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I dont believe for a second there a 1000 chapters around thats million marines atleast! Thats bull, i dont care what GW say to make there fanboys sound better.

Xav wrote:I dont believe for a second there a 1000 chapters around thats million marines atleast! Thats bull, i dont care what GW say to make there fanboys sound better.

Well, that's the correct number. Hey--it's a big galaxy and someone's got to keep the xenos, mutants, witches, heretics, traitors, etc in order (no offence to the Guard or Sisters).

Mean while: everyone come and vote in the Best Current Codex Survivor Game!

I dont care what anyone says, there were twenty legions, 10,000 marines in each and thats a total of 200,000 half of them were lost to chaos, i can understand that the space marine might have incresed a few thousand over then thouasand years, but not 90,000 its bull.

Agreeing with that would be like agreeing that there's 1000 in a chapter, its obvious there not but its what GW says.

Gotta be WAYYY less CSM than that. Their ranks only get replenished when loyal marines fall, and lets face it, that doesn't happen often. On top of that, CSM have been fighting for ten thousand years. Not only against the Imperium but against themselves in the eye of terror. Fluff wise CSM are VERY rare as well. If there were really that many chaos marines the Imperium probably would've been overthrown already.

Xav wrote:Agreeing with that would be like agreeing that there's 1000 in a chapter, its obvious there not but its what GW says.

I honestly do not understand this argument. If GW or BL says something definite pertaining to the 40k universe, it is a fact of that universe until they say something else or unless they say something else at the same time. This is especially true when they say the same bit of information over and over again. For the sake of discussion, forty thousand years should be enough to recruit a million or so humans out of the many trillions that inhabit the Imperium.

firebat wrote:Gotta be WAYYY less CSM than that. Their ranks only get replenished when loyal marines fall, and lets face it, that doesn't happen often.

This seems very likely to me.

Because they cant get out of the eye of terror, and thats the only stable way to bring a big force out, they have to sneak into the imperium, what about the chaos space marine raiders like Huron Blackheart, and its a big imperium, if there were so many space marines then why havnt they launched a raid into the eye of terror and kill all the traitors?

Because it would ruin the game, like if the space marines could fall it would ruin the game so they create too many of them to kill.

Xav wrote:Because it would ruin the game, like if the space marines could fall it would ruin the game so they create too many of them to kill.

+++ALERT! ALERT! BREACH IN FOURTH WALL!+++

Seriously though, that's pretty much the bottom line.

The only reason any one race is ever a threat is because they are cuppled with all the other threats in the Imperium. There is no one Enemy the Imperium couldn't beat sept maybe tyranids but thats maybe. The imperium out mans and out anythings any race. If the imperium through there wieght at crushing CSMs in the Eye of Terror they'd win and overwhelmingly. ITs just the fact of using resources towards that other than elsewhere because that would be such a large undertaking.

CajunMan550 wrote:The only reason any one race is ever a threat is because they are cuppled with all the other threats in the Imperium. There is no one Enemy the Imperium couldn't beat sept maybe tyranids but thats maybe. The imperium out mans and out anythings any race. If the imperium through there wieght at crushing CSMs in the Eye of Terror they'd win and overwhelmingly. ITs just the fact of using resources towards that other than elsewhere because that would be such a large undertaking.

Agree 100%--well maybe 99%. I don't think the Tyranids would survive the full might of the Imperium.

Manchu wrote:

CajunMan550 wrote:The only reason any one race is ever a threat is because they are cuppled with all the other threats in the Imperium. There is no one Enemy the Imperium couldn't beat sept maybe tyranids but thats maybe. The imperium out mans and out anythings any race. If the imperium through there wieght at crushing CSMs in the Eye of Terror they'd win and overwhelmingly. ITs just the fact of using resources towards that other than elsewhere because that would be such a large undertaking.

Agree 100%--well maybe 99%. I don't think the Tyranids would survive the full might of the Imperium.

The nids we see now are just the scouting part, the nids have already devoured a whole galaxy, and this one's next, this is just the scouts when the trynids decided to turn there full attention towards this galaxy it doesnt matter how many times the Ultramarines, drive off billions of nids, ever though in the last BRB it clearly stated they were screwed and i was happy, but then they survived And there not aloud to survive

The Imperium of man shall survive!

Xav wrote:The nids we see now are just the scouting part, the nids have already devoured a whole galaxy, and this one's next, this is just the scouts when the trynids decided to turn there full attention towards this galaxy it doesnt matter how many times the Ultramarines, drive off billions of nids, ever

As they say, o rly?

Try this:

Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, Graham McNeill, Phil Kelly, & Andy Hoare wrote:The menace of the Necron expansion grows with each passing year and will soon reach catastrophic proportions. This could spell the end of Humanity, for the core of the Necron threat nestles like a cancer within the Imperium itself.

The Codices always strive to make their particular subjects the most threatening of all threats. And for all we know, the galaxy that the Tyranids last ate had little to no sentient life much less a force as overwhelmingly powerful as the Imperium.

Still thats alot of nids escially if these one aint the main group, there could be giant battlebarge sized nids out there, sniffing out galaxys.

