pathfinder squad and your all sorted.

7-Zark-7 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

7-Zark-7 wrote:

4. Can a Missle Pod be deployed on the Shieldline, when there are already 10 models "embarked"? If not, where can it be deployed?
I assume you mean the Tactical Support Turret. No. The Strike Team models are not placed on the battlefield thus cannot fulfill the requirements to deploy the turret. Rules as of now make this fortification a fancy transport. That begs the question.... can an already 10 model strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if it includes a turret that would make it 11 models?
Index Xenos 2 pages 57 and 76.

Can't move the Turret for any reason, Embarking is considered a form of movement.

As you also said, can't place it in coherency while inside.

Agreed, and still does not answer the question, can a 10 FW strong unit be embarked on the Shieldline if they include a turret? Remember, the unit can start the game embarked.

A Turret never starts on the field, at the end of a turn a FW team can place the Turret in Coherency.

This means that 'Yes' you CAN be inside a Shield Line/Devilfish if the unit "includes" a turret.
The turret is NOT be deployed, it will basically be in storage awaiting to be deployed.

The unit may NOT deploy a turret while it is inside a Shield Line/Devilfish

A unit that embarks into a Shield Line/Devilfish would destroy the turret upon entering

Basically, there is no way to have a Turret shooting from inside a Shield Line or Devilfish

How do you protect your gunrigs from melee? It seems that they're exactly the kind of unit that a Landspeeder or assault marine will rush over and tie into melee. They don't fly, so that firepower goes kaput.

It's the main reason I haven't started eyeballin' 'em.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
well when you have 144 shots blasting in on 3'1. rerolling 1's... That's 127 hits at STR 5. Just sayin. Even against T4, and 3+ saves (MEQ) you're doing more than 21 usaved wounds with just those four units. A bit scary. Most marine armies have like 50-60 models at the best of times so....This would be quite a blow from less than 400 points of your army. This does require the Markerlights to make it work so its not TRULY less than 400 points of your army, but it illustrates the point.You could definitely march forward with confidence using that kind of firepower.

Which means you either brought a massive amount of markerlights in order to get five on several targets, or you overkilled a single squad and your effectiveness drops considerably from there.

In my experience it's best not to assume you'll ever have a 3+ to hit, even if you're taking a decent amount of markerlights. Either your opponent is not so foolish as to ignore them, or in the case that they do, it's still better to get one markerlight on several enemy units than it is to get several on one. I've played over a dozen games, and I've gotten five markerlights on a Target exactly once. Usually I end up with three, which is essentially the same as one in most cases, or four, which is wasted when the target is not in cover.

Buuuut, those are all issues with markerlights, honestly.

Whereas I get five on two targets basicaklly every time fo th first couple rounds. That's where we differ.

Opponents can't stop 28 Markerlights, 14 of which are secluded inside Gunrigs, though they sorely would like to I suppose? If I nix two entire squads... or...I kill 7 Custodes this way ( as an example. since I do face them now) well... Winning!

Wakshaani wrote:
How do you protect your gunrigs from melee? It seems that they're exactly the kind of unit that a Landspeeder or assault marine will rush over and tie into melee. They don't fly, so that firepower goes kaput.

It's the main reason I haven't started eyeballin' 'em.

They can still shoot even when an enemy is within 1". Passengers are stopped from shooting but this is one use for the hounds. To counter charge or slow down the assault marines.

Wakshaani wrote:
How do you protect your gunrigs from melee? It seems that they're exactly the kind of unit that a Landspeeder or assault marine will rush over and tie into melee. They don't fly, so that firepower goes kaput.

It's the main reason I haven't started eyeballin' 'em.

deploy them quite far from the enemy and/or bubblewrap them with stuff you'd normally put inside

The Kroot and their Vanguard move creates a halo for my Gunrigs and such when I don't go first, and then the Kroot Hounds push out and hide, threatening anything that comes from the flanks on their first turn. So it usually makes it difficult for anyone to grapple me quickly. So the enemy is usually not getting to me until round 3. By then, they may not really be too focused on a Gunrig. maybe they will;, but at that point I will care less.

Okay so how are Tau going to be balanced, here are a couple of themes are going to be addressed;

1) Markerlights (lots of room to do different things here, perhaps using CP to use alternate tables)

2) Commander Spam (I think this may just be a limit on the weapon loadouts. I've seen supicious 3-weapon only load-outs on commanders on certain Frontline gaming battle reports, maybe increase points or remove the Character rule.

