Dawn of War 2: Retribution

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**ChrisWWII**

EmilCrane wrote:Anyone have any ideas what the next race will be?

Also, will there be a SM campaign, I quite like my squad leaders.

As said earlier in the thread, bets for the new race are leaning towards either: IG, Inquisition, or some kind of mixture of both.

I honestly can't see Relic taking out the SM campaign....though if the new race is IG, they could do something like WA where the Marines are more there as a side support role. Maybe the campaign could be that you're the leader of the IG Battle Group sent to investigate what in Terra's Holy Name the Blood Ravens are up to. I'd like to think that a civil war in a SM chapter (and more importantly, the Chapter Master going rogue) would be something that'd escape the local Imperial governor's attention for long.

**EmilCrane**

The local imperial governor is rogue too though.

**ChrisWWII**

EmilCrane wrote:The local imperial governor is rogue too though.

Then whoever's above him. A Space Marine chapter tends to have more responsibility then the local sub-sector.

**Melissia**

The current local governor-- Elena Derosa-- isn't rogue.

As for Space Marines, it's been ten years since Chaos Rising ended. If we do get a Space Marine campaign, expect not to play the same characters.

**Raxor**

Melissia wrote:The current local governor-- Elena Derosa-- isn't rogue.

As for Space Marines, it's been ten years since Chaos Rising ended. If we do get a Space Marine campaign, expect not to play the same characters.

Why? Did the crew from the original games retire and settle down on Terra to raise families?

**EmilCrane**

Melissia wrote:The current local governor-- Elena Derosa-- isn't rogue.

As for Space Marines, it's been ten years since Chaos Rising ended. If we do get a Space Marine campaign, expect not to play the same characters.

I was referring to Governor Vandis. But now I remember Derosa taking his spot, forcibly.

**Melissia**

Because they've already progressed to level thirty, one of them becoming a full fledged captain. Their abilities were highly lethal and they basically just walked through any threats before them shy of a greater daemon. They killed two avatars, and commanded tanks in a massive assault, and so on and so forth with their awesome, seemingly godlike abilities.

Unless Relic has us play the characters with all their abilities removed, I don't foresee them coming back. They're just too strong to start out with.

**Archonate**

Plus they'd have to decide on who actually became corrupted at the end of the campaign.
If we start with new characters, then they don't have that fish to fry.

**Orkfantic**

I just saw on the DOW website that in a interview the developers said that all the campaigns may not be taking place at the same time. So we could keep the marines as we have them and pick up the story were chaos rising left off.

**Melissia**

I hope not. We've had two full campaigns with these characters. Let's move on.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

ChrisWWII wrote:As far as I could tell, Toth was merely a misguided Inquisitor who suspected the wrong Blood Raven of heresy. He's also renown for being a bit of an idiot for not sensing Chaos on Tartarus despite AMPLE evidence to the contrary.

He new there was some Chaos he just didn't know to what degree, there was an Ork War going on that was a huge distraction as was planned by the Alpha Legion. He felt that Gabriel was corrupted do to the events that took place on Cyrenne.

**D.P. Gumby**

Grrr had enough o' them spehs mahreens...

**Melissia**

From the Retribution forums:

- ALL armies can field a "proper" army.

- 4 squads instead of 6 , if you dont want to field all 4, they can be replaced with standard units.

- Find and capture command posts to be able to field bigger units / more little units what ever you want. and how many you can build depends on your pop cap,

- you can decide to shelve a commander in favour of being able to have for example a seer council , basically double edged sword to what unit you decide to take with you.

-Autarch picture

"As you can tell , your decision about who to take often comes down t what abilities and kit you've unlocked for your heroes. The clever thing is that your not just upgrading the heroes themselves ; if there is one you dont like and never take , that would be a pretty boring process , so alot of their traits are double edged , they unlock an ability for themselves but also change or upgrade the squad his replaced with you if you bench him."

basically means you arent locking yourself into one set of units.

- more of an army building game
- resources are back
- Points / power and other stuff to further increase your population cap

- So you can choose to go off course on the mission to unlock more and better units or you can still use micromanagement well to win the day.

-upgrades at the end of mission , choice between elite army or eliter commanders etc

-Four races have four heroes each more than four alternatives to those heroes , and a whole army with seven different kinds of units each with two unique upgrades , so basically 40 units to play with.

-Tyranids have only one hero in the campaign , the swarm lord.

- tyranids have up to around 140 units , carnifex worth roughly 25 pop cap for SP

- The ork warboss has a "battlewagon" basically rams stuff , is it a new unit or a Truk modified idk.