But the good news is that if there sending scouts then this isnt the only galaxy there investigating, they may take a while to get here

They could also not be big as we all think. Of course there horrible but what if what we have seen is all there is? Sure that's hopefull at best but as Manchu says every race is made to be the biggest threat and super powerful at every chance.

SonofTerra wrote:isnt there supposedly ~ 1000 chapters around

Yes I'm afraid Xav is wrong, there are about 1000 loyal Chapters; about 60% of which are Ultramarines and so can more or less be depended upon to come to the aid of Terra. Most of the chapters would aid Terra, but not all as they all have their own agendas and the loss of Terra would not be a huge blow to the Empire (other than a moral one obviously).
But to take Terra you also have to get past the Adeptus Mechanicus who have massive armies and fleets of their own, they are unlikely to back Chaos this time as chaos offers them nothing they want; they strive for order and mechanical perfection, and mechanical things don't work very well in the warp lol
Also the AM are more organised than the imperium so will be able to call upon re-enforcements more easily.

There were Daemons during the first seige of Terra, although I don't know how many, as Sanguinius defeated a Blood Thirster at the Eternity gate.
Also, how many of the Primarchs would want to leave the warp? As far as I can tell Fulgrim and Mortarion have everything they could ever want in there, and their minions can bring them almost anything else

So the numbers would probably be roughly equal in an ideal world, but uniting the forces of Chaos is more difficult than uniting the twin powers of the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Plus Daemons aren't very reliable outside of the gaming world, especially with Sister of Silence around.

Who are the sisters of silence? I've heard of them once before, but only a vague reference.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Who are the sisters of silence? I've heard of them once before, but only a vague reference.

They're Phsycic Nulls, instead of having psycic powers they nullify others phsycic abilities; sort of like walking psycic hoods

Edit: Just to throw some numbers around; the Progenoid takes 5-10 years to mature, allowing extraction to make new Space Marines. As there are two Progenoids, you can make two marines for each one recruited. Baring any loses (no battle loses as they are still in training after 10 years) the Chapter can therefore double in size every 10 years.
Taking the Ultramarines as an example, lets say there were 70,000 left after the heresy and subsequent unrest; in 10,000 years they could potentially have grown to 140,000,000 marines, so 1,000,000 marines in the entire empire is very conservative and also doesn't take into account the large chapters such as the Black Templars.

Chaos do steal geneseed, but I don't think anyone knows how the warp effects it's growth in new marines.

It could be more than a million as there is good evidence to suggest that a chapter numbers many more marines than the thousand who make up the line and reserve companies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xav wrote:Well i just read that and i think we can re-do how many marines are there.

Looks like there's 1200 per chapter at any given time, so thats about roughly 120,000 space marines in our world today, not including ones lost in warp storms or trapped in the warp.

Lets stick to 10,000 marines per legion, and say about 1,000 loyalist marines in every traitor.

Thats 72,000 chaos marines, if we add the traitor chapters, which is atleast 50 chapters, probaly having about 200 who stay loyal we got about 122,000 chaos marines.

Chaos space marines recruit into there ranks as well, just not as frequently as space marines, i think.

So i think that puts the numbers today at about 90,000 to 97,000 chaos marines, would anyone agree with me?

I always wanted to establish a number for the chaos marines out there.

My 700,000 number is a complete guestimate based on what I think the minimum number of marines would be. Going with a minimum of 1000 chapters and having them all facing at least 30% casualties. At the other end you have 1000 chapters plus, each with 1200 marines giving 1.2 million marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A million is not many anyway, that's less than one marine for every thousand or more planets.

I am so sick of this argument..PLEASE LOCK!!!!

Colonel is you dont like the discussion then dont read it.

I just cant beleive that, million is alot and thats means the space marines banded together could potentially destroy the nids, eldar, necrons, traitor marines.

Its just GW's way of showing The Space Marines, as the best thing in the galaxy, i dont realy believe that, and i didnt think anyone else did.

Its impossibly, mars would never be able to supply the amount of bolter rounds, it would require to fuel million marines, and there are billions of humans, but a very small chance that they are found at the right age and fitness levels to became a space marines, and survive basic training.

Xav wrote:Colonel is you dont like the discussion then dont read it.

I just cant beleive that, million is alot and thats means the space marines banded together could potentially destroy the nids, eldar, necrons, traitor marines.

Its just GW's way of showing The Space Marines, as the best thing in the galaxy, i dont realy believe that, and i didnt think anyone else did.

Its impossibly, mars would never be able to supply the amount of bolter rounds, it would require to fuel million marines, and there are billions of humans, but a very small chance that they are found at the right age and fitness levels to became a space marines, and survive basic training.

You don't believe Space Marines can't do that? They can't do it all at once but yes individualy SMs would crush any one of those force with no trouble at all. And Mars isn't the only place that produces equipment for marines there are forgeworlds all over the Imperium. If there was only the one no marine would have a single bolter round ever....


Also chapters like the Black Templar need to be counted there estimated to be as alarge as 6k marines.

