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I think it is mostly about the theoretical of the situation, not examples of it in history.

Well, here is one more option.

If you have a list which you feel is awesome, but is 1501, and you don't think you can adjust it one pip, create an additional list that is under 1500. Bring them both. Then, when you go to play with someone, before you even open the bag, explain that you have a great list you want to play, but it's over the point limit. Would you mind, for this game, allowing this list? Obviously, I'll give you a few minutes to allow you to take another 5 points of gear somewhere, too. If not, no problem - I've got another list we can play as a backup.

Remember, you're the one asking for special dispensation, so no getting butthurt if the opponent says no, or even being upset. Of course, the fastest, easiest, and most pragmatic way to handle this would be not to allow it to happen at all.

I give a leighway of 0.1% in games, so in 1000 points, it is 1 point and in 2000 it's two.

Though, I'd prefer it if they were under points.

in tournament it is unacceptable.

I don't think I would allow this, not even in a friendly game. And not just because I'm a jerk.

Every time I try to put together an army list, I always seem to end up having to leave out something that I really wanted because it puts me a few points over. Like I can afford a Land Speeder, but then can't afford to arm it with a multi melta. Then I have to rejiggle my whole list cause I have no use for a HB Land Speeder. I always seem to feel like I'm one unit short of a what I actually want.

If I then turned up to 1500 paint game, to find my opponent had 1501 points, then I think I would be quite annoyed. It's like inviting someone who you know is vegetarian to dinner, and then saying "I hope you don't mind lamb chops?"... What part of 'Don't eat meat' do you not understand? What part of 1500 OR LESS do you not understand?

The only time I would allow this is if it were someone putting together an army list on the spot... For example someone scaling thier 2000 point army down to quickly take part in 1500 point game. If it came up 1501 then I would say "Yup that's close enough, lets play!". But if you've actually gone away and sat down with your codex and put together a list for 1500 point game, then there is really no excuse for being over 1500. I would just have to assume the person was being deliberately obtuse.

I would insist that either my opponent drops some wargear, or we increase the agreed points value of the game to 1510 so that I can get that extra melta and hopefully leave them 9 points behind (which is what they deserve for going over).

@ the OP... If you know your Army is 1501 points then you should fix it.

My response would probably be "Sure. Come to think of it, my sorcerer could use a personal icon anyway."

I wish my friends could listen to you guys.

Every
Single
Game
CANIHAZMOREPOINTSTAHNYOUKTHNX!?

I just realized my friend has been 26 points over in every game we've played against each other in the last two months. sigh. Not that it has made a difference in game play much because he could cut two power weapons and that is that. Hardly game changing. But it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Deuce11 wrote:I just realized my friend has been 26 points over in every game we've played against each other in the last two months. sigh. Not that it has made a difference in game play much because he could cut two power weapons and that is that. Hardly game changing. But it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Was he aware that he was over points? If so, 26 is WAY more than is acceptable, even for the crowd that allows for extra points.

If he wasn't aware and this was just a math error, these things happen when totaling points by hand. I've found myself sometimes summing an army to the wrong total. But, I tend to always end up with extra points in my total, and not missing points.

Anyway, it's always a good idea to double-check your math, and, if you have the time, to double-check your opponents math.

I had problems with math too quite a bit. I remember my first few games was with a list that actually something like 1925 in 2000 point games. This is why I now write my lists on Excel! Saves me the trouble of having to worry about typing a number into a calculator wrong, or just plain failing with basic math.

I don't think there's anything new I can add to this debate....I'll throw my hat in the ring with the people who wouldn't allow it, outside extenuating circumstances. As has been pointed out many many times before, "If being one point over won't change the course of the game, then one point under shouldn't hurt you either, yah?" To me that logic is perfectly sound, and makes absolute sense alongside the many many other arguments presented by this side of the debate.

If I play people who pull this crap with me by going over points, I just say "ok" then grab some nice upgrades that I could use like dozer blades or extra armor.