- Missions are similar to Chaos rising in the fact they are carefully scripted but dont always end up like boss battles ! hurray !

-Alot of missions are unique to each race , with only a few being common to each campaign.

- Each races campaign might not be in the same time period , the guy just said " it would give away the plot too much".

- Tyraninds fight tyraninds ( disconnected from hivemind)

-Orkz fight Orkz (different clans)

-Eldar fight eldar (different craftworlds)

- somtimes you have to capture a headquarters before you can start building up more units.

- Crates are back but now contain resources as well as wargear.

- Mid mission upgrades were also mentioned , were they just for the ordinary units or commanders ? probably ordinary.

Dow2 was supposedly going to be shipped with multiple campaign races but due to lack of time it wasnt.

So retribution has bigger armies and more to field but they claim to hold on to the roleplaying still.

This is quoted from a PC Gamer article.

**Absolutionis**

Eldar fighting Eldar? I hope it actually makes sense and doesn't subscribe to the Gotoverse.

Also, does the Autarch's head look the same as the Warp Spider Exarch's head?

Either way, if Tyranids can actually field up to 140 units, then this standalone game is actually becoming more and more interesting to me. Perhaps it'll be more like DoW1.

**Melissia**

Well, 140 units being 140 gaunts/gants, not actually 140 squads of course.

If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "you'll be building a huge complex of buildings and watching grots tapping away at things", the answer is no, it won't. If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "you'll see lots of units of completely identical squad members marching and fighting in perfect formation with perfectly timed footsteps", the answer is no again. If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "a single squad of guardsmen with a commissar beats a squad of tacticals", the answer is also probably going to be no. If you mean "more like DoW1" in that cover doesn't matter and most maps don't even have it to begin with, then the answer is definitely going to be no. DoW1 was, and remains, a heavily flawed game.

**syanticraven**

Melissia wrote:Well, 140 units being 140 gaunts/gants, not actually 140 squads of course.

If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "you'll be building a huge complex of buildings and watching grots tapping away at things", the answer is no, it won't. If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "you'll see lots of units of completely identical squad members marching and fighting in perfect formation with perfectly timed footsteps", the answer is no again. If you mean "more like DoW1" as in "a single squad of guardsmen with a commissar beats a squad of tacticals", the answer is also probably going to be no. If you mean "more like DoW1" in that cover doesn't matter and most maps don't even have it to begin with, then the answer is definitely going to be no. DoW1 was, and remains, a heavily flawed game.

Every Diamond has its flaws.

**Melissia**

More like quartz crystal.

**JaxnFury**

Edited by Manchu. Personal attacks are against DakkaDakka rules.

**ChrisWWII**

Edit: Manchu edited the original post, so I see no need to keep a record.

But in all honesty, the one thing I did like about DoW1, that DoW2 just can't offer me is the scale. Were things a little weird in that the squads lined up in perfect rows to shoot at each other? Yeah, definitely. As was said, DoW1 was not perfect in any sense of the word. What it was, however, was a fun game that was great for getting people interested in the universe with just the sheer scale of things blowing up. It's the scale of DoW1, I want to return to, not the mechanics, and I'm sure that's what Absolutionis was going for too.

**MajorTom11**

I could deal with both ways to be honest. I miss the economics aspects and basebuilding, it's such an intrinsic part of the rts experience for me. (Currently enjoying SCII)

That being said, DOW2 was fun for me, but it felt to me too much like a normal rts, and what they took away wasnt outweighed by the additions in terms of stuff to do and manage. A little more control somehow, or a more dynamic system for combat in the DOW2 style would do it for me. Killteam type stuff as opposed to 4 squads that function as 4 individuals (except the revive mechanic). Would prefer 4 ultra badass characters with a more rubust combat engine for resolving fights, not to the point of taking direct control of their actions, but something a little deeper than stand beside this and shoot til he is dead or you are.

**Raxor**

Tyranids fighting Tyranids. What a yawner.

**Eumerin**

Absolutionis wrote:Eldar fighting Eldar? I hope it actually makes sense and doesn't subscribe to the Gotoverse.

Also, does the Autarch's head look the same as the Warp Spider Exarch's head?

The faces are somewhat similar. But the Autarch appears to add a hime-cut while iirc the Warp Spider Exarch didn't do anything with his hair.

Regarding cover - DoW1 had it. Things like craters would provide a defensive benefit to your troops, while being caught in water would actually increase the damage you'd take from enemy fire. DoW2 has a nice cover system except that...