3) Riptide (Cost and/or weapon stat change)

4) Stormsurge (The only thing that needs adjusting here is the destroyer missed and the main weapon options.. to make them actually threatening, for the cost).

5) The general use of CP to make certain units more viable or provide interesting unique effects.

6) Possibility of expanding on the Mont'ka and Kauyon themes. Thinking chapter tactics?

Thoughts? Missed anything vital?

Razerous wrote:
Okay so how are Tau going to be balanced, here are a couple of themes are going to be addressed;

1) Markerlights (lots of room to do different things here, perhaps using CP to use alternate tables)

2) Commander Spam (I think this may just be a limit on the weapon loadouts. I've seen supicious 3-weapon only load-outs on commanders on certain Frontline gaming battle reports, maybe increase points or remove the Character rule.

3) Riptide (Cost and/or weapon stat change)

4) Stormsurge (The only thing that needs adjusting here is the destroyer missed and the main weapon options.. to make them actually threatening, for the cost).

5) The general use of CP to make certain units more viable or provide interesting unique effects.

6) Possibility of expanding on the Mont'ka and Kauyon themes. Thinking chapter tactics?

Thoughts? Missed anything vital?

The reason Commander Spam is an issue is that they overpriced a lot of our units for the firepower they bring (such as Crisis suits, Broadsides etc.), not to mention the loss of the game mechanic which made some of those units viable and which had been a core feature of the army from its very inception (jump-shoot-jump).

Making Commanders less effective does not fix the reason that it is being used, which is that the rest of our sources of equivalent firepower are now mediocre for the points you pay. Then there is the clusterfeth of the current markerlight system and its frequent clashes with our support systems which means that if you're packing markerlights you basically have no need of support systems except for some drone controllers or shield generators.

Razerous wrote:
Okay so how are Tau going to be balanced, here are a couple of themes are going to be addressed;

1) Markerlights (lots of room to do different things here, perhaps using CP to use alternate tables)

2) Commander Spam (I think this may just be a limit on the weapon loadouts. I've seen supicious 3-weapon only load-outs on commanders on certain Frontline gaming battle reports, maybe increase points or remove the Character rule.

3) Riptide (Cost and/or weapon stat change)

4) Stormsurge (The only thing that needs adjusting here is the destroyer missed and the main weapon options.. to make them actually threatening, for the cost).

5) The general use of CP to make certain units more viable or provide interesting unique effects.

6) Possibility of expanding on the Mont'ka and Kauyon themes. Thinking chapter tactics?

Thoughts? Missed anything vital?

Reduce Commanders to 3 Systems + 1 Command System

Reduce the cost of everything not named Drone or Commander by like 20-40%

Razerous wrote:
Okay so how are Tau going to be balanced, here are a couple of themes are going to be addressed;

1) Markerlights (lots of room to do different things here, perhaps using CP to use alternate tables)

2) Commander Spam (I think this may just be a limit on the weapon loadouts. I've seen supicious 3-weapon only load-outs on commanders on certain Frontline gaming battle reports, maybe increase points or remove the Character rule.

3) Riptide (Cost and/or weapon stat change)

4) Stormsurge (The only thing that needs adjusting here is the destroyer missed and the main weapon options.. to make them actually threatening, for the cost).

5) The general use of CP to make certain units more viable or provide interesting unique effects.

6) Possibility of expanding on the Mont'ka and Kauyon themes. Thinking chapter tactics?

Thoughts? Missed anything vital?

The Riptide pricing definitely needs revisiting but we'll see about that. I dont know where the happy medium is but we can easily see that its too expensive right now.

The Stormsurge seems pretty threatening even with its current missiles and Im not so sure i agree here. i kind of think they hit the nail o nthe head. i dont want to go back to the Warhammer where there just was never any question about what to take in a super build. i like the variety of units im now seeing. No one wants a repeat of the hate that sometimes accompanied some units.

I hope they have SEPT SPECIFIC stuff like they did for Chaos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talamare wrote:


Reduce the cost of everything not named Drone or Commander by like 20-40%

Seems a bit extreme. Lol.

 Jancoran wrote:
Seems a bit extreme. Lol.

