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Kroothawk wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Well a moderated compromise between socialism(NOT communism, big difference) and capitalism seems to be a good alternative. Yes, this means high taxes. Yes, this means free healthcare/education. Look at Sweden. Ridiculously high taxes, but good healthcare, free higher education, great vacation times from work(are you a new father? Go ahead, take a extremely long break to spend some time with your baby). It's all a matter of opinions.

micahaphone wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Well a moderated compromise between socialism(NOT communism, big difference) and capitalism seems to be a good alternative. Yes, this means high taxes. Yes, this means free healthcare/education. Look at Sweden. Ridiculously high taxes, but good healthcare, free higher education, great vacation times from work(are you a new father? Go ahead, take a extremely long break to spend some time with your baby). It's all a matter of opinions.

I think some of it does depend on what you want from your society, but I don't think this is really the best place to discuss politics.

I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

.............snip.......................

In response to what was said earlier about me "avoiding" the recruitment cost of the process I've done no such thing. I didn't think I had to address it simply because the Tau are one of if not the most productive race in the 40k universe so the parts needed for controle would be manufactored just as easily as Drones are. As far as how the Tau would aquire the Orks that are used it's simple, collect the spores from a dead Ork, encourage them to grow in a controled environment and go from there.


The Eldar aren't that kind of race. They don't have a drive to unite all races under a common cause so they would have no need to perform that type of procedure on an Ork. especially when they can just trick the Orks into doing what they want anyway.

Most productive you say? Any proof of that?

Lets see. Tau got drones. Why should 'ork-drones' contribute more than pure drones?
If they wanted CC oriented drones, they could make some. Plus tech allows to fit weapons on, needs no food, has no morale to care for,
etc etc...
Where are the benefits of 'ork-drones' ?

But there are the drawbacks, did mention one major of them, ie spores of orks everywhere and soon orks at every sept world.
From the POV of an human, yes Tau should attempt to do 'ork-drones', lots of fun for us to look at the Greater good replaced by greater
waagh.....

IMHO, Tau were meant to have no real CC unit. Adding CC experts ( orks ) sounds a bit like grabbing the whole cake and trying to run away with it....

Its nice to have you agree that Eldar would get their will with tricks. Now if you just admit that those space elfs aren't willing to
control the uncontrollable with tech.....

Because it should have been codex mercenaries with a heavy focus on kroot.

Kroot are twenty times more awesome then tau.

And just to point out with what SaintHazard said the Eldar are even losing their knowledge of how to maintain and create their technology. Their codex even says this.

SaintHazard wrote:

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Basilisks.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Basilisks.

Deathstrike missiles
(from the other table in the adjacent room, obviously )

Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

SaintHazard wrote:Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

Not even, armor dies once someone decides to deploy it and not hold it in reserve.

only time Armor stands a welk's chance in a supernova is when they are held in reserve.

Case in point: had a "CRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!" moment with my Tau a few days ago, my outflanking pathfinders where outflanked by 3 'russes the turn after they outflanked (was quite the "lolwut" moment). It was truly a tactical genius move, because the squad of XV8s i had in reserve scattered, and was lost to the warp.




Edit: 7 pages of Tau hating? Geeze dakka

Got to page 5, and have to say I never cared much for Tau really. But after reading to page 5 I kinda want to start a Tau army, if not just for the shiny models from FW.

I do think they fit in with 40k but I think the only thing that I have a gripe with is that they appeared from no where and are very high on the tech. How could they go unnoticed??. I havent read any fluff on them, so I don't know if they have had past encounters with any of the others races that introduces them slowly into the world of 40k. If you know what I mean.

Eberious wrote:Got to page 5, and have to say I never cared much for Tau really. But after reading to page 5 I kinda want to start a Tau army, if not just for the shiny models from FW.

I do think they fit in with 40k but I think the only thing that I have a gripe with is that they appeared from no where and are very high on the tech. How could they go unnoticed??. I havent read any fluff on them, so I don't know if they have had past encounters with any of the others races that introduces them slowly into the world of 40k. If you know what I mean.

