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I dont believe so, I thought thats what you said with "The top Chaos player AFTER the DQ"

I meant the top non-DQd chaos player had almost none of the "problematic" units. That's it.

Thanks for the info about the illegal list though!

Could you post the list? My phone is apparently not compatible with the bcp player so I can't look at it myself...

Alpha legion

Spearhead
Chaos Lord (blade of hydra, tzeentch) 93pts
15 Berzerkers(icon of wrath, 15 chain axes) 265pts
3x 3 obliterators(Tzeentch) 3x195pts
2x 3 obliterators(Slaanesh) 2x195pts

Battalion
Changeling
Herald of Nurgle
3x 3 Nurglings 3x54pts

Battalion
Sorcerer (force staff, tzeentch) 90pts
Exalted Champion (chain axe, khorne) 70pts
20 cultists (Slaanesh) 80pts
2x 10 cultists (Slaanesh) 2x40pts

almost 1000 pts of obliterators. Turns out, they're preeeeeeetty good...

Thanks. Oblits are indeed fantastic, one of the best units in the CSM dex for sure. Its great to see some variety in what Chaos can do at the top end.

I'm not buying them until we get the codex. :p
Don't want to run into a "whoops, can't use them sorry"

I've used 3x3 Obliterators to good success recently. Can't say I'd go much beyond that.

However, I agree with the sentiment of RVD entirely here. I'm not investing in anything until it has a codex from here on out.

Oblits are in a codex......

They're also not a Chaos Daemon unit.

They're a CSM unit, I was simply using them to continue their own conversation about them.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Alpha legion

Spearhead
Chaos Lord (blade of hydra, tzeentch) 93pts
15 Berzerkers(icon of wrath, 15 chain axes) 265pts
3x 3 obliterators(Tzeentch) 3x195pts
2x 3 obliterators(Slaanesh) 2x195pts

Battalion
Changeling
Herald of Nurgle
3x 3 Nurglings 3x54pts

Battalion
Sorcerer (force staff, tzeentch) 90pts
Exalted Champion (chain axe, khorne) 70pts
20 cultists (Slaanesh) 80pts
2x 10 cultists (Slaanesh) 2x40pts

almost 1000 pts of obliterators. Turns out, they're preeeeeeetty good...

I'm a bit confused... why changeling? doesn't seem to affect any of the units here unless I am missing something? Also, herald of nurgle for what? To buff the strength on your nurglings to 3? lol? Sorceror is nice for warptiming, but honestly this doesn't seem like a competitive list at all. If it did well it's because of the individual strength of the obliterator unit, not some genius mathematical pairing this guy has concocted.

The Changeling's aura affects the Tzeentch Oblits.

Trancefate wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Alpha legion

Spearhead
Chaos Lord (blade of hydra, tzeentch) 93pts
15 Berzerkers(icon of wrath, 15 chain axes) 265pts
3x 3 obliterators(Tzeentch) 3x195pts
2x 3 obliterators(Slaanesh) 2x195pts

Battalion
Changeling
Herald of Nurgle
3x 3 Nurglings 3x54pts

Battalion
Sorcerer (force staff, tzeentch) 90pts
Exalted Champion (chain axe, khorne) 70pts
20 cultists (Slaanesh) 80pts
2x 10 cultists (Slaanesh) 2x40pts

almost 1000 pts of obliterators. Turns out, they're preeeeeeetty good...

I'm a bit confused... why changeling? doesn't seem to affect any of the units here unless I am missing something? Also, herald of nurgle for what? To buff the strength on your nurglings to 3? lol? Sorceror is nice for warptiming, but honestly this doesn't seem like a competitive list at all. If it did well it's because of the individual strength of the obliterator unit, not some genius mathematical pairing this guy has concocted.

Changeling affects the Tzeentch Oblits and the herald of nurgle is cheaper than a Tzeentch herald for a cheaper smiter. It's just bonus that he buffs the nurglings if that ever came up. The part about this list that really confuses me is why Slaanesh Cultists/Oblits? Is there a strategim that is usable in any legion that only works on Slaanesh that I'm missing? Probably a double shooting power but not sure myself (I'm a Thousand Sons player so haven't bothered buying the new Chaos book).

Azoqu wrote:

Trancefate wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Alpha legion

Spearhead
Chaos Lord (blade of hydra, tzeentch) 93pts
15 Berzerkers(icon of wrath, 15 chain axes) 265pts
3x 3 obliterators(Tzeentch) 3x195pts
2x 3 obliterators(Slaanesh) 2x195pts

Battalion
Changeling
Herald of Nurgle
3x 3 Nurglings 3x54pts

Battalion
Sorcerer (force staff, tzeentch) 90pts
Exalted Champion (chain axe, khorne) 70pts
20 cultists (Slaanesh) 80pts
2x 10 cultists (Slaanesh) 2x40pts

almost 1000 pts of obliterators. Turns out, they're preeeeeeetty good...

I'm a bit confused... why changeling? doesn't seem to affect any of the units here unless I am missing something? Also, herald of nurgle for what? To buff the strength on your nurglings to 3? lol? Sorceror is nice for warptiming, but honestly this doesn't seem like a competitive list at all. If it did well it's because of the individual strength of the obliterator unit, not some genius mathematical pairing this guy has concocted.

Changeling affects the Tzeentch Oblits and the herald of nurgle is cheaper than a Tzeentch herald for a cheaper smiter. It's just bonus that he buffs the nurglings if that ever came up. The part about this list that really confuses me is why Slaanesh Cultists/Oblits? Is there a strategim that is usable in any legion that only works on Slaanesh that I'm missing? Probably a double shooting power but not sure myself (I'm a Thousand Sons player so haven't bothered buying the new Chaos book).