I think it was Extreme to increase our costs going into 8e by 200-400% when other armies saw around a 20-30% increase

Razerous wrote:
Okay so how are Tau going to be balanced, here are a couple of themes are going to be addressed;

1) Markerlights (lots of room to do different things here, perhaps using CP to use alternate tables)

2) Commander Spam (I think this may just be a limit on the weapon loadouts. I've seen supicious 3-weapon only load-outs on commanders on certain Frontline gaming battle reports, maybe increase points or remove the Character rule.

3) Riptide (Cost and/or weapon stat change)

4) Stormsurge (The only thing that needs adjusting here is the destroyer missed and the main weapon options.. to make them actually threatening, for the cost).

5) The general use of CP to make certain units more viable or provide interesting unique effects.

6) Possibility of expanding on the Mont'ka and Kauyon themes. Thinking chapter tactics?

Thoughts? Missed anything vital?

1- yeah, I think the table needs some improvements

2- 3w+1ss will still make people use Commanders. Fix Crisis and Broadsides first. At most, increase Commander points to 200 when carrying 4 fusion blasters. Also, no way they'll remove Character from him - makes absolutely no sense.

3- yep

4- let it be a battlesuit and it magically becomes much more interesting. Destroyer and Seeker missiles are a problem on themselves

5- this is too broad. Units shouldn't become more viable because of CP, but because they're balanced towards each other. CP is better used for 'special effects' stuff.

6- We already know that AdMech will get rules for 7 forge worlds. It's not a stretch to think that Tau will get rules for 7 septs as well, similar to chapter tactics. I don't think they'll interact with Mont'ka/Kayuon.

 DortmundOutpost wrote:

7-Zark-7 wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.

1. May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?
No. It is a fortification with a transport capacity. See the embarked models rules.
BrB page 183


7-Zark-7

Thank you very much!

I am going to have to disagree with the ruling on being able to deploy troop in the fortification. At minimum all of the T'au fortifications also have the key word transport. So YES a person can deploy the fortification and them put troops in them.

 Talamare wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Seems a bit extreme. Lol.

I think it was Extreme to increase our costs going into 8e by 200-400% when other armies saw around a 20-30% increase

Thats a bit hyperbolic don't you think? in general infantry went down and in general NOT-infantry went up. Armor for some armies costs a LOT more and so I mean? I dunno. I thik they missed a little on Broadsides and Riptides, but other than those two i havent really been "offended" by the cost changes. Some stuff got cheaper and better!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishotfirst wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:

7-Zark-7 wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.

1. May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?
No. It is a fortification with a transport capacity. See the embarked models rules.
BrB page 183


7-Zark-7

Thank you very much!

I am going to have to disagree with the ruling on being able to deploy troop in the fortification. At minimum all of the T'au fortifications also have the key word transport. So YES a person can deploy the fortification and them put troops in them.

Transport means transport. So.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishotfirst wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:

7-Zark-7 wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Hello,

i just played a game with a friend. We are both new players.
I play Daemons, he plays Tau. While playing, a few questions concerning his Tau force occured.

1. May units be set up on a Tidewall Shieldline (Deployment)?
No. It is a fortification with a transport capacity. See the embarked models rules.
BrB page 183


7-Zark-7

Thank you very much!

I am going to have to disagree with the ruling on being able to deploy troop in the fortification. At minimum all of the T'au fortifications also have the key word transport. So YES a person can deploy the fortification and them put troops in them.

Transport means transport. So.

 Ishotfirst wrote:

I was pointing out the flaw in the ruling given to a fellow player as to not have it be a super weird moment for them in a future game.

Transport key word versus Dedicated transport unit type. Even GW means Key word Transport because it is in the first line of the rule. But if you want to take the position of telling me I can't put my dudes in my forts by all means. . . No using the scenario play type.




Also I loved the list you put up it definitely gives me the I can play T'au again and not commander spam. I plan putting up a 1600 point list in he not to distant future to see what people think.

Yeah I ttoally got what you were saying.

And thank you. For sure, don't be afraid to experiment with ideas.

I saw a really good list recently that featured three Ghostkeels. Those Ghostkeels were my favorite things at the end of 7th. I was just so jazzed that they found a way to make the Stealthsuits good. The Ghostkeels were the solo reason I had for being sad for an 8th Edition. But it turns out, they re actually QUITE good still and I have gotten to see it perform very well.

Stealth suits themselves are a lot tougher now and so they make a world of sense compared to their old form (not that it ever stopped ME ,but Im just saying, they ARE better now). I saw a guy do most of his damage during one game using them and of course Shadowsun.

Yet another guy in our gaming circles who doesnt really play tournaments like we do but does play somewhat frequently has a bunch of Stingwings and he does well with em.

