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Ok just a question on how you guys see this .

I have a 1500 points BA list but its actualy 1501 pts

So the question is allow me to play or say sorry thats too many points?#

Thanks

Is 1501>1500? If the limit is 1500 then anything more is unacceptable.

Anything over 1500 is not 1500. The limit is there for a reason.

Gwar! wrote:Anything over 1500 is not 1500. The limit is there for a reason.

Tell that to the Nova Open judges who let a kid with a 2003 pt list for a 2000 tournament keep his ticket to Vegas =/

In tournaments normally over points == DQ'd or told to resubmit.

In friendly games check with opponents - most wouldnt have a huge issue with it.

Shouldn't have happened, but a tournament is, of course, at the judges discretion so they could have just as easily revoked the ticket...

A limit is a limit, for tourny or friendly games.

Drop some wargear, change a unit, or suggest playing at a higher limit. Anything else is just trying to take advantage of people who you think might let you get away with it.

Hint: Your opponent who is at the limit already made this choice.

The easy way to handle this if you have a hard time thinking of an exact limit is to treat the limit as different for yourself. For a 1500 game, design your army as though it's a 1475 game with up to 25 'over points' allowed.

I hope I am not beating a dead horse but yes a Limit is a Limit.

In friendly games I usually allow a tiny bit of leeway. What chaps my a$$ is when the points that go over the limit are there because of an upgrade in wargear. That is a no-no and is taking advantage of an opponent who is a sport.

Most armies have a vehicle for balancing those out.
For MEQ, drop a special weapon or a melta bomb.
For Orks, leave off a grot oiler or ammo runt.
For eldar, cut a cheap aspect power.
For Tau, a low-cost vehicle mod, or a drone.

Bottom line: 1,500 points is 1,500 points. 1,501 points isn't.

my FLGS has a 1-4point leeway but if you win that game it is only a lesser victory cus your over pointed, you get bonus points if your under pointed though :3

as for my beating of a long dead horse that is starting to smell...

>1501 = not 1500
<1500 = yes 1500

even if it means giving up a valuable flamer or meltabomb. rules are the rules man,

I agree, 1500 means 1500, I have a friend in my local group who constantly tries to pull that 1501-4 bull crap and he constantly has to be told no.

If you have a 1501 point army, is it a 1500 point army?

The answer to my question is the answer to your question.

cl4nj4def4lcon wrote:I agree, 1500 means 1500, I have a friend in my local group who constantly tries to pull that 1501-4 bull crap and he constantly has to be told no.

The one exception that I make to that is for people with 100% WYSIWYG armies since it's much harder to tweak those last few points.

So then, you allow people to bring in an extra meltagun or plasma cannon? I applaud your intention but the result could be disasterous.

In tournies its normally as many points as you want up to 1500, but not 1 point over.
In friendly games I normally cut my opponents a little slack if its going to save them having to re write a whole list, I'd rather than be paying than waiting for them to cut out 1-2 points.

Ask your opponent to play a 1501 point game?

I highly doubt that the one point is actually going to make a large enough difference to really warrant any sort of consideration. If you really think that that 1 point made a huge difference in you getting tabled, then your just a sore loser who needs to get the stick out their butt.

People are saying that 1501 =/= 1500. Neither does 1499. So, unless they build a list that is exactly 1500 points then by their own standards they wouldn't want to play a list with 1499 points. Unless of course they were just trying to take advantage of said player .

I mean, if you'd really prefer for your opponent to rewrite their list to try to dump that one point instead of just playing them then that's your decision, although I'd prefer to just play the game.

In a game like Warmachine where that one point could actually buy another solo or upgrade a 'jack tremendously then it actually could be a little bit of an issue. That's mostly because points range usually from 15-50 for games instead of 500-2000.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:I highly doubt that the one point is actually going to make a large enough difference to really warrant any sort of consideration. If you really think that that 1 point made a huge difference in you getting tabled, then your just a sore loser who needs to get the stick out their butt.

Well, that depends. Was that one point spent on a targeter, or was that one point spillover from abusing MSU? If it was the difference between having 6 5-man squads, and having to suck it up and only have 5 7-man squads, then I think it made an absolute difference.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:People are saying that 1501 =/= 1500. Neither does 1499.

BZZZZZ! Wrong!

