Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

Also if you think the Tau are communists because of their practice of join us and do what we say or die you might want to read up on the crusade to unify humanity before the Horus Heresy because it was the same exact thing. A galactic empire bringing planets under their control (often times forcefully) with the purpose of unification for all, and the Imperium didn't have it's anti xenos mindset then either.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

What's wrong with communists?

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

A manifesto?
Maybe try the original, and look at it the attempts of it in real life. Come back to me then.

Lets assume it possible to catch an ork without loosing too many Tau.
Lets assume they manage to find its brain. Lets also assume its possible to control it.
Maybe we realize then that an ork isn't a good choice for a army following the tactics of the Tau?
Wasted ressources at best. More Tau lost at the attempt then saved by using the ork at worst.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Why do you need to ask?

Terminus wrote:

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:. I hate the the Tau because I hate communism. My stomach turns at the merest thought. i do realize it is a game but its me I just cant do it. Communism is just too real and present.

I do hope you're joking here, otherwise I'm even sadder at the state of the educational system in this country.

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:What do you mean?

LOL, I guess we can take that for an answer

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

Bah, only communists read books

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Didn't you know that Stalin used a special perfume to start the communist revolution? See?

Lucid wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:IIRC Tau have faced a Slannesh devoted host once, the Kroot ate a bunch of Noise Marines and in the final battle with the Lord, they mutated and ripped a massive hole in the Tau lines, while the Firewarriors were "euphoric and sloppy" due to the "strange airborne toxins". The Tau don't know what Chaos is, only that any Kroot who eat the bodies of Chaos devotees must be incinerated and any humans worshipping it are freakishly hard to stop. The Tau also think that the Prince Of Excess is just some loony human with too much drugs and sex, that they can eventually kill....

This sounds interesting, where does this piece of fluff come from?

As I recall it was one of the fluff pieces in old GW website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyclonus wrote:
I remember when the Tau came out, they felt so shoe-horned, no two-facedness, no hidden agenda or ulterior motive, no massed genocides/atrocities committed on an hourly basis and considered par for the course by the basic Earth Caste worker or an Aun'O.

Actually fluff between 3rd and 4th edition Tau codices is almost unchanged. Arrival of the Ethereals - which hints that some more advanced race was behind it all - is same on both books. So is the suggestion that Ethereals use pheromones to control regular Tau. There were some fluff pieces which were removed and indeed described Tau in rather idealized fashion, but they were probably removed simply because they were boring rather than to change image of the race.

Tau had the 'grimdark behind the polished facade' thing going on right from the start, it just wasn't so obvious in the first book. Probably because they were unhappy how Necrons turned out...

1hadhq wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

A manifesto?
Maybe try the original, and look at it the attempts of it in real life. Come back to me then.

Lets assume it possible to catch an ork without loosing too many Tau.
Lets assume they manage to find its brain. Lets also assume its possible to control it.
Maybe we realize then that an ork isn't a good choice for a army following the tactics of the Tau?
Wasted ressources at best. More Tau lost at the attempt then saved by using the ork at worst.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Why do you need to ask?

The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.

It also dosen't help that America has been to war with almost every communist country for various reasons and so many Americans will hate it simply for that reason. The same way that acts of hate a racism became more common against American citizens originating from the Middle East simply because of the actions of Osama Bin Laden and his organisation even though these peoples have nothing to do with it.

So in my opinion if someone says that they hate Communism that's fine, it's completly their choice and they are free to it. But they should actually know what Communism is before saying that they hate it. And again as far as hating the Tau because they're "communists" which they aren't then those people hate the Imperium to because the Imperium has done the same thing that the Tau are currently doing. the only differance is that the Imperium partially failed in their version because of the actions of Horus.

And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

A)
The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.




B)
And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

A) Sometimes, a type of government gets the leaders it deserves.

