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You had to ruin a gun thread by putting "him" up in here.

Tsk, tsk. I'm ashamed.

Fateweaver wrote:You had to ruin a gun thread by putting "him" up in here.

Tsk, tsk. I'm ashamed.

I bet he doesn't even know which end is which. LOL.

As to the video. So the guy seems overly excited about a new ballistic round for a full auto shotgun. So what? I've seen people literally orgasm on the spot when reading a new 40k codex for the first time. Are they weird for it? (Umm, okay, perhaps in that case they are).

He wanted to hype that gun up. You don't hype up a product by talking about it like you just don't care.

Phryxis wrote:

I feel it's people like him that make me stereotype you guys as I did in my OP.

Ok, now consider this:

I could go find a video of a black dude beating somebody up and robbing him.

If you saw that, would you feel ok saying "hey, black people, are you all basically violent criminals?"

No. That's racist. And American, Canadian and British society busily ingrains its citizens with an almost compulsive, Clockwork Orange sort of contempt for racism.

So just ask yourself, why do you feel ok about generalizing one video of one guy to all gun owners, and in fact, based on your post title, all Americans?

I'd argue that it's because the people who spend their time clubbing "diversity" into all of our skulls aren't actually interested in "diversity" so much as in "giving the appearance of protecting their pet voting blocks."

+1

I had thought to say something along these lines earlier, but couldn't articulate it. Spot on!

DutchKillsRambo wrote:

ComputerGeek01 wrote:You see this is why Alpharius has quickley become my favorite MOD on this site, he keeps things in perspective. How can you not just love such beutiful things as guns.

@ Monster Rain: Squig_herder was refering to the paranoia that seems rampant in all of our justifications about home defence. People with this mind set don't realize that this is justified in our culture and they would rather that we give police MORE power and make them deal with it. They look out their windows or go outside and see the police on the street everyday and it makes them feel safe and that is good enough for them.

I have a question for all of those who see me as the redneck that I surley am. How much do the police in your city get paid per year? I remeber talking to a cop one night, we were chatting about things and somehow we got on the topic of what I do for a living. I was pretty proud to tell him that even in this city basically right out of colledge I make $30,000 a year (which is about what most people twice my age make around here) he smiled and told me how he make $120,000 + fully paid benefits last year and that was only because they cut his overtime, and when I asked he said he didn't do any moonlighting as a security guard or anything like that. Grated he had several good reasons to justify making that much (5 years MP at fort Benning for one) but how many officers do you think a dying city like Buffalo New York can support at that pay rate? This is why we own guns my friends because in the end it's cheaper then paying for more police.

Buffalo is a special case. Being a son to an officer that worked Internal Affairs I can tell you Buffalo is not the norm. It is grossly corrupt. To levels you wouldn't believe. But thats not the norm for most of the US.

My views on Americans and guns is that we have them because we can. Simple as that. Their just tools. Tools that can be easily misused but still tools.
I enjoy shooting guns because its fun, not because I think Ill ever need them. All this crap about home defense is just that, crap. Say you like guns because you like guns. Theres nothing wrong with that. But all this baloney about militas and defending your rights is what gives Americans a bad name.

Oh and without a doubt people get sexually aroused by guns. Just because you don't doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Plus have you seen some of the porn out there?

Has your house ever been broken into?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say if someone breaks into my house while I am here, and they are lucid, I will give them a chance to surrender and be turned over to the cops. If they are raving lunatics on methamphetamines or crack, goodbye.

Americans love guns because they make you more attractive! DUH!

I think the Guitar Hero controller in the pic says alot.....I can easily see Mr Tubbyfuzzy doing air guitar jams.

HighProphetOfDestruction wrote:Americans love guns because they make you more attractive! DUH!

Is that a Nambu Type 14 pistol in the left hand column?

Hot stuff! Crap weapon but major geek points.

Kilkrazy wrote:

HighProphetOfDestruction wrote:Americans love guns because they make you more attractive! DUH!

Is that a Nambu Type 14 pistol in the left hand column?

Hot stuff! Crap weapon but major geek points.

Its a Ruger .22 pistol, looks kinda like a nambu, but is pretty common here in the US.

If they are raving lunatics on methamphetamines or crack, goodbye.

No question, if you have to shoot somebody to save your own life, you do it. However, one of the things they taught me at a handgun self-defense course, was that if you shoot somebody, no matter how justified the shooting was, you just spent $250,000. That's the typical cost of the legal bills in order to get through the process of being exhonerated of blame. Even if you're totally innocent, you get none of that back.