Since the spearhead detachment is a full CSM detachment... he can use the double-shooting strategem.

That list is really knarly and a nice TAC.

Are the chaos space marines daemon princes any different? I'm curious, they seem identical just with better pyschics and they reroll both marines and daemons and can have a relic... Is it a different model? Could I just run the 5 I have as chaos marines princes instead of normal princes? (I currently run tzeentch soup w/ a lot of princes)

The CSM princes don't get the daemon defensive abilities (ie ephemeral form).

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The CSM princes don't get the daemon defensive abilities (ie ephemeral form).

AHAH! Thank you, knew I was missing something. Guess it wouldn't matter for me anyway since weaver is an autocast for Magnus.

Trancefate wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The CSM princes don't get the daemon defensive abilities (ie ephemeral form).

AHAH! Thank you, knew I was missing something. Guess it wouldn't matter for me anyway since weaver is an autocast for Magnus.

They also have a severe downside in theit statline.

At the moment, a CSM DP has 8 wounds and a Daemon DP has 10. On paper this means better survivability. In practice, this makes it open season.

At 9 or less wounds, a Character can hide behind a screen of virtually any other unit. But since the Daemon DP is at 10, it just falls into the mark where the opponent can gleefully shred it without care.

No. There was a FAQ. They're all 8.

I see Brimstone Horrors all tower the place as cheap T3 4++ screening units. Is anyone actually using Pink Horrors? Split is useless to me, as I’ve yet to play a Points game, and I’m not spending 5 reinforcement power on two blueys. But even in points games, it looks awful. For every 80pts of pinkies, you need to set aside 130 Reinforcement Points for blueys and brimmies. So, as long as your opponent just ignores the pinkies, you’re playing with a 130pts handicap. If you say h*ck it and use the points to summon some Bloodcrushers or a Chariot, your opponent knows your pinkies aren’t going to double up and can just gun them down. If Summoning were not a weak gimmick, then it might be more useful, but this is just sad.

Pinks are used by people who can't afford Brims, and they begrudgingly try to convince themselves split is not bad.

It's bad. No one else uses them.

Correction: 80pts of Pink Horrors’ kids and grandkids cost 160pts.

That’s just ridiculous for a secondary cost to pay for an ability that might not even be used.

 lindsay40k wrote:
I see Brimstone Horrors all tower the place as cheap T3 4++ screening units. Is anyone actually using Pink Horrors? Split is useless to me, as I’ve yet to play a Points game, and I’m not spending 5 reinforcement power on two blueys. But even in points games, it looks awful. For every 80pts of pinkies, you need to set aside 130 Reinforcement Points for blueys and brimmies. So, as long as your opponent just ignores the pinkies, you’re playing with a 130pts handicap. If you say h*ck it and use the points to summon some Bloodcrushers or a Chariot, your opponent knows your pinkies aren’t going to double up and can just gun them down. If Summoning were not a weak gimmick, then it might be more useful, but this is just sad.

Brimstones are the only horrors. Pinks are "good" if you want some cheap assault fire, in practice they are nigh useless. Blues do the same thing as brimstones except they cost 2 (3 before the faq) more points and have 1 less attack... what the feth was GW smoking?

In a powerscore game pinks are fine since you don't pay for the splits, in a POINTS game, I just bring 30 brimstones to protect my core, and squads of nurglings for holding points.

Well, even though I find poxwolkers+brimstones to be a better combo overall, still I have seen a sucessful list with pink horrors on the tournaments with the restricted number of same units.

In regular daemonic lists you won't have options for shooting.
Different heralds and DPs hid in the swarm of pink horrors, and you either shoot at pinks which split or just do nothing for the first turns.

What do you think of Be'lakor?
Some people find him OP, but for me he seems a bit weird...

 Stuxseth wrote:
What do you think of Be'lakor?
Some people find him OP, but for me he seems a bit weird...

In a Daemon or mostly-Daemon list, he's basically slightly more versatile Daemon Prince, with Psychic Powers that are more awkward to use. Not all that overpowered here.

But it's when he's in an army with a heavier complement of Chaos Space Marines that he shines. There he can actually use his psychic powers, and grant rerolls of 1 to units that really benefit from it, like Obliterators, Warp Talons, and Daemon Engines. There's even more synergy with the Daemon Primarchs.

Literally no one worth talking about finds him "OP"
I haven't seen him in any recent major tournament

My instinct tells me Be'lakor is too expensive for what he does, but I love the model and I love his rules. He really can beef up a CSM list if he's allied in, and he can fit into a Supreme Command (with 2 Malefic Lords) relatively inexpensively. This might be a good option if you were going to run Mortarion or Magnus anyway in the LoW slot of a Supreme Command.

I mainly use Be'Lakor for Death Hex in daemonic lists.
With access to very rare AP-5 and Death Hex he is very good anti-elite hunter with extra mortal wounds from his second cast.

On recent tournament he single handedly killed DP and two maulerfiends.

 Stuxseth wrote:
What do you think of Be'lakor?
Some people find him OP, but for me he seems a bit weird...

I can't imagine a world where this sentiment is correct.

He's a Daemon unit who can't cast any of his spells on Daemons. That's about all you need to know. Pack it up, move on to the next model.

He’s a Daemon unit with full re-rolls on his 4++. Combined with ability to hid as a CHARACTER, that’s nearly Greater Daemon endurance.

He’s got a 6” reroll 1’s to hit bubble for all DAEMON units. That’s distinctive.

He’s got six S7 AP5 D3 attack’s that hit on a 2+. That’s Bloodthirster-level output, with no deterioration.

He might only have access to buff spells that affect HA, but he also has access to a debuff spell that takes down invulnerable saves and two damage spells that pick their target.

That’s not terrible at all.