B)
Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Drone-ified orks could be manual labor for civilian needs, and I think the main reason for commie bashing is partially the whole "Senator McCartney sez commie=antiamerican" mentality, the iron curtain, the division of Germany, the cold war, ect. Those involved in the cold war still (for the most part) hate the other side. But having a society with leaders and ranks of power, and a CLASS SYSTEM is very anti-commie. the entire progression of a common fire warrior eventually becoming a shas'o battlefield leader, a common person becoming a member of the government, is about as pro-democratic as you can get. Whereas in the corrupt communist system of the USSR, promotions of this sort were done by the elite class's personal preferences and favorites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:

micahaphone wrote:I personally like Tau, but hate anime (why are the eyes so big? Why? WHY???? Why does a giant line of sweat coming off of your head symbolize dissapointment? WHY?!?) /endrant

I have bought the codex, and while I like the options, the minimal fluff section vs. the fluff of the space marine codex made me when I first bought it. I believe the term for such a stripped down codex is "jervisified". I like the way they play, with lots of firepower and high mobility for your troops, using devilfishes. And I don't see why they're considered "the ultimate good", when if you don't agree to join their empire, they take the fire cast and your society up its . Just sayin', actually having negotiators doesn't make you the good guys. Believe it or not, there are other diplomatic options than "Lets nuke 'em".

Heresy. Please enjoy the inquisitorial stormtroopers currently in route to your location.

And have a grimdark day.

Don't worry, I don't have any models yet. My space marines still firmly believe in stomping the ing out of every who s with the ing imperium. So basically, ing ers ing ers

Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss

"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss

"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

1hadhq wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

A)
The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.

B)
And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

A) Sometimes, a type of government gets the leaders it deserves.

B)
Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what
should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Yes sometimes governments get leaders that they deserve but considering that there have been multiple types of governments through out history that have been led by a person or persons whose moral compass dosen't exactly point North (including America) this can hardly be a reflection of the government but instead a confirmation that EVERYONE is capable of doing wrong.

And as was said above manual labor is an option but even at that you may have forgotten that Orks do have fingers which means that they do have the ability to pull a trigger, if a situation arises were the loss of Tau lives would be too large they can simply use the Orks. Or if need be they can perform a rearguard action allowing the Tau to retreat with minimal casualties. It also gives the Tau the ability to wage larger conflicts against their more attrition based enemies. While the Ork Drones engage the hordes (acting as bait and distracting them) the Tau Battlesuits and Fire Warriors engage the main threats such as command staff and such without losing personel.

And you mentioned the Orks rebeling? I said they where labotomised and parts of their brain are replaced with mechanical upgrades allowing Tau to controle them (and to the above comment of "assuming the Tau could find the Orks brain" here is a hint, it's in their heads).

If you remove the part of an Orks brain that gives it free thought and will with a device designed to controle the Ork how can they rebel? Heck there is even an Ork Dok who tried to do this same exact thing in the Conquest of Armageddon book, the only reason it failed was because of a malfunction with the Doks technology. a mistake that would not be made by the Tau. It is the same thing that the Imperium does with servitors. And it allows the Orks to serve the Greater Good (which is all that the Tau care about) even if unwillingly.

@ Asimo77: Exactly my point, I don't think I've veer been able to have an intelliectual discussion (besides talking with my Political Sciences teacher) about Communism without sombody accusing someone else of actually being a Communist because of the general bias towards it. Not that I care as I actually have no political association .

@ Micahphone: I agree, the idea/general goal behind Communism I think is a good one but the way that Communist countries have tried to reach that goal in the past is just

Would it be wrong of me to point out that the Roman Republic (which, famously, conquered and subjugated the vast majority of Europe, even when not under the auspices of an emperor) was, in fact... a republic?

The type of government alone does not make the people who run the country good and just.

There are corrupt democracies.

There are communist countries that can be described as nothing short of well-oiled machines.

A few bad leaders does not a bad form of government make.

SaintHazard wrote:Would it be wrong of me to point out that the Roman Republic (which, famously, conquered and subjugated the vast majority of Europe, even when not under the auspices of an emperor) was, in fact... a republic?

The type of government alone does not make the people who run the country good and just.

There are corrupt democracies.

There are communist countries that can be described as nothing short of well-oiled machines.

A few bad leaders does not a bad form of government make.

Exactly, another well put example

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

You mean they'll turn into this

Oh look! Citizens of the Farsight Enclaves. How nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:@EF: What I meant by tech was stereotypical Sci-Fi. At least from everything I have seen.

So...what do you class as 'Stereotypical Sci-Fi Tech'?