I am not surprised at the fall from grace of the Riptide. the points are...intense...for that model now. I need to get a list together and try them again. I play so many forces that its hard to get to everything but I imagine I could figure a way to use them.

While the Riptide isn’t worth the pts at least it works. Last time I used the Riptide it was a marine killer. Novacharged the Burst every turn with ATS and those 12 shots, S6 -3AP was wiping out marine units a turn. They would take so many wounds they would fail the morale check and lose more. Still I would rather pay a little extra and take a stormsurge.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Ishotfirst wrote:

I was pointing out the flaw in the ruling given to a fellow player as to not have it be a super weird moment for them in a future game.

Transport key word versus Dedicated transport unit type. Even GW means Key word Transport because it is in the first line of the rule. But if you want to take the position of telling me I can't put my dudes in my forts by all means. . . No using the scenario play type.




Also I loved the list you put up it definitely gives me the I can play T'au again and not commander spam. I plan putting up a 1600 point list in he not to distant future to see what people think.

Yeah I ttoally got what you were saying.

And thank you. For sure, don't be afraid to experiment with ideas.

I saw a really good list recently that featured three Ghostkeels. Those Ghostkeels were my favorite things at the end of 7th. I was just so jazzed that they found a way to make the Stealthsuits good. The Ghostkeels were the solo reason I had for being sad for an 8th Edition. But it turns out, they re actually QUITE good still and I have gotten to see it perform very well.

Stealth suits themselves are a lot tougher now and so they make a world of sense compared to their old form (not that it ever stopped ME ,but Im just saying, they ARE better now). I saw a guy do most of his damage during one game using them and of course Shadowsun.

Yet another guy in our gaming circles who doesnt really play tournaments like we do but does play somewhat frequently has a bunch of Stingwings and he does well with em.

I am not surprised at the fall from grace of the Riptide. the points are...intense...for that model now. I need to get a list together and try them again. I play so many forces that its hard to get to everything but I imagine I could figure a way to use them.

Alright, you got me interested. Can you tell me more about the three Ghostkeel list? Mine are sitting on a shelf looking really sad.

Ok so here is the list I thought up. Honest thoughts about it? I don't have the fortifications to run it yet but I'm willing bet someone does.

1600 point List (97pl) (1600pts)

Fortification Network (359pts)

5pl Tidewall Droneport: w/4 Marker Drones
5pl Tidewall Droneport: w/4 Marker Drones
7pl Tidewall Gunring: w/supremacy railgun

Battalion Detachment (743pts)

2pl Cadre Fireblade: w/pulse rifle and marker light
2pl Cadre Fireblade: w/pulse rifle and marker light
11pl Longstrike: w/rail-gun, 2 gun drones, 1 seeker missle

3pl Kroot Carnivores x10 w/ kroot rifle
3pl Strike Team x5 w/pulse rifle and pulse pistol for sergeant
3pl Strike Team x5 w/pulse rifle and pulse pistol for sergeant

6pl Pathfinder Team x4 w/ carbine and Markerlight x3 w/Ion Rifle
6pl Pathfinder Team x4 w/ carbine and Markerlight x3 w/Ion Rifle

10pl Hammerhead Gunship w/ rail-gun and 2 gun drones

Outrider Detachment (598pts)

2pl Cadre Fireblade: w/pulse rifle and marker light
2pl Cadre Fireblade: w/pulse rifle and marker light

4pl Tactical Drones: x5 Gun Drones
4pl Tactical Drones: x5 Gun Drones
4pl Tactical Drones: x5 Gun Drones
4pl Tactical Drones: x5 Gun Drones

7pl Devilfish: w/ burst cannon and 2 gun drones
7pl Devilfish: w/ burst cannon and 2 gun drones


The idea is to force the opponent to make tough decisions as to which set of incredibly durable thing they want to kill first. The pathfinders and a fireblade go in the drone ports. The strike teams go in the gunring. 10 drones an a fireblade in each transport. The Kroot are chaff to go in front of the gunring.

The fireblade in the drone port controls the drones and now there are x5 BS:2+ shots. One from the fireblade himself the other from the 4 marker drones. Totaling 10 BS:2+ Marker shots before the following 8 pathfinders even mark their targets.

The fireblade and drones in the transport are going to be the front line of troop removal. Roll up on the marked unit shoot it up and move on. The tanks and gunring shoot the big thing. With marker and long strike it's a high likelihood to hit and wound with the tanks. The pathfinders have their ion rifles to play clean up on troops while the strike teams will support them.

