Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition

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**Cephalobeard**

Trancefate wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
Daemons are in a very weird place, where there are a small handful of units, (Princes, Exalted Flamers, BRIMSTONE** Horrors, Changeling) that are good, and everything else is absolutely hot, steaming Garbage.

Screamers, Flamers (these are okay, at best), Chariots, Lords of Change, Kairos, All Khorne Daemons, almost all Slaanesh daemons, it's just really, really bad. They have very little impact, then either not enough movement or synergy (why do TZEENTCH HERALDS give a STR bonus?) to themselves, otherwise.

Does everyone feel that way about Burning Chariots? I've been using 1-3 (I am VERY new I must admit) and they always seem to get quite a bit of work done just tying things up infront of daemon princes. Is there a unit I could be doing this better with or a better way to get my other stuff in without being sploded? It does seem like their ballistic skill is a little low to make reliable use of the blue flame unless you are placed defensively.

I used 3 in the beginning of 8th. Then I got a better taste of how characters work, and just replaced them with Exalted Flamers.

**gesis**

Discodoggy wrote:
I'm leaning heavily towards making a Slaaneshi CSM/demon force.

One model that I really like is the Fiend Of Slaanesh. I like the look of the model. Problem is, they seem sort of bad. And expensive. I've been trying to research tactics for them and can't find much for 8ed, which makes me think they are not used often. Basically, there's an ongoing conversation in my head like this:

child me: "I really want those cool models."
adult me: "dude, no they're not that good"
child me: "but they're going to look really good in the green and pink Slaanesh theme"
adult me: "they're 46 points for S3 T4"
child me: "but it'll be fun!"
adult me: "they're 30 bucks for 46 points! a large unit will cost more than a hundred bucks!"
child me: "they have bug eyes, scorpion tails and claws. I want them! now!"

So I came to the demon tactica thread hoping to gain some insight on how to actually play these models. Does anyone use them effectively? If so, how? Help child me win the argument.

I have like 30 fiends left over from playing Chaos Daemons in 5th edition... every new codex, I hope they are better... and every codex I die a little inside.

They're horsefaced boob monsters with scorpion tales and "robster craws". What's not to love?

**lindsay40k**

I'm refurbing my old Daemons for Allies and Summoning with my Word Bearers. I'm working on my BT and got a LoC to fix up as well, any recommendations on their use?

So far I'm finding Fiends very interesting, that 'you can't fall back' gimmick won my last game by keeping a Knight locked in combat with a CSM Daemon Prince. A squadron of them, some Seekers, a Herald and Steed Sorcerer are working well.

Nurglings are amazing. Top quality pest unit.

**Sersi**

gesis wrote:
Discodoggy wrote:
I'm leaning heavily towards making a Slaaneshi CSM/demon force.

One model that I really like is the Fiend Of Slaanesh. I like the look of the model. Problem is, they seem sort of bad. And expensive. I've been trying to research tactics for them and can't find much for 8ed, which makes me think they are not used often. Basically, there's an ongoing conversation in my head like this:

child me: "I really want those cool models."
adult me: "dude, no they're not that good"
child me: "but they're going to look really good in the green and pink Slaanesh theme"
adult me: "they're 46 points for S3 T4"
child me: "but it'll be fun!"
adult me: "they're 30 bucks for 46 points! a large unit will cost more than a hundred bucks!"
child me: "they have bug eyes, scorpion tails and claws. I want them! now!"

So I came to the demon tactica thread hoping to gain some insight on how to actually play these models. Does anyone use them effectively? If so, how? Help child me win the argument.

I have like 30 fiends left over from playing Chaos Daemons in 5th edition... every new codex, I hope they are better... and every codex I die a little inside.

They're horsefaced boob monsters with scorpion tales and "robster craws". What's not to love?

\

Preach... I have 18 from when they were murder machines in the 5th. Those were the days. Take 3 units of Fiends, 2 KOS, 3 Daemon Princes; all with Fleet and Hit & Run. Plus 2 minimum squads of Daemonettes. Glorious! In the 6-7th they were kinda pointless, but all the elites were bad then. I don't think they're terrible this edition, though. Having 4 attacks each at S4/AP-1/D2 is pretty good. They got a characterful bonus tail attack, and can prevent falling back. We can even get them back up to S5 again with a Herald. They do cost to much though; but I expect that'll change when we get our codex.

**rvd1ofakind**

You guys think CD will get something like chapter tactics? I find that hard to believe. I wonder what GW will do with them as they seem more unique that way.
I remember Frankie from FLG hinting something about Chaos United when it came to Daemons.

