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2017/06/08 17:56:21
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
8 HDs
vs
6 HDs + D.L
vs
3 DDAs vs
2 DDAs + HGC Stalker
They're all close to the same cost.
I honestly can't tell what setup would be the scariest to play against.
If we were going to mix them (assuming that would be the best option for a TAC build), what would be the best combo of units? (say for around 500-600 points)
I like the idea of;
1 DDA + 2 groups of 3 HDs or 2 DDA + 1 3HDs.
There both expensive at over 630-660pts but I feel like its a lot of fire-power for the points.
8 HDs
vs
6 HDs + D.L
vs
3 DDAs vs
2 DDAs + HGC Stalker
They're all close to the same cost.
I honestly can't tell what setup would be the scariest to play against.
If we were going to mix them (assuming that would be the best option for a TAC build), what would be the best combo of units? (say for around 500-600 points)
I like the idea of;
1 DDA + 2 groups of 3 HDs or 2 DDA + 1 3HDs.
There both expensive at over 630-660pts but I feel like its a lot of fire-power for the points.
I wanna run DDA, they will last longer. Remember, the gun has the whole board range, so it will be camped back shooting all game, not moving. It can be screened if need be, protected from charge. I think 2xDDA and a stalker is better than 3x DDA, just as it gives more tactical flexibility because the stalkers buff can be applied to any unit, allowing the smaller guns more damage.
12,000
2017/06/08 18:38:24
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
8 HDs
vs
6 HDs + D.L
vs
3 DDAs vs
2 DDAs + HGC Stalker
They're all close to the same cost.
I honestly can't tell what setup would be the scariest to play against.
If we were going to mix them (assuming that would be the best option for a TAC build), what would be the best combo of units? (say for around 500-600 points)
I like the idea of;
1 DDA + 2 groups of 3 HDs or 2 DDA + 1 3HDs.
There both expensive at over 630-660pts but I feel like its a lot of fire-power for the points.
I'd go with 1 DDA + 2x3 HD
The reasoning being that you can flank with the HD more easily.
That way you can keep up a steady rate of AT fire even if you're forced to move the DDA to acquire new heavy targets.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/08 18:48:41
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
skoffs wrote: Hmm, I wonder how equivalent points would fare without their force multipliers?
8 HDs = 600 (no rerolling 1s to wound)
3 DDAs = 606 (no rerolling 1s to hit)
(a little over a quarter of your points is not a ridiculous number to spend on the heavy slot, right?)
The DDA still outperform the HDs in term of wounds and potential damage. Its also overkill
Alright, quick notes about the HD vs DArk conversation since I have meetings and can't totally catch up:
-Each Ark averages 2 shots per big gun since they're D3. Comparing max damage to max damage is not average
-Moving makes the big gun trash. Even with the stalker to reroll 1s, you're a 200 point model that's getting a couple shots on 4s, and that's bad.
-The damage is only "higher" than equivalent points of HDs if you have the Flayers in range
The game is objective based. You can reasonably expect there to be one in your DZ, but if you're sitting back, your Flayers won't be in range for a good portion of the game I'd wager. If you move up, the Destroyers are better since their guns don't suck on the move. They also are better in combat. And if you get charged and want to fall back and shoot, the DArk's gun sucks again.
On a "firing range", the DArks are probably better. In practicality, it's a lot closer.
The main isn't trash on the move though. Its still wounding most vehicles on a 3+. What does get affected is the pen (-2, reduces most vehicle saves to 5+), damage (D3, not terrible) and accuracy (yeah, 4+ isn't great)
Its not amazing, but its not terrible either.
A 200 point gun (because let's face it, the big gun is the only one we really care about) that averages 2 shots that hit on 4s isn't good. At all. When it sits still it's great, but hitting on 4s is bad. Look at the Monolith - the Particle Whip is nearly the same (slightly weaker but double the max shots, triple the average), and it hits on 4s. Everyone agrees it's not worth taking.
It hits on 3s if it is not moving and with Q shield the stuff it wants to pop has a hard time hitting back. The HDestroyers are just +3 and melt to any consentrated fire. Max squads of HDestroyers might give you a chance to rez but against a competent opponent I would not count on it.