Space Travel
Eldar: Have eco-friendly sails in space that soak up the rays of the sun. Enabling them to go pretty much wherever they want, whenever they want. So long as the juice lasts.
Necrons: These guys are just so "WTHFS?!?" in their space tech it's impossible to compare.
Tau: Tau fleets are neato. Lotsa lotsa missile pods, but nothing really approaching definitive warp travel and other cool gizmos similar to the other two. Works well enough for them.

Weapons
Eldar: Basic shuriken weapons shoot crazy ninja...well, shurikens. Nothing too fancy. Wraithguard/Lords/Bone on the other hand, that's way out of the Tau's leauge.
Necrons: Their basic weapons glance Land Raiders.
Tau: Neato shooting, Str 10 Ap 1 single shot lasers. Cool. High-powered, but compared to the Necrons not high tech.

Armour
Eldar: Eh. What can you say?
Necrons: Takes the cake.
Tau: Beats Eldar, not Necrons.

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

"@ Asimo77: Exactly my point, I don't think I've ever been able to have an intelliectual discussion (besides talking with my Political Sciences teacher) about Communism without sombody accusing someone else of actually being a Communist because of the general bias towards it. Not that I care as I actually have no political association ."

While uncommon I'll accept this as your surrender towards the guiding light of truth, justice, and love known as...DEMOCRACY





P.S. I'm joking, the quotes from Fallout 3, which you should play if you haven't. I just don't think DakkaDakka is the place for any political discussion (that should stay in your classroom probably). So let's get it back to tau.

Jump shoot jump. Run from my Berzerkers...you will only die tired little Tau.

@ asimo77: Ah gotcha, I'll have to try it but right now I'm waiting for Halo Reach and then Fable 3

Personally, I like the wargarble about Tau being communist (and I agree that it isn't communist due to the caste system) when there is nothing about the Imperium being fascist. There is no good in Warhammer, none, there is only propaganda.

And I love the Tau, I love being able to take out an entire squad of fire warriors with a single marine in close combat.

If only I could give my terminators railguns. Or oblits, I'd trade every single gun they possess for them to have railguns.

Vene wrote:Personally, I like the wargarble about Tau being communist (and I agree that it isn't communist due to the caste system) when there is nothing about the Imperium being fascist. There is no good in Warhammer, none, there is only propaganda.

And I love the Tau, I love being able to take out an entire squad of fire warriors with a single marine in close combat.

If only I could give my terminators railguns. Or oblits, I'd trade every single gun they possess for them to have railguns.

Oh come now. Melta Guns are so much more... ballsy.

Okay, I admit, melta does kick ass, but I can give the short range units meltaguns.

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

And as was said above manual labor is an option but even at that you may have forgotten that Orks do have fingers which means that they do have the ability to pull a trigger, if a situation arises were the loss of Tau lives would be too large they can simply use the Orks. Or if need be they can perform a rearguard action allowing the Tau to retreat with minimal casualties. It also gives the Tau the ability to wage larger conflicts against their more attrition based enemies. While the Ork Drones engage the hordes (acting as bait and distracting them) the Tau Battlesuits and Fire Warriors engage the main threats such as command staff and such without losing personel.

And you mentioned the Orks rebeling? I said they where labotomised and parts of their brain are replaced with mechanical upgrades allowing Tau to controle them (and to the above comment of "assuming the Tau could find the Orks brain" here is a hint, it's in their heads).

If you remove the part of an Orks brain that gives it free thought and will with a device designed to controle the Ork how can they rebel? Heck there is even an Ork Dok who tried to do this same exact thing in the Conquest of Armageddon book, the only reason it failed was because of a malfunction with the Doks technology. a mistake that would not be made by the Tau. It is the same thing that the Imperium does with servitors. And it allows the Orks to serve the Greater Good (which is all that the Tau care about) even if unwillingly.

Seems you try to evade the point of 'recrutement cost'.
Can't get orks for free. Maybe try to grow your own small little greenskin and do a bit surgery until its a 'cybork' ?
Sounds nice, but ignores the fact that those creatures are fungi, and a centre of free thought may not exist where you deem to find it.
Orks follow basic instincts, they also get carried away in a waagh.
So youre basically attempting to pacify them ( if there is no need for their violence ) all day and release them like combat servitors?
This you imagine to achieve with a race so opposite to Tau beliefs, whilst Tau seem unable to stay clear from great ideas of
"meet and greet" with necrons? Would say Tau do not understand other races intentions enough to even stand a chance to
control the minds of orks without unwelcome results. Maybe orks need violence to live? The lack of peaceful orks should give you a hint.

