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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

KingDeath wrote:The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...

Railguns become SKULLGUNS
Farsight becomes a Tau-Daemon hybrid who is made of SKULLS
The Tau no longer incorporate new races into their culture, they just harvest their SKULLS in huge SKULLSHAPED deathcamps
to show everyone how grimdark they are.

Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

More personality. They tend to blend together, there's no way to have a good chat with any of them.

You wish to chat with the alien, citizen? Please hand yourself over to the next Arbites patrol for immediate reeducation.

Three main reasons I see (and am hearing in this thread):

1) They're only there to draw anime fans into the game.

This may be true, and I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. I hate anime fans. No, not those of you who just simply enjoy anime, or feel that it's worth watching. You know who I'm talking about. Greasy kids with Dragonball Z t-shirts carrying a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh cards covered in plastic so as not to get their messy hand-grease on them, wearing Pikachu hats. Those idiots. I don't want them in my hobby.

2) They don't contribute to the 40k universe enough to matter.

This may be true currently, but couldn't the same be said in 3rd about Necrons and Tyranids? Couldn't the same be said about Genestealer Cults before Nids actually came into play as they are? They're a young race. Give them a chance to update for 5th edition before you make this claim.

3) They're not grimdark enough.

This is where I have to disagree. I absolutely love it (sincerely) when people are under the impression that since I play Tau, I play the good guys. I let them believe that. But look at the Tau. While they're less likely to kill you outright for being a filthy Xeno than the Imperium, look at how they let you into their club. They come along, decide you could be useful to them, present their terms (absolute unerring servitude or death) and let you decide what to do about it while you're sitting at the wrong end of an orbital bombardment. Then, when they DO let you into their club, they outfit your leaders with mind control helmets (Vespid), use you as bait in battle (Kroot) or happily sterilize you, put you in a concentration camp, then toss you out onto a border world with a blanket, a flashlight, and the clothes on your back and say, "Defend this planet. No, we're not coming back for you. Unless you fail. Then we'll kill you." (humans).

Furthermore, the only reason the concept of the "Greater Good" is so prevalent probably has something to do with the subtle mind-control devices created by the Ethereals. Not to mention that any Tau obeys any Ethereal... not out of loyalty, but due to pheromones that make any Tau purely submissive to any Ethereal. There are whispers that Farsight actually divorced himself from the Tau Empire when he learned about how the benevolent Ethereals were keeping order among their beloved subjects!

So let's take stock. We've got mind control, sterilization, concentration camps, "join us or die" imperialism, and more propaganda than you can shake a stick at.

Sounds pretty grimdark to me.

We hate tau? Since when? I seriously had no idea of this. I don't see anything wrong with tau except their small impact on the galaxy, which Games-Workshop will hopefully rectify in the next codex.

ChrisCP wrote:Because the only group player refuses to learn to play them well, so it turns into an arm sweep everytime... or he put no terrain on the board and says 'what'.

My friend plays Tau and EVERY time it comes to put terrain he puts "A giant cloud" on the middle of the field... I put a massive building right in the middle :p

The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Apostle Pat wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Maybe it's playing against the old 9 Rail Cannon lists a few times, but I have a lot of Respect for the army. If you can OMGWTFBBQPWN everything from your table edge the need for CC is abated a bit.

I don't mind the Tau that much but I wouldn't like to play them.
I don't really get all the hate directed toward the Tau in general.

Monster Rain wrote:

Apostle Pat wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Maybe it's playing against the old 9 Rail Cannon lists a few times, but I have a lot of Respect for the army. If you can OMGWTFBBQPWN everything from your table edge the need for CC is abated a bit.

Agreed... I think he my Tau friend fielded 9 RC I'd just say good game. he's only ever fielded 4 at the most and he mostly uses Oshavah and 9 crysis suits... ya know the Death Star lol... but LC Termies cut it to pieces.

The only beef I have with them is that to me that really really feel shoe horned into the fluff. Since they came in much later. Necrons came in at the same time but there story fights much much better while the tau doesnt fit as well.

But other then that I like them. I enjoy there look as its diffrent from everything else and unique.

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

If that's in response to my comment, then you've obviously never tried to conduct a quiet game of 40k in the same room as a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament consisting of thirty some odd screaming children (and manchildren).

It's not elitism, it's a lack of patience for and tolerance of extremely irritating behavior.

Tau are xeno anime scum. I don't like scum or anime. They should be erased from 40k.

Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

Melissia wrote:Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

I like the quotation marks there, M.

Melissia wrote:Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe. The Tau are hardly morally "good." They're about as "good" as an amaglamation of the Nazis and the Persian Empire from 300.


If the Tau are good guys, then so are the Imperium. I don't think GW had any intention of trying to make the Tau seem like "Good guys".

I had a tau army when they first came out....


hated them, then again I have always been a lover of cc. I did not make the change to ranged attack well.