2017/06/08 18:57:36
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
yea i cant see comparable points worth of HD's survive anywhere near as long as DDA's. They might put out more hurt in one volley, but over a game, take a lot more concentrated fire to kill the arks.
12,000
2017/06/08 19:00:10
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Dew wrote: And at 72" they can hit anything anytime. Never have to worry about surving long enough to get into rang to shoot back.
Damn I might have to get a DDArk now... I hate painting those things lol
I mean, yeah, unless you play with any sort of LOS blocking terrain, which the Heavies can move to see around and the DArk can't. Or if they charge the DArk. Or if the mission needs you to move out of the back of your deployment zone.
Again, DArk very much wins in a shooting gallery. But that's not winning the game most of the time.
2017/06/08 19:16:56
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Dew wrote: And at 72" they can hit anything anytime. Never have to worry about surving long enough to get into rang to shoot back.
Damn I might have to get a DDArk now... I hate painting those things lol
I mean, yeah, unless you play with any sort of LOS blocking terrain, which the Heavies can move to see around and the DArk can't. Or if they charge the DArk. Or if the mission needs you to move out of the back of your deployment zone.
Again, DArk very much wins in a shooting gallery. But that's not winning the game most of the time.
Remember the DArk got a massive buff with no facing. As long a just a bit of the Ark sticks out fire at will!
2017/06/08 19:20:39
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
I wanna run DDA, they will last longer. Remember, the gun has the whole board range, so it will be camped back shooting all game, not moving. It can be screened if need be, protected from charge. I think 2xDDA and a stalker is better than 3x DDA, just as it gives more tactical flexibility because the stalkers buff can be applied to any unit, allowing the smaller guns more damage.
True it will last longer but HD still get RP and come back full wounds.
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
DDA + 3-6 scarabs and a Sypder could be a good combo as the DDA will be not be hit-able and the Sypder will make sure my wall of scarabs stay up. Also, the Sypder can heal D3 wounds to the DDA if equipped with FC if snipped.
CthululsSpy
I was thinking that. Maybe 3×2 HD would be good as more movement for flanking and more targets for my opponent to sink shots into.
-off topic-
If we Deepstrike a DDA does that count as moving? So say I used the Deceiver to DS a DDA from my side of the table to my opponents. Do we attack at full power or low power? It technically isn't moving as it is being teleported but I am unsure to what happens
Any Ideas?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/08 19:33:05
Dew wrote: And at 72" they can hit anything anytime. Never have to worry about surving long enough to get into rang to shoot back.
Damn I might have to get a DDArk now... I hate painting those things lol
I mean, yeah, unless you play with any sort of LOS blocking terrain, which the Heavies can move to see around and the DArk can't. Or if they charge the DArk. Or if the mission needs you to move out of the back of your deployment zone.
Again, DArk very much wins in a shooting gallery. But that's not winning the game most of the time.
If they charge the D Ark it can disengage and drown them in flayer fire and hit them with the main cannon. The best thing about necron vehicles is that they can all fly. Well, except for the stalker anyway
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/08 19:26:53
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
Why would the scarabs be shot 1st due to being closer?
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2017/06/08 20:22:37
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
Why would the scarabs be shot 1st due to being closer?
Yeah, DDAs aren't characters mate. The shoot at closest thing is a character rule, not a scarab rule.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/08 20:23:39
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
Why would the scarabs be shot 1st due to being closer?
They would not work like that, can't hide a vehicle behind units (this is why the ccb is garbage) but you can screen charges and with good placing stop drops from being in melta range.
2017/06/08 20:24:55
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
Why would the scarabs be shot 1st due to being closer?
Yeah, DDAs aren't characters mate. The shoot at closest thing is a character rule, not a scarab rule.
Forgot about that
I guess having a DDA on its own is the way to go atm.
2017/06/08 20:36:22
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
If i'm gonna run DDA (and i really want to) I would field Scarabs with them and surround the DDA with them so if it gets shot at the scarabs would be shot 1st due to them being closer giving the DDA at least a turn of not being hit or damaged.
