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Codex Grey Knights felt softer than the Andrex i usually use.

codex grey knights will be win.

ChrisWWII wrote:Exactly, Cain is an extraordinarily badass human, and Draigo is an extraordinarily badass Marine. The difference being one has good, weel written fluff, and the other is fanfiction.

I think since Mortarion was a daemon prince, killing him would only banish him back to the Warp. The others would probably laugh their asses off about why Mortarion was so weak he got beaten, but yeah.

Wait...Cain had good fluff? seriously? Cain is among the biggest mary sue characters in the fluff. I still think some of Draigo's fluff is OTT but in general a Grandmaster of the Grey Knights should be better than everything in the imperium; barring primarches and the emperor. They are the best of the best for a reason; and a Grandmaster is the highest rank of that. They are not just normal marines + psychic powers.

You still hit it on the head. Primarch > Grey Knight Grandmaster. Grey Knight Grandmaster SHOULD NOT CURBSTOMB A DAEMON PRIMARCH.

Cain may be a bit of a Mary Sue, but at least his abilities stayed reasonable. He didn't outduel Kharn or anything like that.

So what power level is a Grey Knight grandmaster, when its fact that they are very much above and beyond any non-GK marine in existance?

I agree, he shouldn't curbstomp a Daemon Primarch. He should, at least, be able to defeat it barely or get it close to defeat. Otherwise the role of Grey Knight Grandmaster is left to look nothing more than an ordinary space marine grandmaster. (which is inferior)

But if that is still too much, then it would be for him to completely and utterly destroy a Chaos Daemon/Chaos Space Marine renegade army (full-on invasion one) all by himself. Its no Primarch...but at least gets across some of the idea that this guy is the most experienced you can be at fighting Chaos. (Unless of course SMs have done this before; which would require him to defeat more to fit fluff)

A Grey Knight Grand Master is slightly better than the average Chapter Master. He is a badass. No one is denying it...but he shouldn't be able to come close to beating a Primarch. A Primarch is to a Marine as a Marine is to a Guardsman. He shouldn't be this good. He really shouldn't.

By the way, is it just me or does Matt Ward have a thing for having his characters hold something single handedly against ridiculous numbers? Marneus Calgar held out against an Ork army, and Draigo held out against a daemon army (while letting an IG regiment escape)!

The point is, Draigo should not have been able to win against a Primarch. He really shouldn't have been. Draigo just has a OTT version of Big Papa Smurf's already OTT fluff.

Its more cause of 40K itself.

How exactly, do you show someone like Draigo is a badass...without doing things on the level of IG or SMs.? Also I wouldn't say 'slightly' better than an SM Grandmaster.

Ok, maybe he shouldn't win against a Primarch. But we both know he must be shown to do bigger, better things than any individual general/commissar of the IG or an SM Grandmaster. So what should he do instead to show his elite badassness?

Mr Hyena wrote:Its more cause of 40K itself.

How exactly, do you show someone like Draigo is a badass...without doing things on the level of IG or SMs.? Also I wouldn't say 'slightly' better than an SM Grandmaster.

Ok, maybe he shouldn't win against a Primarch. But we both know he must be shown to do bigger, better things than any individual general/commissar of the IG or an SM Grandmaster. So what should he do instead to show his elite badassness?

Something that doesn't turn something even bigger, better and more badass into a little.... "kitty"?

crazyK wrote:Codex: Grey Knights will die during a fight with the Balrog, but return later as Codex: White Knights

i loled

Codex Grey Knights doesn't include a Primarch as special character. Primarchs were considered too weak

In the Far Future of Space Marine, there is only Codex: Grey Knights.

Codex: Grey Knights is only an illusion of a book, its real a huge paint gun which turn all SM in the world grey

shealyr wrote:
The sword cannot be destroyed by any means. Smashing, melding, psychic blasting, plasma, vaporizing, all are useless.

So what do you do with it?

You encase it in lead, then plascrete, and leave it in the chapter armory under Grey Knight (or blanks made into servitors) guard? Rather than carrying it into battle where, if you fall, Farseer Daisyfarts will become a world-shattering demon princess?

EDIT: Heh, hello page 6!

Doctor Optimal wrote:

shealyr wrote:
The sword cannot be destroyed by any means. Smashing, melding, psychic blasting, plasma, vaporizing, all are useless.

So what do you do with it?

You encase it in lead, then plascrete, and leave it in the chapter armory under Grey Knight (or blanks made into servitors) guard? Rather than carrying it into battle where, if you fall, Farseer Daisyfarts will become a world-shattering demon princess?

EDIT: Heh, hello page 6!

You roll down a window of your battle barge and drop it into the warp on your next trip through the Empyrean?

VoidAngel wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote:

shealyr wrote:
The sword cannot be destroyed by any means. Smashing, melding, psychic blasting, plasma, vaporizing, all are useless.

So what do you do with it?

You encase it in lead, then plascrete, and leave it in the chapter armory under Grey Knight (or blanks made into servitors) guard? Rather than carrying it into battle where, if you fall, Farseer Daisyfarts will become a world-shattering demon princess?

