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Heavy infantry is far from useless. Heavy infantry being underpowered in a game with absolutely masses of different types of units is normal. Something is always a little underpowered.

Posted By Therion- on 04/28/2007 8:22 AM

Useless heavy infantry is near perfect?

Heavy infantry is far from useless. Heavy infantry being underpowered in a game with absolutely masses of different types of units is normal. Something is always a little underpowered.

Good post.  Fantasy-clipping issues = pretty solid.  As a Dwarf player, I've seen arguments that span 3 pages worth debating Heavy Ironbreakers vs Hammers vs regular Dwarfs many times at Bugmans.  In my opinion, if people are debating it to that degree, even if one side statistically comes out on top...hell it's close enough balance for me.

I can only assume you are referencing useless heavy infantry to Chaos Warriors, as 90% of the time the people whom complain about heavy infantry are Chaos players...or HE players...but they complain about everything (Intrigue at the Court does suck).  Actually, I would consider it unbalanced if all I needed to take were Ironbreakers or Chaos Warriors. 

Too bad, as I enjoy the fluff of 40k more...hopefully they Warhammer it and make it solid.

Posted By Therion- on 04/28/2007 8:22 AM

Useless heavy infantry is near perfect?

Heavy infantry is far from useless. Heavy infantry being underpowered in a game with absolutely masses of different types of units is normal. Something is always a little underpowered.

Funny, from reading your postings about 40k units I was lead to believe that you considered anything that was underpowered is useless.

That's because those are two completely separate games. On many occasions in FB you don't even have to roll your attacks in order to break an enemy unit. Your strategy and maneouvres have already won you the fight. That allows you to take units because of their role in your overall strategy and not simply because of their own points effectiveness. For example, I use sacrificial units that die each game so that I can gain a 20-0 victory.

Heavy infantry can be used as a lure or as an anvil and although many people find that strategy hard to get success with it doesn't mean the unit type is useless at all.

As far as Chaos Warriors go that issue has nothing to do with heavy infantry as a unit type. People don't like Chaos Warriors because Chaos Knights have S5 attacks and better armour saves even when they are charged themselves. That makes them in many cases a better anvil than the Warriors while also functioning as a hammer unit. This requires tweaking in Hordes of Chaos and not Warhammer.

Yep. Simply bumping Chaos Knights to Special (ala Empire Inner Circle) would solve 80% of the problem by itself.

Of course, Chaos Dwarf players get even less support than Space Ork players, so that problem exists in both games.

Chaos Dwarfs? Aren't they like...Squats in Fantasy? And the Squats were eaten by the Tyranids!! Everybody knows that.

Greets
Schepp himself

So we're going to see super bugs in the Empire before we see more 40k Orks?

Posted By Therion- on 04/28/2007 10:31 AM
As far as Chaos Warriors go that issue has nothing to do with heavy infantry as a unit type. People don't like Chaos Warriors because Chaos Knights have S5 attacks and better armour saves even when they are charged themselves. That makes them in many cases a better anvil than the Warriors while also functioning as a hammer unit. This requires tweaking in Hordes of Chaos and not Warhammer.

I'm on your side Therion .  I brought up Chaos Warriors as an illustration of why people assume all heavy infantry is worthless (Mostly because they either compare them to Knights as you pointed out or want to run an entire army with them).