You REALLY don't want to shoot somebody.

Americans love guns because they make you more attractive! DUH!

Actually, they do. In this case, the 1911 in his lap is obscuring part of his groin, which is making the picture marginally less nauseating.

Its a Ruger .22 pistol, looks kinda like a nambu

Ahhhhh, beat me to the gun nerdery. It does look like a Ruger, yes.

Americans don't really love guns, they just say that to get them into bed.

Americans don't really love guns, they just say that to get them into bed.

That, and get them in the mood with some serious Guitar Hero action.

"You like that baby? Yeah, you know I've got some Federal Hydrashok back in the bedroom? Awww, sheeet baby, I knew you was double action."

And then something about the Sex Pistols. Whatever.

Phryxis wrote:

No question, if you have to shoot somebody to save your own life, you do it. However, one of the things they taught me at a handgun self-defense course, was that if you shoot somebody, no matter how justified the shooting was, you just spent $250,000.

It depends on where you bury them. Oh wait... er never mind, nothing to see here...

I have a personal love of shotguns. You can shoot damn near anything out of a shotgun, I mean it. If it fits in the barrel, you can make it go boom. Flechette rounds, rubber slugs or shot, flares, flashbangs, grenades, breaching rounds, beanbags, flames, my uncle even shot some jacks (remember those?) and a steak knife (not together) out using a homemade primer round. Not terribly accurate, but fun to watch.

Mistress of minis wrote:

Henners91 wrote:I'm a weak guy, I'd feel safe with a gun in my house... But I wouldn't want to be like this guy:

Watch from 2:00 if you want to leap straight to what I'm talking about... just try and deny that this guy clearly has a stiffy over something designed to kill...



I feel it's people like him that make me stereotype you guys as I did in my OP.

Oh, and Blackwater themselves.

Or is it Xee or something now? I forget...

So- at 2:00 he's talking about the Frag 12 mini grenade.

Are you aware that the Frag 12 is British? designed by Experimental Cartridge Company- and tested by the UK Ministry of Defense back in 94.

So- do we want to do the stereotype thing?

And? I'm not exactly keen on our arms exports but I haven't (though please do link me an example) seen an example of a British person drooling over it...

Phryxis wrote:

I feel it's people like him that make me stereotype you guys as I did in my OP.

Ok, now consider this:

I could go find a video of a black dude beating somebody up and robbing him.

If you saw that, would you feel ok saying "hey, black people, are you all basically violent criminals?"

No. That's racist. And American, Canadian and British society busily ingrains its citizens with an almost compulsive, Clockwork Orange sort of contempt for racism.

So just ask yourself, why do you feel ok about generalizing one video of one guy to all gun owners, and in fact, based on your post title, all Americans?

I'd argue that it's because the people who spend their time clubbing "diversity" into all of our skulls aren't actually interested in "diversity" so much as in "giving the appearance of protecting their pet voting blocks."

's a fair enough point but I'd hasten to add that Americans aren't a repressed lower-class minority

Positive racial politics simply exists in order to allay our guilt that blacks are still unfortunately trapped in the lower echelons of western society... But before I cause some storm I'd happily move that conversation to PMs.

Henners91 wrote:

And? I'm not exactly keen on our arms exports but I haven't (though please do link me an example) seen an example of a British person drooling over it...

I got laid once from a British chick because of my rifle. She never held one before, but being the good American host I am, I showed her the way. God bless whoever came up with the idea of international summer camps

Do you guys really think there are these anonymous bogeymen out there all "doped up on crack or meth?" Or are your views about drugs and society completely from DARE?

Anyways, someone asked me if my house was ever broke into and yes it was. Granted I wasn't home but it did happen. It was when I was back in high school. Turns out it was some stupid kid from my school that thought I had a lot of pot at my house or something. After he broke in and didnt find anything like that, he stole i think like 4 or 5 playstation 1 games. Eventually he got arrested and I got my stuff back.
Now at the time my dad probably had 4 or 5 handguns in the house and maybe a dozen shotguns and rifles. If we were home I guess my dad could have killed this 17 year old kid "all hopped up on dangerous substances" just so we could be safe. Im glad he never even had the chance,but I dont see that as justified.