Why would the scarabs be shot 1st due to being closer?
Yeah, DDAs aren't characters mate. The shoot at closest thing is a character rule, not a scarab rule.
Forgot about that
I guess having a DDA on its own is the way to go atm.
Scarabs and the like can create larger bubbles where you can't land with 9" away abilities though. And keep fast things from charging you.
2017/06/08 20:53:36
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Have we decided how D3 damage works off of weapons with D3 shots?
For instance, the Doomsday Cannon on the Doomsday Ark. It's Heavy D3, and D3 damage. When do we roll for damage, and do we roll for each wound individually, or one roll for all wounds?
Example: We roll D3, and get 2 shots. We land both shots, and both wound, unsaved. Do we then roll two separate D3 to determine each shot's damage, or a single D3 and the value applies to both shot?
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2017/06/08 21:11:28
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: Have we decided how D3 damage works off of weapons with D3 shots?
For instance, the Doomsday Cannon on the Doomsday Ark. It's Heavy D3, and D3 damage. When do we roll for damage, and do we roll for each wound individually, or one roll for all wounds?
Example: We roll D3, and get 2 shots. We land both shots, and both wound, unsaved. Do we then roll two separate D3 to determine each shot's damage, or a single D3 and the value applies to both shot?
we roll two separate D3 to determine each shot's damage
2017/06/08 21:11:39
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
A 200 point gun (because let's face it, the big gun is the only one we really care about) that averages 2 shots that hit on 4s isn't good. At all. When it sits still it's great, but hitting on 4s is bad. Look at the Monolith - the Particle Whip is nearly the same (slightly weaker but double the max shots, triple the average), and it hits on 4s. Everyone agrees it's not worth taking.
I don't know anyone else who thinks the big gun is the only one worth caring about - 10 AP-1 Bolters are 10 AP-1 Bolters.
One of the major selling points of the D-Ark is you get the flayers also.
2017/06/08 21:17:15
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
A 200 point gun (because let's face it, the big gun is the only one we really care about) that averages 2 shots that hit on 4s isn't good. At all. When it sits still it's great, but hitting on 4s is bad. Look at the Monolith - the Particle Whip is nearly the same (slightly weaker but double the max shots, triple the average), and it hits on 4s. Everyone agrees it's not worth taking.
I don't know anyone else who thinks the big gun is the only one worth caring about - 10 AP-1 Bolters are 10 AP-1 Bolters.
One of the major selling points of the D-Ark is you get the flayers also.
Yep, even if you move you still have the flayer arrays, and those don't suffer a hit penalty. So you can can reliably kill some infantry at least.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/08 21:40:08
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
For anyone that uses the Qaurtermaster app, I have been working on the 8th edition Necron template and just finished it up. I have been working with the main dev throughout the process, and hopefully we'll have it up soon for everyone to use.
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2017/06/08 22:42:50
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: For anyone that uses the Qaurtermaster app, I have been working on the 8th edition Necron template and just finished it up. I have been working with the main dev throughout the process, and hopefully we'll have it up soon for everyone to use.
Nice thanks for the hard work. Makes it easier for us lazy bums.
2017/06/08 23:56:06
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
So, after being unimpressed by our vehicles, and Anni barges in particular, I decided to write a QS heavy list to see what it looks like. Actually seems like it might be ok...
Orikan
20 Warriors
10 Gauss Immortals
10 Tesla Immortals
3x H.Destroyers
T.Stalker
Anni barge
Anni barge
Anni barge
DDA DDA
2000pts, 4CPs
Pretty good anti-tank for a Necron list and a lot of dakka. Still has a decent phalanx to hold the mid field and the Anni barges are pretty fast moving if they need to grab an objective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 00:00:09
2017/06/09 00:00:08
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
All this talk about comparing the Destroyers and DDA as our big guns and anti tank, where do we stand on the Doom Scythe? Looks to be comparable damage, wounds and cost. Added bonus of trying to hit a flyer but no QS...
2017/06/09 00:00:58
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
12,000 
~4100
~1660
7,000 pts