Side note, is there a ruling out there about fortification moving and shooting with the heavy gun? Because I'd keep the gunring still in the backfield if it receives a -1 when it moves.

Hey all,

I'm posting my 2k list to see if I can get some feedback. Its a list that I am trying to help a friend out for this weekends tournament that's a Crucible Qualifier, so I'm trying to make it as competitive as I can with the models I have. Thank for the feed back of helping me possibly make it even better in the future.

Outrider Detachment: 1029pts

1x Coldstar Commander (166)
Shield gen, ATS, 2 gun drones

Troop: 144
Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Elite: 411
3x xv9 Hazard Suits (411)
2- Fusion Cascade, Shield Gen,
1- Burst Cannon, ATS,
4- Gun Drones

Fast Attack: 308
8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

Tactical Drones (32)
4- Gun Drones



Supreme Detachments: 969pts

HQ: 704pt
4x Commander
4- Fusion Blaster
2- Shield Drones

Elite- 265pt
XV8 Crisis suits
2x 2-Plasma Rifles, Shield Gen
1x 2-Plasma Rifles, Drone Controller
4x gun drones
2x marker drones.


Total: 1998


Thanks for the advise.

trinhm03 wrote:
Hey all,

I'm posting my 2k list to see if I can get some feedback. Its a list that I am trying to help a friend out for this weekends tournament that's a Crucible Qualifier, so I'm trying to make it as competitive as I can with the models I have. Thank for the feed back of helping me possibly make it even better in the future.

Outrider Detachment: 1029pts

1x Coldstar Commander (166)
Shield gen, ATS, 2 gun drones

Troop: 144
Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Elite: 411
3x xv9 Hazard Suits (411)
2- Fusion Cascade, Shield Gen,
1- Burst Cannon, ATS,
4- Gun Drones

Fast Attack: 308
8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

Tactical Drones (32)
4- Gun Drones



Supreme Detachments: 969pts

HQ: 704pt
4x Commander
4- Fusion Blaster
2- Shield Drones

Elite- 265pt
XV8 Crisis suits
2x 2-Plasma Rifles, Shield Gen
1x 2-Plasma Rifles, Drone Controller
4x gun drones
2x marker drones.


Total: 1998


Thanks for the advise.

Ok your issue is going to be low model count and possibly getting wrecked if you lose the 1st turn.

Tactically: what ever is on the board needs to cover your backfield to prevent drop-pods and the like.... that is if you plan on staying there.

Your fusion commanders should have a marker drone with them. You only need 1 to hit to have all the fusion hits versus the chance of missing with some. I am not sure as to why you just don't have more pathfinders instead of marker drones. Look at the grav-inhibitor drone for the pathfinders in cover. The additional negative to a charge roll will help more than you think. I'm also wondering why rail-rifles when you have that damage level covered in spades. Going 3 i-r vs 2 r-r may be better in the long run and also free up some points; you could also do 1 r-r and 2 i-r for the same cost.

If the xv9's are deep striking why not bring the extra drones you have a 4 man squad of and put it with them? Each xv9 can take up to 4 drones as war gear. So a mix of gun drones and marker drones there will help the effectiveness as well. Even a shield drone or 2 if they target the drones straight up. Even the trade off for more crisis suits with CIB and ATS or fusion and Shield might work out better (forget the stats on the fusion cascade).

These are all thoughts so take them as you will. What I look for in lists is role and function and what it wants to do. So a drop in to deliver death listl looks differently than my light it up with markers and all the S5 (poke to death)

Pottsey wrote:
While the Riptide isn’t worth the pts at least it works. Last time I used the Riptide it was a marine killer. Novacharged the Burst every turn with ATS and those 12 shots, S6 -3AP was wiping out marine units a turn. They would take so many wounds they would fail the morale check and lose more. Still I would rather pay a little extra and take a stormsurge.

The Stormsurge is kind of a necessary evil because of Magnus and his ilk. I have played against some other really mean models with 30 wounds from ForgeWorld. theres just no way to make it through that many wounds reliably and in a reasonable amount of time without the Stormsurge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fueli wrote:

Alright, you got me interested. Can you tell me more about the three Ghostkeel list? Mine are sitting on a shelf looking really sad.