- Every time I try to line up my guys with the cover, the little colored dots seem to end up on the wrong side of the terrain or don't connect to it at all.
- There are too many ways to easily destroy cover. The Space Marine Commander's charge ability comes to mind...
- Building use all too frequently amounts to piling all of your guys into a building, and then immediately piling them all back out again before the grenade timer counts down to 0.

**Pyriel-**

Because they've already progressed to level thirty, one of them becoming a full fledged captain. Their abilities were highly lethal and they basically just walked through any threats before them shy of a greater daemon. They killed two avatars, and commanded tanks in a massive assault, and so on and so forth with their awesome, seemingly godlike abilities.

lol
Sounds like ADB or Reynolds wrote the characters. I mean invulnerable gods anyone?

**Melissia**

It isn't so much the writing as simply building your characters to be more powerful through proper management of leveling up, like in any roleplaying game certain combinations can be quite broken.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eumerin wrote: - Every time I try to line up my guys with the cover, the little colored dots seem to end up on the wrong side of the terrain or don't connect to it at all.
- There are too many ways to easily destroy cover. The Space Marine Commander's charge ability comes to mind...
- Building use all too frequently amounts to piling all of your guys into a building, and then immediately piling them all back out again before the grenade timer counts down to 0.

1: Right click and hold, move the mouse in the direction you wnat the squad to face. An arrow will show up, and the dots will move to the appropriate facing. Alternatively, try clicking behind rather than on the terrain.

2: There's also ways to create cover. Would you rather the FC stop at every little piece of terrain that gets into him? Some places can have quite a bit of said terrain blocking his charge.

3: It can be, but in my experience putting Avitus in a building can quite easily keep most enemies away from it long enough for Thaddeus to jump in and get them to focus on him. If all else fails, Tarkus' taunt will keep them from grenading the building if he's not in it.

**Eumerin**

Melissia wrote:1: Right click and hold, move the mouse in the direction you wnat the squad to face. An arrow will show up, and the dots will move to the appropriate facing. Alternatively, try clicking behind rather than on the terrain.

Blame it on cludgy mouse skills if you want, but even knowing how it's supposed to work doesn't seem to solve the issues.

2: There's also ways to create cover. Would you rather the FC stop at every little piece of terrain that gets into him? Some places can have quite a bit of said terrain blocking his charge.

Have the FC hop over the terrain if you must. But having him "explode" multiple low-wall sections just because he kinda sorta happened to get close to it while charging is a bit silly. The jump troops are similar, with their ability to "explode" terrain that they land somewhat close to.

**Melissia**

Eumerin wrote:Blame it on cludgy mouse skills if you want, but even knowing how it's supposed to work doesn't seem to solve the issues.

... does for me. I've been playing this since the beta with no issues on the cover seeking mechanic.

**smithmyster666**

Ill say here what i said over at 40k online
my money is on the daemon hunters being the new race for these reasons
1- The =I= symbol cannot be simply misplaced and is clearly a giveaway, also the title of retribution meaning 'Punishment' which the Inq as a whole is fond of delivering.
2- Gabriel has ties with the Ordo Malleus through Inquisitor Toth, who kinda owes him one for saving his girly ass.
3- There is a greater daemon bound into aurelia, and word of the Blood Ravens chaotic heresies are probably on inquisitorial ears, meaning that the Grey Knights, Not Sisters or Deathwatch would be called in on the matter.

**Grundz**

smithmyster666 wrote:Ill say here what i said over at 40k online
my money is on the daemon hunters being the new race for these reasons
1- The =I= symbol cannot be simply misplaced and is clearly a giveaway, also the title of retribution meaning 'Punishment' which the Inq as a whole is fond of delivering.
2- Gabriel has ties with the Ordo Malleus through Inquisitor Toth, who kinda owes him one for saving his girly ass.
3- There is a greater daemon bound into aurelia, and word of the Blood Ravens chaotic heresies are probably on inquisitorial ears, meaning that the Grey Knights, Not Sisters or Deathwatch would be called in on the matter.

also, it would coincide with the possible release of codex: GK, which would actually be good marketing for GW, I expect the world to end in the coming months.

**syanticraven**

Offtopic.

If a GK codex ever comes out I will finally take up a SM army, they are just so cool. Unless the codex does them no justice
Also nice sig there Grundz, gotta ask - Why would a psychic ability be stopped by a few brambles or trees? I always wonder how you get cover saves from them.

**Grundz**

syanticraven wrote: Why would a psychic ability be stopped by a few brambles or trees? I always wonder how you get cover saves from them.

Because people thought that wounds caused by a non-shooting attack like the doom's ability would be reduced by cover.

you know, before GW faq's tryanids into suckitude XD