**Cephalobeard**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
You guys think CD will get something like chapter tactics? I find that hard to believe. I wonder what GW will do with them as they seem more unique that way.
I remember Frankie from FLG hinting something about Chaos United when it came to Daemons.

I think individual Daemon factions should have their own "tactics". So, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Khorne.

Daemons should have the option to be undivided, but give additional benefits to single gods. Chaos gods HATE eachother, they won't be thrilled to work together.

**lindsay40k**

I'd like to see specific things for the four deities, the four pairs of non-rivals (KT, KN, TS, NS), and chaos united. Like Khornate warfare feeding the flames of Change. Khornate bloodshed feeding Nurglitch death. Tzeentchian change bringing Slaanesh closer to perfection. Slaaneshi decadence leading to Nurglitch decay. There could be a stratagem that's unlocked by each of the nine variants of detachment alignment that doesn't have a pair of bickering rivals.

**rvd1ofakind**

But we already get bonuses for going mono-god. The Herald, Greater Daemon and DP auras. Which is why I assume we'll get different bonuses for going chaos undivided.

**Stuxseth**

Well, I don't think chaos indived will have a (big) avantage.
The fact that Furies (who are supposed to be Chaos Undivided incarnate) have to take marks is a big hint.
I just hope we will have some units with a real deepstrike.

**Cephalobeard**

Those benefits are only actually helpful to like, half of them. It's absolutely pointless for Tzeentch. It's safe to assume they're just placeholder rules for now, I think.

**gwarsh41**

I'm hoping auras become useful for daemons. I could see a chapter tactics thing being that the auras get stronger, or do more, as long as there is not a daemon with a different gods name within X inches.

Daemons are such an odd book. They are a whole army made up of 4 little armies.

**rvd1ofakind**

Stuxseth wrote:
Well, I don't think chaos indived will have a (big) avantage.
The fact that Furies (who are supposed to be Chaos Undivided incarnate) have to take marks is a big hint.
I just hope we will have some units with a real deepstrike.

1CP to deepstrike is something that will 99% happen.

**snottlebocket**

Cephalobeard wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
You guys think CD will get something like chapter tactics? I find that hard to believe. I wonder what GW will do with them as they seem more unique that way.
I remember Frankie from FLG hinting something about Chaos United when it came to Daemons.

I think individual Daemon factions should have their own "tactics". So, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Khorne.

Daemons should have the option to be undivided, but give additional benefits to single gods. Chaos gods HATE eachother, they won't be thrilled to work together.

Chaos gods work together all the time. Each time the great game sees one god rise above the others, the rest will band together against him.

Alliances between the gods are very common. Undivided demons however is an impossibility.

**lindsay40k**

Hmm. That’s a thought. It could be a thing that an army made up of three gods’ daemons gets preferred enemy against the other god!

**Stuxseth**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Stuxseth wrote:
Well, I don't think chaos indived will have a (big) avantage.
The fact that Furies (who are supposed to be Chaos Undivided incarnate) have to take marks is a big hint.
I just hope we will have some units with a real deepstrike.

1CP to deepstrike is something that will 99% happen.

I don't like idea to pay for something who should be possible by default on most of daemons units.
maybe 1d3 free deepstrike for each detachement

**JakeSiren**

I have to say, the GUO is boss.

I played a game last night @1k points against a friend. He was fielding Space Marines with a Knight Errant (was expected ahead of time, so not a surprise). It was fairly defensive game (First Blood on turn 6!). The GUO punched above his weight IMO. He caused 18 wounds on the Knight (which some plague drones helped finish off). Being able to self heal, and improve his to-wound chances allowed him to stick around much longer and cause more damage than any other greater daemon would have.

**rvd1ofakind**

Oh yeah, I definitelly think he's the best Greater Daemon. But that's hardly a compliment :p

**labmouse42**

JakeSiren wrote:
I have to say, the GUO is boss.

I played a game last night @1k points against a friend. He was fielding Space Marines with a Knight Errant (was expected ahead of time, so not a surprise). It was fairly defensive game (First Blood on turn 6!). The GUO punched above his weight IMO. He caused 18 wounds on the Knight (which some plague drones helped finish off). Being able to self heal, and improve his to-wound chances allowed him to stick around much longer and cause more damage than any other greater daemon would have.

The named GUO is just so much better, if you have the points it's worth bringing Scaggy.

That said, I've had great luck with my GUO as well.

**Vomikron Noxis**

labmouse42 wrote:
JakeSiren wrote:
I have to say, the GUO is boss.