I will make the attempt to get you that list (or I'll try to recreate it as best i can remember it). Send me a PM so I dont forget about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishotfirst wrote:

Side note, is there a ruling out there about fortification moving and shooting with the heavy gun? Because I'd keep the gunring still in the backfield if it receives a -1 when it moves.

All heavy weapons inflict the penalty unless you have a rule, like power of the machine spirit, to negate it.

trinhm03 wrote:
Hey all,

I'm posting my 2k list to see if I can get some feedback. Its a list that I am trying to help a friend out for this weekends tournament that's a Crucible Qualifier, so I'm trying to make it as competitive as I can with the models I have. Thank for the feed back of helping me possibly make it even better in the future.

Outrider Detachment: 1029pts

1x Coldstar Commander (166)
Shield gen, ATS, 2 gun drones

Troop: 144
Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Strike Team (72)
2x gun drones

Elite: 411
3x xv9 Hazard Suits (411)
2- Fusion Cascade, Shield Gen,
1- Burst Cannon, ATS,
4- Gun Drones

Fast Attack: 308
8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

8x Pathfinder Team (138)
2- Rail Rifle
2- Marker Drones

Tactical Drones (32)
4- Gun Drones

Supreme Detachments: 969pts

HQ: 704pt
4x Commander
4- Fusion Blaster
2- Shield Drones

Elite- 265pt
XV8 Crisis suits
2x 2-Plasma Rifles, Shield Gen
1x 2-Plasma Rifles, Drone Controller
4x gun drones
2x marker drones.

Total: 1998

Thanks for the advise.

I am unsure what the advantage is of putting the Gun Drones in the Fire Warrior Squad or Coldstar. I'd separate those into their own unit. Less kill points to give up. They are already separate from the unit once you deploy anyways. They split fire anyways also... So...

Definitely put three rail rifles in their Pathfinder squads.Someone made an excellent point about the Accelerator Drone being good for then moving to be near the Firewarriors... Seems worth adding.

I think this list is GENERALLY short range (to be effective) and that kinda bugs me. It's got no long range whittling ability. Most of its punch comes at 12-18 inch range. I think you probably need a halo as well. I'd sacrifice a commander and perhaps add the Kroot Mercenaries for the same reason I did: when not going first, you want to force the eenmy OUTward from you. The Kroot Mercenaries do that for you (their Vanguard move). Plus four commanders is probably overkill, especially if they are all short range like yours. Just food for thought.

trinhm03 wrote:

ishotfirst wrote:
Ok your issue is going to be low model count and possibly getting wrecked if you lose the 1st turn.

Tactically: what ever is on the board needs to cover your backfield to prevent drop-pods and the like.... that is if you plan on staying there.

Your fusion commanders should have a marker drone with them. You only need 1 to hit to have all the fusion hits versus the chance of missing with some. I am not sure as to why you just don't have more pathfinders instead of marker drones. Look at the grav-inhibitor drone for the pathfinders in cover. The additional negative to a charge roll will help more than you think. I'm also wondering why rail-rifles when you have that damage level covered in spades. Going 3 i-r vs 2 r-r may be better in the long run and also free up some points; you could also do 1 r-r and 2 i-r for the same cost.

If the xv9's are deep striking why not bring the extra drones you have a 4 man squad of and put it with them? Each xv9 can take up to 4 drones as war gear. So a mix of gun drones and marker drones there will help the effectiveness as well. Even a shield drone or 2 if they target the drones straight up. Even the trade off for more crisis suits with CIB and ATS or fusion and Shield might work out better (forget the stats on the fusion cascade).

These are all thoughts so take them as you will. What I look for in lists is role and function and what it wants to do. So a drop in to deliver death listl looks differently than my light it up with markers and all the S5 (poke to death)

That is really great advise. Thanks a lot.

I do believe the xv9 says a unit can only take 4 drones, which is why I stopped at 4. I see exactly what you are saying about the marker drones with the commander. I just keep seeing list with the shield drone set up more which is why I went that route.

I haven't tried the gravity inhibitors yet but I will test it now.

Back to your statement about drop in death or poke armies, would you even field strike teams then if you were going for a drop in death team? If not I was kinda leaning towards all pathfinders infinity. My only concern is not being able to capture objectives over troops (boots on the ground).

Again thanks a lot for helping this new player here @ishotfirst.