And obviously I know that this is just a specific example related to my life, but mistakes do happen when defending your home with guns. Now you might say "not gonna happen to me I took safety courses etc." Yeah odds are it wont. Odds are your house wont get broken into when your home either.

We all get our values from our parents, especially with stuff like guns, so maybe we should cool down on the angry rhetoric. My parents dont believe in sleeping next to a loaded gun just in case someone has the possibility of breaking in their home. Consequently, neither do I. I just lock my doors. Does wonders.

And how many of you middle class white males that make up the majority of 40k players really live in such rough neighborhoods? I mean I did in college and I never even needed a gun then.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Henners91 wrote:

And? I'm not exactly keen on our arms exports but I haven't (though please do link me an example) seen an example of a British person drooling over it...

I got laid once from a British chick because of my rifle. She never held one before, but being the good American host I am, I showed her the way. God bless whoever came up with the idea of international summer camps

Is rifle in this case a metaphor?

Wish I could've gone to camp :<

DutchKillsRambo wrote:

so maybe we should cool down on the angry rhetoric.

Then this right after.

And how many of you middle class white males

I love it.

Armaments are Britain's biggest export. We actually SELL Americans a lot of weapons! It's seems churlish to complain about it, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Henners91 wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Henners91 wrote:

And? I'm not exactly keen on our arms exports but I haven't (though please do link me an example) seen an example of a British person drooling over it...

I got laid once from a British chick because of my rifle. She never held one before, but being the good American host I am, I showed her the way. God bless whoever came up with the idea of international summer camps

Is rifle in this case a metaphor?

Wish I could've gone to camp :<

Why? Do you want to shag an American bloke that owns a gun?

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
And how many of you middle class white males

To be fair, most of us are likely WASPs, might be why there seems to be such a conservative slant on this forum when it comes to anything remotely political, most middle class white males be Republicans!

Albatross wrote:Armaments are Britain's biggest export. We actually SELL Americans a lot of weapons! It's seems churlish to complain about it, really.

Depends what view you take, realistically we're in an import/export deficit so exporting arms is fabaroo, but if you're not too keen on the King of Jordan getting a bunch of Challenger tanks or just wish that the UK could make like Sweden and never bother anyone... it's quite morally worrying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:Why? Do you want to shag an American bloke that owns a gun?

Meh, not like I get any action here... might as well give up on the English women and go one step down on the "list of feminine looking things" and pick American men? I'm just insinuating how ugleh our women can be...

DutchKillsRambo wrote:Do you guys really think there are these anonymous bogeymen out there all "doped up on crack or meth?" Or are your views about drugs and society completely from DARE?

Anyways, someone asked me if my house was ever broke into and yes it was. Granted I wasn't home but it did happen. It was when I was back in high school. Turns out it was some stupid kid from my school that thought I had a lot of pot at my house or something. After he broke in and didnt find anything like that, he stole i think like 4 or 5 playstation 1 games. Eventually he got arrested and I got my stuff back.
Now at the time my dad probably had 4 or 5 handguns in the house and maybe a dozen shotguns and rifles. If we were home I guess my dad could have killed this 17 year old kid "all hopped up on dangerous substances" just so we could be safe. Im glad he never even had the chance,but I dont see that as justified.

And obviously I know that this is just a specific example related to my life, but mistakes do happen when defending your home with guns. Now you might say "not gonna happen to me I took safety courses etc." Yeah odds are it wont. Odds are your house wont get broken into when your home either.

We all get our values from our parents, especially with stuff like guns, so maybe we should cool down on the angry rhetoric. My parents dont believe in sleeping next to a loaded gun just in case someone has the possibility of breaking in their home. Consequently, neither do I. I just lock my doors. Does wonders.

And how many of you middle class white males that make up the majority of 40k players really live in such rough neighborhoods? I mean I did in college and I never even needed a gun then.

That is a good point whether I agree with it or not. For instance, when I lived alone I would occasionally have a loaded firearm next to my bed. Now that I have a roomate and a fiance, I don't feel that I've had enough training or conditioning to use a firearm for defense safely in the middle of the night with other people in the house. In other words, I made a decision based on my own abilities and how much risk I had of someone actually doing something violent ( which I feel to be very small). Don't get me wrong, I'm going to fight if someone tries to invade my home, but I feel that is a very small risk. Other people my choose differently, and I respect that decision.