Page 86, main Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, under the heading "Agree Points Limit & Choose Forces", Paragraph 4:

The first thing players need to do when arranging a game is to decide what points limit they are going to use. For example, they may agree to play a 1,000 points game, in which case the total value of all models in each player force must come to 1,000 points or less (it will often be a few points short, but it still counts as a 1,000 points game).

Bold, large and Red for Emphasis.

Gwar! wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:People are saying that 1501 =/= 1500. Neither does 1499.

BZZZZZ! Wrong!

Page 86, main Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, under the heading "Agree Points Limit & Choose Forces", Paragraph 4:

The first thing players need to do when arranging a game is to decide what points limit they are going to use. For example, they may agree to play a 1,000 points game, in which case the total value of all models in each player force must come to 1,000 points or less (it will often be a few points short, but it still counts as a 1,000 points game).

Bold, large and Red for Emphasis.

Oh no no no, in terms of the game you're correct. But in fact, the only number that equals 1500 is 1500. And what people have been saying basically is that if it isn't exactly 1500 it's not 1500. (of course not in those words exactly, but that's what they're saying means.)

@Daeddalus: I agree if they bought a 1 point piece of wargear than go ahead and drop it, but other than that I really wouldn't have a problem with it. And I think that most people wouldn't have a problem with it.

I would. And for one simple reason: I labor obsessively when creating army lists to bring the total within 10 points of the point limit but never over. Quite simply put, I expect the same effort from others. I don't think that's unfair?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:So then, you allow people to bring in an extra meltagun or plasma cannon? I applaud your intention but the result could be disasterous.

I would prefer that someone had that small measure of advantage than that they had proxy models.

SaintHazard wrote:I would. And for one simple reason: I labor obsessively when creating army lists to bring the total within 10 points of the point limit but never over. Quite simply put, I expect the same effort from others. I don't think that's unfair?

I don't know, I'm no mind reader.

However, I do think it's a bit strange to expect everyone else to obsess over not being 1 point over just because you do. But again, if you'd prefer to sit around and wait for your opponent to write their new list rather than go ahead and play the game then that's you. I just think that most people would choose the second option.

If it's a friendly game, it probably won't be a problem but in a tournament, you'd either be disqualified or lose points. You may just be told to make a new army list.

If you allow one point, then why not allow 2, or 3, or 500?

The fact is, the rules say you MUST be at the limit or less. Rules are rules. If you don't follow them deliberately, that is called cheating.

Gwar! wrote:If you allow one point, then why not allow 2, or 3, or 500?

The fact is, the rules say you MUST be at the limit or less. Rules are rules. If you don't follow them deliberately, that is called cheating.

To answer your question, because having 500 extra points can actually have a huge impact on the game. Whereas 1 point does not. The choices of just playing the game vs being a stickler and making them write up a new list is an easy choice for both of us. Our choices are just different.

It's not cheating if I allow them to do it. The rulebook even says that it's just a guideline and doesn't have to be followed if both players are okay with it.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:I do think it's a bit strange to expect everyone else to obsess over not being 1 point over just because you do. But again, if you'd prefer to sit around and wait for your opponent to write their new list rather than go ahead and play the game then that's you. I just think that most people would choose the second option.

I have my lists built weeks in advance. I build lists for fun, when I'm bored at work. It annoys the living crap out of me when people show up, models and codex in hand, and then take half an hour to build their damn list when they could've done it the night before. Especially when I texted them the previous afternoon with something like, "12:00 tomorrow? Bringing 2000 of Tau."

It's like, come on dude. You knew the point limit. You knew when and where we were playing. You even know what army I'm playing. Could you not have put together a 2000 point list last night? This morning? Any time other than five minutes before I plan on actually playing?

Yeah, I tend to play very relaxed games. My local playgroup doesn't play top-tier choices, we often times do things that aren't strictly RAW, and we can take back attacks or other declarations if there was a rule we weren't aware of (shooting at Tau Stealth Suits requiring a roll, for example).

However, even we play that you can't go over point costs. The problem is that if you come in at 1501, then I'll want to take an extra upgrade putting me at 1504, then you come back and go to 1508, and so forth.

Point limit is a point limit. Rework your army and come in under.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:To answer your question, because having 500 extra points can actually have a huge impact on the game. Whereas 1 point does not.

Incorrect.

1 Point can mean you have a single Targetter in your army instead of none, which means you can essentially pre-measure all your shooting.
1 Point can mean the difference between having Mephiston in the army and not.

1 Point can make a massive difference, and that is why the rules tell you to have the limit or less.