EDIT: Heh, hello page 6!

You roll down a window of your battle barge and drop it into the warp on your next trip through the Empyrean?

That seems a good way to give it back to Chaos.

I'm just saying, if you want to keep Object X from Chaos, and your job is fighting Chaos, taking Object X along with you to the battlefield everyday seems sort of silly, IMO.

What, like Chaos has a power limitation? Like having some of it tied up in a sword is meaningful?

Drop it in a sun. Most things will have a hard time getting it back.

VoidAngel wrote:What, like Chaos has a power limitation? Like having some of it tied up in a sword is meaningful?

Drop it in a sun. Most things will have a hard time getting it back.

I'm not a Chaos (or =I=) player so I'm not sure, and for all I know this comes from some half-remembered D&D thing, but doesn't a demonsword act in the same way a demonhost does, as a physical object the demon represents into the real world through?

Usually. So let it represent itself...in the middle of a sun.

"So...15,000,000 degree ball of ionized gas...wanna experience the awesome magnificence of Khorne today? C'mon, you're all firey and stuff! It'll make ya feel good...."

VoidAngel wrote:What, like Chaos has a power limitation? Like having some of it tied up in a sword is meaningful?

Drop it in a sun. Most things will have a hard time getting it back.

just find your nearest black hole and shoot it out a railgun into said black hole, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get out, even daemons would say WTF?

Thought of that, but "black hole" in the 40k universe translates to "express tunnel to the Warp". See, "Eye of Chaos".

VoidAngel wrote:Thought of that, but "black hole" in the 40k universe translates to "express tunnel to the Warp". See, "Eye of Chaos".

Anti-matter

Ought to do the trick (assuming that the sword is made of matter - which I would not) - but you wouldn't want to be in the same star system.

Also, don't think I've ever seen anti-matter mentioned in 40k fluff.

AlexHolker wrote:Codex: Grey Knights was written by Matt Ward.

Codex: Grey Knights has a Grey Knight hero wielding a daemon sword.

Codex: Grey Knights stole the Canoness's Ascension power.

Codex: Grey Knights has only two FA choices, one of which is just a Troops choice with a teleporter.

Your post reads like poetry.

The deep examination of the Sword of Antwyr fluff is making me chuckle.

Seriously, applying common sense to anything in the 41st millennium is, in and of itself, lacking common sense. It's science FICTION for a reason.

As as for Draigo, it did say that Mortarion just finished wtfpwning Draigo's predecessor, so it's more than likely the Daemon Primarch was more than a little bit weakened.

shealyr wrote:The deep examination of the Sword of Antwyr fluff is making me chuckle.

Seriously, applying common sense to anything in the 41st millennium is, in and of itself, lacking common sense. It's science FICTION for a reason.

This is the same universe where human lives are worth less than rechargable battery packs

shealyr wrote:The deep examination of the Sword of Antwyr fluff is making me chuckle.

Seriously, applying common sense to anything in the 41st millennium is, in and of itself, lacking common sense. It's science FICTION for a reason.

As as for Draigo, it did say that Mortarion just finished wtfpwning Draigo's predecessor, so it's more than likely the Daemon Primarch was more than a little bit weakened.

Wise words.

People: get used to this kind of fluff. Its only gonna get more like this. As long as Special Characters continue to be an important part of the game.

Primarch > Grand Master > Chapter Master.

Grand Master > Daemon

Daemon Primarch = Grand Master (They are made to kill daemons)

Daemon Primach + Roflstomped dead grand master = Weakened Daemon primarch

Weakened Daemon Primach < Grand Master.

You have to remember Grey Knights allegedly descended from the emperor, and at a later date than the other chapters. They are DESIGNED to kill daemons, and grand masters are the epitome of that, the pinnacle of daemonhunting. It isnt that hard to believe Draigo killed Mortarion considering the circumstances.

^ Except he wasn't a Grand Master at that point really. By that logic every Space Marine has two Chapter masters (hence why you can take two in FOS).

The Grey Knights Codex raped my horse and rode off on my grandmother.

Also, I'll have to fight them without the Demons the old Demonhunter codex had. Sure, they were arse, but it was a fun modeling job.

But, after all, it makes total sense that the smallest and most elite chapter of the smallest and most elite army in the fething galaxy is dispatched to deal with an Orkish pirate, right?

I reckon it was irresponsible on Matt Ward’s behalf to use a daemon primarch in his fluff just to show how awesome his special character is. Primarchs belong to the category of “do not mess with this” fluff along side the emperor and anything heresy affiliated. The last time a daemon primarch was used in fluff, it took a big squad of Grey Knights to banish Angron and most of them died and Matt Ward reckons 2 blokes can tag team Mortarion… Don’t get me started on Draigo’s other terrible fluff of “being able to survive in the realm of chaos without getting raped by Greater Daemons for all eternity” and “being deemed unvanquishable by the chaos gods”.

I think if this terrible fluff keeps pace, soon we’re going to get some sort of absurd story where a random battle brother breaks Angron’s back over his knee or Marinus Calgar falcon punching Khorne.