The strike teams have been consistently not worth it for me this edition. In 7th you could see strike teams for miles.. The use of pathfinders have been the norm with the new edition and after a handful of games I don't see why large squads of strike teams are worth it. Especially with the new moral rules and needing to dump extra points on an ethereal to babysit them. IF you can; a very strong boots on the ground move is to have 10 gun drones (2 teams of 5 is how I run them) and a fireblade in a Devilfish. Each gundrone is a burst cannon with a fireblade at half-range it's 2 burst cannons per gun drone. The fire blade shoots his marker-light and now you reroll 1's. The devilish is the armor to survive the opening shots or getting you across the field the fireblade won't die to snipers because of drone sacrifice.

There is the stealth suit, shadowsun, and gun drone dakka ball that exists as well. I have had some fun with that in less comptive games.

Some people have been successful with the Kroot option. . . I have not. They just tend to be mowed down in the 1st turn for me. You will probably end up losing the rest to morale loss unless the ethereal is there to babysit. But if you need bubble wrap for something 10 Kroot the the cheapest option an limit kill points.

Pathfinders are great so far this edition compared to others but don't go hog wild on buying a bunch until our actual codex hits. This way you can see what new things exist with sept options. Something may catch your eye then you'd be stuck with a lot of unused models. Case and point my pile of gun drones are finally being used again for something other than c-c bubble-wrap. Same with my Kroot... but they may be going back into the box. My pathfinders have become my new backfield holding units taking the place of my strike teams but can also pack a punch with r-r and i-r.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks

Would drone controller plus 1 to the roll stack? for example my crisis suits has 2 guys in it with drone controller, do the giv plus 2 to the roll to a marker or gun drone?

 Ishotfirst wrote:

The strike teams have been consistently not worth it for me this edition. In 7th you could see strike teams for miles.. The use of pathfinders have been the norm with the new edition and after a handful of games I don't see why large squads of strike teams are worth it. Especially with the new moral rules and needing to dump extra points on an ethereal to babysit them. IF you can; a very strong boots on the ground move is to have 10 gun drones (2 teams of 5 is how I run them) and a fireblade in a Devilfish. Each gundrone is a burst cannon with a fireblade at half-range it's 2 burst cannons per gun drone. The fire blade shoots his marker-light and now you reroll 1's. The devilish is the armor to survive the opening shots or getting you across the field the fireblade won't die to snipers because of drone sacrifice.

There is the stealth suit, shadowsun, and gun drone dakka ball that exists as well. I have had some fun with that in less comptive games.

Some people have been successful with the Kroot option. . . I have not. They just tend to be mowed down in the 1st turn for me. You will probably end up losing the rest to morale loss unless the ethereal is there to babysit. But if you need bubble wrap for something 10 Kroot the the cheapest option an limit kill points.

Pathfinders are great so far this edition compared to others but don't go hog wild on buying a bunch until our actual codex hits. This way you can see what new things exist with sept options. Something may catch your eye then you'd be stuck with a lot of unused models. Case and point my pile of gun drones are finally being used again for something other than c-c bubble-wrap. Same with my Kroot... but they may be going back into the box. My pathfinders have become my new backfield holding units taking the place of my strike teams but can also pack a punch with r-r and i-r.

Strike Teams are like other units in the Tau Empire: they reach their optimal performance in context, not alone. Hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1 at STR 5 is very excellent, and at close range with three shots each doing that? Good times.

I submit to you that the Ethereal does more than babysit. It gives the Firewarriors a free markerlight if they DONT want to help nuke a target. And if you take Aun'Va, they are re-rolling morale on a 9, so even when they lose SIX Fire Warriors, the worst you can lose is 2 to morale, and that's assuming you even DO with the re-roll of morale he gives. Aun'Va is my fav.

The Kroot are to protect you with their Vanguard move. Taking a whole bunch may be a pointless exercize but in 50% of your games, you are GOING to need them to project a halo outward.

Pathfinders are good. I agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

trinhm03 wrote:
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks

Would drone controller plus 1 to the roll stack? for example my crisis suits has 2 guys in it with drone controller, do the giv plus 2 to the roll to a marker or gun drone?

No. Ten Drone controllers would still only be +1. BUUUUUUUT...Firesight Marksmen and Drone Controller makes Sniper Drones hit on 3's (re-rolling 1's when markerlit or when near Aun'Va) and that does NOT suck

trinhm03 wrote:
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks

Would drone controller plus 1 to the roll stack? for example my crisis suits has 2 guys in it with drone controller, do the giv plus 2 to the roll to a marker or gun drone?