I could link newspaper articles ( one just occured recently ) where people have defended their home with a firearm, successfully, against armed intruders, and you or someone else could show me instances of accidental shootings by people using a firearm in defense. In other words, both are anecdotal. I have no doubt that accidental shootings occur more frequently than shootings in defense, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't consider using a firearm for defense, rather it is an example of how important firearms safety and education is.

In your case, I agree that it would probably be terrible if the individual in that instance had been killed. Of course, with a petty criminal like that, if someone had interrupted him, armed or not, he probably would have been running away as fast as he could. This is why that unlike many gun rights advocates, I am not a supporter of castle doctrine. I do not believe you should have carte blanche to shoot someone in your house just because they're trespassing. Just because there is a duty to retreat doesn't mean you're going to jail because you shoot an armed intruder who is, for instance, heading for your children's bedroom. Just like in the instance you mentioned, I believe that in all likelyhood the most sane option if you encountered someone like that would be to retreat ( assuming he didn't bail as soon as he heard you) and phone the police.

Frazzled wrote:

DutchKillsRambo wrote:

so maybe we should cool down on the angry rhetoric.

Then this right after.

And how many of you middle class white males

I love it.

That wasn't a bash or anything. Im a middle class white male. I mean I dont have the statistics but I would imagine that most wargamers out there would fall into this category. We are nerds after all.

Also realized my last post made me seem like some silly super liberal person that takes the criminals side. Im not. I just dont personally believe in keeping guns for home protection so I dont personally do it.

But thats the beauty of America. You can.

Frazzled wrote:

DutchKillsRambo wrote:

so maybe we should cool down on the angry rhetoric.

Then this right after.

And how many of you middle class white males

I love it.

Like most things, people on both sides of the argument need cooler heads.

Grignard wrote: Just because there is a duty to retreat doesn't mean you're going to jail because you shoot an armed intruder who is, for instance, heading for your children's bedroom. Just like in the instance you mentioned, I believe that in all likelyhood the most sane option if you encountered someone like that would be to retreat ( assuming he didn't bail as soon as he heard you) and phone the police.

What is this bolderdash? Duty to retreat is an outmoded, damnyankee concept. Youmay have a duty to retreat. I have none.

Florida recognizes no need to retreat. We hold to the Stand Your Ground law, and the Castle law. Although I do not own a gun, I'm glad that any burglar knows that if he's killed while burgling it is legally his fault for trespassing.

Frazzled wrote:

Grignard wrote: Just because there is a duty to retreat doesn't mean you're going to jail because you shoot an armed intruder who is, for instance, heading for your children's bedroom. Just like in the instance you mentioned, I believe that in all likelyhood the most sane option if you encountered someone like that would be to retreat ( assuming he didn't bail as soon as he heard you) and phone the police.

What is this bolderdash? Duty to retreat is an outmoded, damnyankee concept. Youmay have a duty to retreat. I have none.

I just don't feel there should be an inalienable right to shoot someone just because they're on your property. What happens if I want to kill someone and do so by inviting them onto my property then shooting them. In that case the burden of proving they weren't on your property to do ill rests on the shoulders of a dead man.

Like I said, a duty to retreat does not, or should not at least, mean you have to run if an armed ( or unarmed for that matter) intruder is trying to harm, or you have reasonable cause to believe they are trying to harm, you or your family.

Personally I can't see shooting some petty criminal who is stealing my microwave. Just call the police, or if you really don't want to lose that microwave, bust him upside the head with a two by four or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gitzbitah wrote:Florida recognizes no need to retreat. We hold to the Stand Your Ground law, and the Castle law. Although I do not own a gun, I'm glad that any burglar knows that if he's killed while burgling it is legally his fault for trespassing.

An unarmed intruder is automatically deserving of death? That is a lot different than someone who enters your house with a knife to do robbery or harm.

I think my position has been stated. The retreat rule was a joke used by prosecutors that puts people's lives in jeopardy. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grignard wrote:

An unarmed intruder is automatically deserving of death? That is a lot different than someone who enters your house with a knife to do robbery or harm.

In many states, the entrance into a residence in the commission of a crime meets the legal standard for self defense. in some states, that standard is statutorily written, or legally interpreted, as meaning self defense up to lethal defense. The legal presumption is for the GG.

Oh, I'm not killing any intruders- but I do think if I was a robber in a state where the residents of houses were legally able to kill me, I'd be much more hesitant about robbing. I think of it as a deterrent.