Actually, this is one of my least favorite parts of their fluff.

They went unnoticed for a couple thousand years due to a warp storm forcing Imperial ships to travel around T'au.

Before this happened, an Ad Mech ship did discover T'au, but the only creatures living there were primitive and not even worth a second glance from the Imperium. Cue warp storm.

Five thousand years later, the Tau have rapidly evolved, developed stunning technology, come under the auspices of the Ethereals, and begun to expand after the warp storm has abated.

It all sounds very contrived, but there it is.

Considering that fluctuations of the warp are frequently the work of Gods, then I'd say that Yes, the Tau only exist because of a classical case of Deus Ex Machina.

That would answer my wondering. cheers SaintHazard.

Am I off base for wondering why people are comparing Tau technology to the Necrons and Eldar? Aren't those two literally leagues ahead of all others? I had kind of gotten the impression that Tau technology was actually really comparable to the Imperium in terms of 'advanced-ness'.

The Tau strengths for technology is that they have their stuff together and are still advancing quickly. They have good, powerful and safe equipment they give to all their troops. The Imperium has powerful and dangerous (to the user) weapons and a fighting force of variable quality gear.

No?

More or less correct, especially since Necrons don't die and the Eldar's idea of manufacturing is to sing until Hell starts spitting out bone, I'd say Eldar and Necrons can be considered leaps and bounds beyond Tau or Human technology.

As for Tau versus Mankind, I disagree. Mankind used to have some pretty spiffy stuff, until the Dark Age, then it lost around 95% of it. Now we're left with the same goddamn technology for the last ten thousand years. The Tau, on the other hand, have gone from sticks and stones to pulse rifles and jetpacks over the course of about five thousand years, and if special issue wargear is any indication, the trend continues. Not to mention Tau technology typically beats the crap out of human technology. When every vehicle is a skimmer and your basic infantry have armor comparable to a Space Marine scout, you're a bit ahead of the guys with cardboard vests and tanks on caterpillar treads. And basic infantry weapons? S5 AP5 30" versus S3 AP- 24"?

Yeah, the Tau got a leg up on Mankind, for sure.

Well at least the IoM can afford to bleed on the tau until they drown. That's how the IG usually win...

Yes Necron and Eldar technology can be considered ahead of that of the Tau but at the same time those 2 factions have been around longer then the Tau and have had more time to develop their technology. But the Tau are one of the most rapidly adapting races in terms of technology, if the Tau have a problem they overcome it with science. They are advancing in terms of technology far faster then any other race.

As far as I know the Necrons aren't developing anything new as they don't need to, they are their technology. The Eldars level of tech is actually declining because the methods of maintaining and creating some of the more advanced examples are being lost. Although their technology is still far ahead of the Imperium I woulden't say it's that far ahead of the Tau, the only things they still have advantages in are psyker based.

As was said before the Imperium once had amazing technology including jetbikes and such. But this was lost and now they are left replicating basic designs without understanding how they work or being able to advance upon what they do have because of superstition. Those advancments that they do have are just variations of the same thing and to my knowledge have mostly been pioneered by the Space Marines (in example the Land Raider Crusader variant created by the Black Templars).

So while some of the other races are still farther along then the Tau the Tau are known for their technology simply because they are making advancments at such a rapid pace.

Because at the end of the day, nobody likes a anime fan. (W33aboo doesn't mean anime fan...)

I would also like to add in that the Nightbringer's shooting attack is S9 AP2 24" inches.

Railgun is a S10 AP1 72" weapon. So yeah tau probably have the advantage when it comes to tech.

"Because at the end of the day, nobody likes a anime fan. "

I still dont get the anime thing, then again I don't watch any so maybe tau are exactly like it

SaintHazard wrote:Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

Turn 1? At a table worth playing on?
Ever heard of opening firing at maximum effective range? Look up the stats again...