I had a friend who I used to play with who would say "Ok, im ready. Im like 70 points over though, is that ok?" ARRRGGHHH

scubasteve04 wrote:If I play people who pull this crap with me by going over points, I just say "ok" then grab some nice upgrades that I could use like dozer blades or extra armor.

I had a friend who I used to play with who would say "Ok, im ready. Im like 70 points over though, is that ok?" ARRRGGHHH

Which works just fine for SPESS MEHREENS, but for those of us who play armies that don't have tons of little miniscule upgrades you can add (e.g. Necrons) or whose miniscule upgrades are largely useless (e.g. Tau, Orks) that strategy doesn't work so well.

"Add a meltabomb!" is a fine response if you're playing cheesefactories, but I can't just go and "add a meltabomb," since all comparable upgrades are entirely useless for my armies, or can't just be added to one model.

It doesnt have to be comparable to his overpoints though.

If your playing crons and a guy comes with 1503, add an extra warrior for 18 pts or whatever they are. You get an extra model, and you send the guy a message. Maybe he will learn to count and bring 1500 pts or less next time.

Oh and dont hate on marines lol

Funny!

"Mind if my list is 1 point over?"
"Umm, if I can add one model that sounds fine."
"Umm, that is a monolith!"
"It is just one model, why make an issue?"

kirsanth wrote:Funny!

"Mind if my list is 1 point over?"
"Umm, if I can add one model that sounds fine."
"Umm, that is a monolith!"
"It is just one model, why make an issue?"

Exactly. Teach people not to go over points. I would seriously do this in a game.

scubasteve04 wrote:It doesnt have to be comparable to his overpoints though.

If your playing crons and a guy comes with 1503, add an extra warrior for 18 pts or whatever they are. You get an extra model, and you send the guy a message. Maybe he will learn to count and bring 1500 pts or less next time.

Oh and dont hate on marines lol

What if I've got two units of 20 warriors, and therefore cannot add any more?

What then?

add a light destroyer, or an upgrade to one of your lords.

scubasteve04 wrote:add a light destroyer, or an upgrade to one of your lords.

What if his lords are already at the 100 point limit?

Seriously, it's not hard to make a 1500 list instead of a 1501.

scubasteve04 wrote:add a light destroyer, or an upgrade to one of your lords.

Right. Sure. I bring extra Destroyer models to every game because I expect my opponent to be over his limit by 50 points.

And like Gwar! said, what if my Lord already has 100 points of wargear and a warscythe?

It's a 1500 point game. Bring 1500 points. Don't be a jackass and expect me to compensate for your inability to follow the rules/do basic first-grade arithmetic/observe common courtesy.

SaintHazard wrote:
And like Gwar! said, what if my Lord already has 100 points of wargear and a warscythe?

It's a 1500 point game. Bring 1500 points. Don't be a jackass and expect me to compensate for your inability to follow the rules/do basic first-grade arithmetic/observe common courtesy.

I agree with the hard limit on points. But, if your opponent won't meet that, I'd suggest giving the Lord an extra upgrade and allowing for more than 100pts for him upgrades. After all, if 1502 pts for an army isn't a big deal, 105 pts for Lord upgrades isn't a big deal.

But, this is just evolving into a "If my opponent breaks the rules, how many rules can I break?" discussion. Which is best addressed with "Neither player should break any rules!"

We always play 5 points over max. No matter what the size game, however any five piont or under piece of wargear must be discarded if so.

SaintHazard wrote:Which works just fine for SPESS MEHREENS, but for those of us who play armies that don't have tons of little miniscule upgrades you can add (e.g. Necrons) or whose miniscule upgrades are largely useless (e.g. Tau, Orks) that strategy doesn't work so well.

It's not really good for marines - by the time I've made my list to 1500 points, I've probably gotten everything that I think will be useful around that point value. Tacking melta bombs onto a squad that already has a powerfist or doesn't plan to melee isn't really going to do much for me. 25 points is easily enough to make a major shift in the army, I might now be afford enough speeders to be worthwhile if I ditch this unit I brought because I don't bother with one speeder, but I don't have the speeder models with me because they didn't fit into my earlier list.

I think you should follow kirsanth's suggestion, the 'just 1 more model' idea is a good one.