I played a game last night @1k points against a friend. He was fielding Space Marines with a Knight Errant (was expected ahead of time, so not a surprise). It was fairly defensive game (First Blood on turn 6!). The GUO punched above his weight IMO. He caused 18 wounds on the Knight (which some plague drones helped finish off). Being able to self heal, and improve his to-wound chances allowed him to stick around much longer and cause more damage than any other greater daemon would have.
The named GUO is just so much better, if you have the points it's worth bringing Scaggy.

That said, I've had great luck with my GUO as well.

Are you still running Scabeiathrax with success? What else you running, and any tips?

**buddha**

How are players liking/hating the various slaanesh chariots so far in 8th?

**lindsay40k**

buddha wrote:
How are players liking/hating the various slaanesh chariots so far in 8th?

I like them. I’ve got the little ones on my long-term to-do list, they seem interesting. Hellflayer is a nice alternative to more Flesh Hounds or Seekers in an Outriders. Daemon HS is a bad fit in my maximum Detachments list building style, but the Seeker Chariot is so cheap it’s a nice wild card to add to a Nurgling Battalion. At the very least, they’ll force enemies to position models carefully - and there’s nothing stopping us from making a Crazy Taxi drifting charge to get most of a firing line tagged by the scythes.

Though for one more Power, I’m definitely finishing my long-mothballed ESC first. The standard Seeker Chariot is going to be a Herald, who goes from being a fragile Possessed buffer and precision Smiter to a pretty capable charge leader. Herald on ESC is a no go due to the Wounds.

In games with limits on the number of Detachments, both types of Seeker Chariot would be even more tempting.

**ZergSmasher**

I would think that either variety of Seeker Chariot or the Hellflayer would just get picked off before they get close due to being fairly fragile. The regular one with a Herald at least benefits from being a character, so could make a pretty nasty surprise for an unwary opponent when it charges out from behind a screening unit. Daemons just need a codex to fix a lot of their issues and perhaps make a lot of these units playable again. The various chariots are really cool models and deserve some good rules.

As mentioned earlier, a Herald on Seeker Chariot could ride along with a unit of Slaanesh Possessed, who could be buffed by a Slaanesh Sorcerer with the Delightful Agonies power for the 5+ FnP. Of course a Herald on Steed would be cheaper, and even a footslogging one could keep up with Possessed easily enough, although not if they are in a Rhino (which they should be).

**rvd1ofakind**

No Brimstones, Magnus, Mortarion, Malefic Lords in the top Chaos list in SoCal Open. :thinking:

**Arachnofiend**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
No Brimstones, Magnus, Mortarion, Malefic Lords in the top Chaos list in SoCal Open. :thinking:

Interesting. Where do you get information on these lists?

**ZergSmasher**

I just recently heard that that top Chaos player had an illegal list and was disqualified. Not sure if it's true or not. Something about his Renegade Knight costing like 30 points less than it should have.

**rvd1ofakind**

All lists are on the Best Coast Pairings app.

And yes, It's true that the top Chaos player had an illegal list. Because spending 2 of your minutes to check the list on BattleScribe is too hard

However, I'm talking about the top Chaos player AFTER the DQ.

His list was Obliterator spam

**Lord Commissar**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
All lists are on the Best Coast Pairings app.

And yes, It's true that the top Chaos player had an illegal list. Because spending 2 of your minutes to check the list on BattleScribe is too hard However, I'm talking about the top Chaos player AFTER the DQ.

His list was Obliterator spam

How was his list illegal? If it is I find that HILARIOUS because the NEXT best chaos player ALSO has an illegal list. You can only take 2 snipers in marauder squads XD.

Meaning if that oblit list is illegal, top 3 chaos players all had illegal lists.

**rvd1ofakind**

Lord Commissar wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
All lists are on the Best Coast Pairings app.

And yes, It's true that the top Chaos player had an illegal list. Because spending 2 of your minutes to check the list on BattleScribe is too hard However, I'm talking about the top Chaos player AFTER the DQ.

His list was Obliterator spam

How was his list illegal? If it is I find that HILARIOUS because the NEXT best chaos player ALSO has an illegal list. You can only take 2 snipers in marauder squads XD.

Meaning if that oblit list is illegal, top 3 chaos players all had illegal lists.

Are you.... fn. kidding me. What was the 3rd illegal list?

**Lord Commissar**

The next best chaos player after that oblit spam list used renegade mauraders and had 3 snipers per squad, whilst only 2 are allowed.

**rvd1ofakind**

I meant Ryan Mead's list was illegal. I guess so was James Carmona's due to snipers. Was David Johansen's list illegal too?