Plus, using Tech seems fine, until you realize that tech can be located, whilst artillery can silently wait for you.

asimo77 wrote:Well at least the IoM can afford to bleed on the tau until they drown. That's how the IG usually win...

Well said


IMO, the story of a race isn't a undisturbed line of achievements and victorys. The Tau are maybe too young to have their problems yet,
but time will stop for no one and we shall see their fall.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

It tends to be a mixture. While encountering highly advanced races, other Sci-Fi humans tend to run into the exact opposite in the form of primitives. In some areas human technology outstrips Tau, but human tech is in decline, Tau tecnology isn't. The same could be said with Sci-Fi humans and their experimental weaponry. However, it's more the naive approach to the galaxy and their place in it that mirrors the humans in other Sci-Fi areas than technological aspects.

Good point.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

My opinion is that the Ehtereals are latent psychics and don't want anyone to know; that's why each Tau fleet has an overlord/ethereal present.

OR

They use intricate planning, thus the phased expansion plans. Regional headquarters that utilize constant relayed communications between outposts. Each commander is given a specific goal and free reign to complete it, this is how Farsight was able to go rogue so easily; it took a while for word to get back to HQ and by then it was too late. Reading the fluff, the Tau expansions seem like constant OMG! moments; "Hey, there's a planet and look there's these green guys trying to kill us." (met Orks) or "Look there, it's a spherical ship under attack, let's go help them and see if they're likable." (met the Kroot) or "Hey, there's this huge fleet of ships full of bugs trying to munch our brains, I wonder where they came from." (Tau meet nids) or "We ran across some worlds full of aliens that don't mind trading with us but are afraid some some group called spehs meerines" (Tau meet humans).

I don't know about psychics, but they do release a pheromone that makes the Tau susceptible to their influence. That's probably why Farsight's conclave actually have personalities now.

Because they suck.

Terminus wrote:I don't know about psychics, but they do release a pheromone that makes the Tau susceptible to their influence. That's probably why Farsight's conclave actually have personalities now.

That's the idea.

The idea is also that Farsight found out about the Ethereals' penchant for mind control, and thus decided to leave The Collective.

Don't worry. Shadowsun's got it. They'll be re-assimilated before too long.

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

My opinion is that the Ehtereals are latent psychics and don't want anyone to know; that's why each Tau fleet has an overlord/ethereal present.

OR

They use intricate planning, thus the phased expansion plans. Regional headquarters that utilize constant relayed communications between outposts. Each commander is given a specific goal and free reign to complete it, this is how Farsight was able to go rogue so easily; it took a while for word to get back to HQ and by then it was too late. Reading the fluff, the Tau expansions seem like constant OMG! moments; "Hey, there's a planet and look there's these green guys trying to kill us." (met Orks) or "Look there, it's a spherical ship under attack, let's go help them and see if they're likable." (met the Kroot) or "Hey, there's this huge fleet of ships full of bugs trying to munch our brains, I wonder where they came from." (Tau meet nids) or "We ran across some worlds full of aliens that don't mind trading with us but are afraid some some group called spehs meerines" (Tau meet humans).

Its been posted already. The Tau use Warp courier drones, despite all their technology the Imperium has better interstellar communications, Astropaths can transmit instantaneusly, while the drones have to fly through the warp and then transmit to a relay when it reaches Tau space. Its another reason why Farsight was able to go Rogue, the drones reporting the message had to get all the way back to T'au, as his betrayal was initially hushed up.

Astropaths can communicate instantly until the Emperor dies and the Astronomican ceases to be lit.

Next edition, hopefully?

SaintHazard wrote:Astropaths can communicate instantly until the Emperor dies and the Astronomican ceases to be lit.

Next edition, hopefully?

Too bad the Emperor increases the range of the astronomican but it doesn't need him to work.
Plus the immortal God Emperor can't die.

Next edition we'll see GW fall back to M30, as M42 isn't viable anymore after several fluff 'improvements' of their greatest codiciers of 5th ed.