SaintHazard wrote:

Right. Sure. I bring extra Destroyer models to every game because I expect my opponent to be over his limit by 50 points.

And like Gwar! said, what if my Lord already has 100 points of wargear and a warscythe?

It's a 1500 point game. Bring 1500 points. Don't be a jackass and expect me to compensate for your inability to follow the rules/do basic first-grade arithmetic/observe common courtesy.

Thats not my point. I absolutly hate when people bring lists over points.

I am just saying if you you are running a rigid list like necrons with under or even points, then its insulting if a BA player comes over points. Therefore the BA player should not say anything when the cron player adds a single model or upgrade to go over 1500 by 18-50points. People like that need to learn to craft lists to the proper points limits.

And if its impossible to add something useful, just tell the opposing player to remove an upgrade or model even if it brings them below points. Rules are rules

phantommaster wrote:We always play 5 points over max. No matter what the size game, however any five piont or under piece of wargear must be discarded if so.

So why not just say you play XXX5 point games and be honest?

phantommaster wrote:We always play 5 points over max. No matter what the size game, however any five piont or under piece of wargear must be discarded if so.

And what if someone is 6 points over? are you gonna kick up a fuss over 1 more point? If you are going to draw the line at +5 why not just draw it at +0?

If I played you guys I would always go the full 5 points over whenever possible, because I know that everyone else might do the same.

SmackCakes wrote:

phantommaster wrote:We always play 5 points over max. No matter what the size game, however any five piont or under piece of wargear must be discarded if so.

And what if someone is 6 points over? are you gonna kick up a fuss over 1 more point? If you are going to draw the line at +5 why not just draw it at +0?

If I played you guys I would always go the full 5 points over whenever possible, because I know that everyone else might do the same.

Yep we would kick up a fuss over one point, our GW guy does this for local tournaments and it's stuck ever since, never really thought why.

Follow the rules...doesn't matter what kind of game it is.
There is no mystery of what the rules say: At or Less.

It's real simple; it involves Zero Issues.

When rules are not followed, both sides are made out to look like jerks depending on point of views, but following the rules bypasses all the drama.

Sanctjud wrote:Follow the rules...doesn't matter what kind of game it is.
There is no mystery of what the rules say: At or Less.

It's real simple; it involves Zero Issues.

When rules are not followed, both sides are made out to look like jerks depending on point of views, but following the rules bypasses all the drama.

Amen

In the good old days you could simply give the opponent a free VP to balance.

1 point in 1,500, or 3 in 2,000 is hardly a major advantage.

Of course the game is played to a set limit, so if the opponent says you can't have your extra point, you are kind of stuck.

I'm surprised a TO allowed an entrant to get away with the extra points. Perhaps he beat all his opponents by such a wide margin that it was clear the three points weren't of any significance.

Kilkrazy wrote:1 point in 1,500, or 3 in 2,000 is hardly a major advantage.

Again, this assertion is based on a false assumption.

The false assumption is that that single point stands alone, or represents a miniscule upgrade, but consider this:

Which generally a more competitive unit, a Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla and Big Shoota at 115 points, or a Deff Dread with extra DCCW, Big Shoota, and Armour Plates, at 105 points? Most Ork players who run mech lists will take the BW over the Dread, but it costs an extra 10 points. Say you're going up against a mech IG army, and the Ork player wants to take the BW, but it'd put him 1 point over. That one single point is the difference between a competitive unit against mech IG armies and a mediocre one. That one point is, effectively, a major advantage.

There are numerous examples of how a single point can be the difference between taking that competitive unit you want to take and being forced to take something a little less potent.

Kilkrazy wrote:In the good old days you could simply give the opponent a free VP to balance.

1 point in 1,500, or 3 in 2,000 is hardly a major advantage.

Yeah...I'm thinking VP would probably be an overall better system than KP, just because of the sheer number of ways to mess with killpoints.

But as has been said a lot in this thread: 1 point over doesn't help you significantly, right? So 1 point UNDER shouldn't hurt you significantly either, right? That and Hazard's lovely dissertation above.