This mind control thing may work for Tau ( etherals ) or their insects ( vespids ), but orks?
If such is an option, manipulative races like Eldar would have used orks this way. But they didin't, cause they know better than to taint
every planet 'your' ork is on with more and uncontrolled orks.

OTOH, Tau would be naive enough to awaken with their empire overrun with ork 'slaves'.,......

CrazyThang wrote:

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

It tends to be a mixture. While encountering highly advanced races, other Sci-Fi humans tend to run into the exact opposite in the form of primitives. In some areas human technology outstrips Tau, but human tech is in decline, Tau tecnology isn't. The same could be said with Sci-Fi humans and their experimental weaponry. However, it's more the naive approach to the galaxy and their place in it that mirrors the humans in other Sci-Fi areas than technological aspects.

Again in a bit more detail.
The Emperor says so :3

Actually that tidbit about Slannesh came from a White Dwarf circa Tau release.

I am aware of the Aun being blatant example of interference but the hints felt like it was a case of the Old Ones having one last failsafe to stop their final creation from going all the way off the rails. I also never felt that Ethereal's mindcontrol ability thingy was really that grimdark. I mean everyone else seems to get possession or multiple-personality social orders.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Wouldn't they fulfill the same role as the Kroot except be better at it?

Sounds like some awfully expensive bait.

Tarkand wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Wouldn't they fulfill the same role as the Kroot except be better at
it?

This is miss quoted as I wasen't the one who said it.

In response to what was said earlier about me "avoiding" the recruitment cost of the process I've done no such thing. I didn't think I had to address it simply because the Tau are one of if not the most productive race in the 40k universe so the parts needed for controle would be manufactored just as easily as Drones are. As far as how the Tau would aquire the Orks that are used it's simple, collect the spores from a dead Ork, encourage them to grow in a controled environment and go from there.

As far as the Ork center of free thought not being in their brains due to being part fungal I highly doubt it as there would be no reason for it, why would the Old Ones have put it in any other place then the Orks brain?. And even if they did I've got a real simple solution for it "the Tau scientists examining the Orks body find where the center is" I mean they're able to develop advanced technology I think they are able to perform a simple search of an Orks body to find it's ceneter of free will and thought (which again has no reason to be outside the brain). The fungal aspect of Orks is represented in their ability to absorb incredible amounts of damage and live, their method of reproduction and their resistance to hostile environments.

As far as basic instincts yes the Orks do use them but then so does every other race in the galaxy but free will can over ride instincts in intelligent life forms (it feels weird calling the Orks intelligent but technicly they are they just aren't civilised). And agan basic instincts are controled by the sections of the brain (or nerve clusters/stems in lesser creatures). So I point out AGAIN that the relative parts of the Ork brain are replaced by components which enable the Tau to controle them. These aren't restraint devices where if the Ork acts up they get a shock. They are living creatures with cybernetic brains controlled by seperate source.

The Eldar aren't that kind of race. They don't have a drive to unite all races under a common cause so they would have no need to perform that type of procedure on an Ork. especially when they can just trick the Orks into doing what they want anyway.

^ He said it.

The Tau are extremely efficient and very creative. Of all the races in 40k, they're the only race that actually strives to advance themselves scientifically. Orks can only build what's hardcoded into their DNA, Eldar do everything they want with Wraithbone (stereotypical Space Elves right there, get your technology up to a level then don't make a single scientific advance for thousands (millions even) of years). The Imperium fears technology that they don't have an STC for. Necrons are advancing technologically, but very slowly and only when they really need to (see: Pariahs). Nids don't really have technology, per se, they just evolve extremely quickly. Chaos does everything with Warpstuff.

That's one of the many, many reasons I love the Tau.

Oh, and to actually make a point... that's why they'd have no issue turning an Ork into a dronebody.

I practically live on the Eastern fringe there are a ton of Tau players down here ! Besides a space wolves , blood angels , Chaos, and another guard it's the only army to play when you can find a game or anyone shows.