The drone controller is a flat +1 to the BS. So they go from 5 to 4. The re rolling of 1's is a different ability so it does stack in. So if a marker light was on a target and the drones shot at it with a buff from a drone controller they would hit on 4+ and re roll 1's. The re rolls are also resolved at a 4+ to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Ishotfirst wrote:

The strike teams have been consistently not worth it for me this edition. In 7th you could see strike teams for miles.. The use of pathfinders have been the norm with the new edition and after a handful of games I don't see why large squads of strike teams are worth it. Especially with the new moral rules and needing to dump extra points on an ethereal to babysit them. IF you can; a very strong boots on the ground move is to have 10 gun drones (2 teams of 5 is how I run them) and a fireblade in a Devilfish. Each gundrone is a burst cannon with a fireblade at half-range it's 2 burst cannons per gun drone. The fire blade shoots his marker-light and now you reroll 1's. The devilish is the armor to survive the opening shots or getting you across the field the fireblade won't die to snipers because of drone sacrifice.

There is the stealth suit, shadowsun, and gun drone dakka ball that exists as well. I have had some fun with that in less comptive games.

Some people have been successful with the Kroot option. . . I have not. They just tend to be mowed down in the 1st turn for me. You will probably end up losing the rest to morale loss unless the ethereal is there to babysit. But if you need bubble wrap for something 10 Kroot the the cheapest option an limit kill points.

Pathfinders are great so far this edition compared to others but don't go hog wild on buying a bunch until our actual codex hits. This way you can see what new things exist with sept options. Something may catch your eye then you'd be stuck with a lot of unused models. Case and point my pile of gun drones are finally being used again for something other than c-c bubble-wrap. Same with my Kroot... but they may be going back into the box. My pathfinders have become my new backfield holding units taking the place of my strike teams but can also pack a punch with r-r and i-r.

Strike Teams are like other units in the Tau Empire: they reach their optimal performance in context, not alone. Hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1 at STR 5 is very excellent, and at close range with three shots each doing that? Good times.

I submit to you that the Ethereal does more than babysit. It gives the Firewarriors a free markerlight if they DONT want to help nuke a target. And if you take Aun'Va, they are re-rolling morale on a 9, so even when they lose SIX Fire Warriors, the worst you can lose is 2 to morale, and that's assuming you even DO with the re-roll of morale he gives. Aun'Va is my fav.

The Kroot are to protect you with their Vanguard move. Taking a whole bunch may be a pointless exercize but in 50% of your games, you are GOING to need them to project a halo outward.

Pathfinders are good. I agree.

Ok point taken on the etherial not a babysitter . . ish. But at this point I will have to agree to disagree on the fire-line of strike teams as a useful option especially when it comes to competitive play.

Since some users are posting lists, I thought I'd throw a list down myself. It's loosely based on Jancoran's that he showed a little while ago, but consists only of models that I currently own. It's not as optimized as that one, but I'm thinking it might be okay-ish. Here it is:
Detachment 1: Brigade Detachment
HQ:
Ethereal: Hover Drone
Cadre Fireblade
Longstrike: Railgun, 2x Smart Missile System
Troops:
10 Kroot Carnivores
5 FW Strikers
5 FW Strikers
5 FW Strikers
5 FW Strikers
5 FW Breachers
Elites:
Firesight Marksman
3 Stealth Suits: 1x Fusion, 2x Burst Cannon, ML + Target Lock on Shas'vre, Target Locks on others
Ghostkeel Battlesuit: Fusion Collider, 2x Fusion Blaster, Target Lock, Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
10 Pathfinders: 3x Rail Rifle
4 Marker Drones
4 Marker Drones
Heavy Support:
TX7 Hammerhead: Railgun, 2x Burst Cannon
XV88 Broadside: Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x SMS, Drone Controller
3 Sniper Drones
Detachment 2: Super-heavy Auxiliary
Stormsurge: Pulse Blastcannon, 2x Burst Cannon, ATS, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker
Total 1999 points
I don't know if I have enough cheap chaff to bubble wrap with. Not to mention enough markerlights. I think I do have enough heavy firepower to make mechanized lists sweat a little, though, and 12 Command Points will help mitigate unlucky die rolls (like 1's for railgun damage). I have another list like this that drops the Stormsurge in favor of some Crisis suits and a Commander, plus more of various types of drones. I'm not convinced that it's better, though. Thoughts?

edit: Oh, and about the Breachers: they are there because I don't have more Strikers.