Xav wrote:I just cant beleive that, million is alot and thats means the space marines banded together could potentially destroy the nids, eldar, necrons, traitor marines.
Its impossibly, mars would never be able to supply the amount of bolter rounds, it would require to fuel million marines, and there are billions of humans, but a very small chance that they are found at the right age and fitness levels to became a space marines, and survive basic training.

Marines make most of their own equipment. The Forge Worlds only make the really advanced stuff like Land Raiders and Lascannons, and there are loads of ForgeWorlds.
There are billions of humans on each Hive World and there are hundreds of Hive Worlds; most chapters draw their recruits on a regular basis from a set number of planets so finding recruits is not a problem.

Yes there are a lot of Marines, but there will be massively outnumbered by the Nids, and probably by the Necrons as well. The imperiums main defence against the nids is the Imperial Fleet anyway....

Grim.Badger wrote:As far as I can tell Fulgrim and Mortarion have everything they could ever want in there, and their minions can bring them almost anything else

Everything but vengeance!

Emperors Faithful wrote:Who are the sisters of silence? I've heard of them once before, but only a vague reference.

I think you'd really like them, EF. IIRC, they are in Galaxy in Flames, Flight of the Eisenstein, and have their own short story called "The Voice" in Tales of Heresy.

Grim.Badger wrote:Yes there are a lot of Marines, but there will be massively outnumbered by the Nids, and probably by the Necrons as well. The imperiums main defence against the nids is the Imperial Fleet anyway....

The main defense of the Imperium in every case is either the Fleet (as Badger remarked here) or the "untold billions" of the Imperial Guard. Most Space Marine Chapters are best employed as a surgical strike force (although not every Chapter specializes in this like the Raptors do). Xav, you have to think of Space Marines in the context of a galactic power that boasts the IG as its main air/ground fighting force. A million marines (or even significantly more) is still a tiny, tiny sliver in comparison to who knows how many thousands of regiments. Also, those million Marines are split up into one thousand Chapters which do not all cooperate. They are not a coherent force, barring an invasion of Terra. It's really not that hard to believe.

colonel584 wrote:I am so sick of this argument..PLEASE LOCK!!!!

Um, no?

However, feel free to ignore this thread.

Xav wrote:Colonel is you dont like the discussion then dont read it.

I just cant beleive that, million is alot and thats means the space marines banded together could potentially destroy the nids, eldar, necrons, traitor marines.

Its just GW's way of showing The Space Marines, as the best thing in the galaxy, i dont realy believe that, and i didnt think anyone else did.

Its impossibly, mars would never be able to supply the amount of bolter rounds, it would require to fuel million marines, and there are billions of humans, but a very small chance that they are found at the right age and fitness levels to became a space marines, and survive basic training.

Look at it this way...there are roughly a thousand chapter coming to a total of around one million marines. Some Chapters are larger than this but many Chapters are below standard strength, so it evens itself out.

Now...how many worlds are there in the Imperium? Millions. It would be impossible to Garrison each world with a single Marine, due to the numbers. You might, maybe, be able to do it for every habitable world out there but I doubt it.

Add in the fact that an average Imperial Guard Campaign will cost several million lives and you start getting a real idea of how few Marines a million is. Hence why they never stay long in a warzone. Marines cannot fight wars of attrition. They need the Guard for that. And it's why the loss of a chapter is such a blow to the Imperium.

As for the supplies...Mars wouldn't have to. There are hundred, maybe thousands of Forge Worlds out there, and many Hive Worlds are capable of making basic gear. It wouldn't be a shock to find a large part of the TechMarine's duties were to forge blessed bolter shells. I know in Dark Heresy mention is made that certain elite gun manufacturers are allowed to make at least some of a bolter shell before it's finished by trained Tech Priests.

As for how many Chaos Marines there are, it's impossible to say. It should be noted that at least some of the Legions seem to be determined to build there numbers again. The Iron Warriors made that nasty Daemonculaba to mass produce more Iron Warriors, there was a big feud between three Iron Warrior Warsmiths over Gene-Seed stolen from an Adeptus Mechanicus facility and the Red Corsairs spent three years stealing the Marines Errant Gene-Seed. It may be Chaos infighting, trying to build there own powerbase up, but I suspect between time, attrition, a lack of proper facilities and mutation the Chaos Marines have lost a lot of there Gene-Seed and numbers, and they're doing everything they can to make those numbers back up.

Alpharius wrote:

colonel584 wrote:I am so sick of this argument..PLEASE LOCK!!!!

Um, no?

However, feel free to ignore this thread.

Winner!

Yes, marines are usually sent to the most dangerous warzones or in the last few battles crucial to winning a campaign. Basically the IG are the mop while the SM are the paper towls.

And the Grey Knights are like Bounty, the quicker picker upper.

I can feel the sarcasm but your right manchu. The grey knights are sort of like bounty. They are sent to quickly pick up any Daemon infestation. Exactly as if the grey knights were the towl and the daemons the spill

I've got to master this [/sarcasm] button! I was following along with your metaphor and completely agreeing.