I sold the army to expand my greenskins and been happy eversince.

Darth Bob wrote:Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe.

Yes, that IS exactly why Tau don't fit in.

Melissia wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe.

Yes, that IS exactly why Tau don't fit in.

Um.

Have you not been paying attention?

Read my first post in this thread, then read the two sentences directly after the one you quoted in Darth Bob's post.

And you'll see that they do fit in for exactly this reason.

Yes, in their current incarnation they do, because there's hints of darker stuff in newer material. When they were originally put in, though, they were imagined to be an unambiguously good race.

I feel that Tau are boring. The don't have alot of fluff, they seem emotionless, no passion.

They have never been fleshed out in fluff, and seem just plain old boring.

Melissia wrote:Yes, in their current incarnation they do, because there's hints of darker stuff in newer material. When they were originally put in, though, they were imagined to be an unambiguously good race.

Fair enough.

So judge them based on what they are, not what they were at their conception.

I do, I was just saying why I think they are disliked. Personally I'm fine with the "hidden grimdark" in them as they are right now... actually I debated starting a Tau army... either them or Eldar after I finish bringing my Guard up to 2k.

Oh, well, fair enough.

KingDeath wrote:The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...
Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

Clearly, until GW adds Chaos Tau with extra spiky bits, it is not possible to take them seriously as a major civilization.

I don't hate the Tau. I like having a lot of variety in my futuristic never-ending wars and I find 40K is best at that. However, if Tau were as popular as say Space Marines and everyone had Tau armies then it certainly wouldn't feel very 40Kish. At a glance it would seem like some sort of anime tabletop game. However, it isn't like that I I think they look good on the tabletop especially if you can get some of their cool alien allies in there.

Anyways, Space Marine haters sometimes call Space Marines the Mary Sues of Warhammer. I disagree with that. I would say The Tau are the Mary Sues because most of the rules that apply to this grim and dark universe simply don't seem to apply to the Tau. The two biggest are:

The Warp. The Immaterium is hell made manifest but also a neccessary evil for the rest of the Galaxy. No race wants anything to do with it but it's just needed for intergalactic travel and communication. Not for Tau though! Their Empire is conveniently "densely packed" and therefore they can just sort of skip along the warp. As for that psychics being dangerous but neccesary for intersteller communication problem? Well, we'll just ignore that.

The conudrum of governance in a very dangerous galaxy. How to balance the rule of law with freedom is the basis of much great fiction and of course real life discussion. In 40K the perceived monsters are under your bed are real but the absolute tyranny required to suppress them ends up creating the strife that creates those monsters. It's a never-ending dystopian cycle. Not for Tau though! They simply sprinkle magical leadership pixie dust on their subjects! The issues of civilization and interpersonal relationships that philosophes have pondered since time immemorable: Fixed! Fabulous!

SaintHazard wrote:3) They're not grimdark enough.

40k Players dont know what grim dark is till they've seen Berserk.

Which ironically is a manga / anime

@ KamikazeCanuck - You're right.

Instead of their oppressive, stark, imperialistic attitude being driven by the constant threat from beyond (the Warp) and the constant threat from within (heresy), it's driven by the fact that they're just plain bastards.

I posit that the Tau are grimdarker even than the Imperium because of this. At least the Imperium has an excuse for their attitude towards aliens - if they don't kill it, it could very well kill them.

The Tau know full well they could crush the entire Kroot civilization in a matter of years, and leave no trace they ever existed. Instead, they decide to use them as bait, so they can crush entire other civilizations.

God I love the Tau!

only tau that is interesting is only thanks to deamon weapon

BloodQuest wrote:Clearly, until GW adds Chaos Tau with extra spiky bits, it is not possible to take them seriously as a major civilization.

It has nothing to do with that. Rather, GW tried to make them, originally, unambiguously "good". And it just didn't fit.

They're better now than they used to be, but there's still some wallbanger stuff-- like being able to push back an entire splinter fleet without losing a single ship? Wait what?

Most of the people in my area hate tau because of the one guy who uses the kroot & suit tactic, and they all refuse to use flamers against it.
When i started (roughly 6 months after 5th ed), I decided that Farsight looked awesome and decided to theme an army around him. Since then, he has killed nearly every single other special character in the game somehow, and has only died once in close combat. However, when a group of 5 boyz shoots their sluggas at him, he dies like a little girl...

That being said, generally people dislike them for one of two reasons:
1) They're too nice/not grimdark/animehook/[insert other canon/niche reel]
2) They're too hard to play with/against because they require more than "put speehs murrenz in razorbacks, drive forward, shoot lots, have th/ss termies w/ vulkan assault out of LRC" or "Nob bikers'' or ''IG meltavets in vendettas"

That being said, the greater good was the beginning. The ethereals brought us together, but then were corrupted by their own arrogance. Now begins the campaigns of the fire caste. Now is the time of the Taun'Vior.