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Jaon wrote:
You have to remember Grey Knights allegedly descended from the emperor, and at a later date than the other chapters. They are DESIGNED to kill daemons, and grand masters are the epitome of that, the pinnacle of daemonhunting. It isnt that hard to believe Draigo killed Mortarion considering the circumstances.

I dunno dude. Like what candy.man said, it took 100 GK Terminators to banish Angron, how can just 2 of them, even if they are the best and next best, duplicate that feat. But honestly what really gets me is the carving of his name on Mortarion's heart. WTH. I seriously am at a loss for words, I don't know how to properly express how incredibly lousy and stupid that piece of fluff is, Matt Ward what the hell is wrong with you.

Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

That he fought with Mortarion for an extended period? That he banished a band of Greater Daemons into the warp? Something other than carving his fething name into the heart of a DAEMON PRIMARCH. Draigo is not a primarch, hell, most normal primarchs have been unsuccessful at fighting daemon primarchs, how the hell is Draigo going to take on the lord of pestilence by himself? It would even make more sense if he just brought a few dozen chapter masters with him. That would be fine.

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

Not everything has to be about blood and battle and how many dudes you've killed. How about something that highlights the GK's incredible mental fortitude and incorruptibility? The fact that no GK has ever fallen to Chaos. For example, the 4 Chaos Gods make a bet, who can be the first to corrupt a GK. And not just any GK, but the Grandmaster. To drive the point home that no one, NO ONE is above the lure of Chaos, and if the Chaos Gods put effort into it, a man WILL fall to their dark temptations. So you can have a nice piece of fluff about how each God tried and failed to tempt Draigo, but how he rebuffed each in turn, even when they came to him at his most vulnerable, when any lesser man would've caved in. Like Khaine offering him the strength of arms to stop some massive tragedy, or Tzeentch offering the secret to restoring the Emperor. And so in the end the Chaos Gods have to concede defeat, that they were unable to tempt Draigo into damnation. And within each of their dark hearts, a new fear; that sometimes, once in a very very rare while, despite all their efforts and all their power, the human spirit shines incorruptible.

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

HIs initial story of banishing a DP twice would have sufficed. That's pretty baller.

Everything after that really is the problem.

rabidaskal wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

Not everything has to be about blood and battle and how many dudes you've killed. How about something that highlights the GK's incredible mental fortitude and incorruptibility? The fact that no GK has ever fallen to Chaos. For example, the 4 Chaos Gods make a bet, who can be the first to corrupt a GK. And not just any GK, but the Grandmaster. To drive the point home that no one, NO ONE is above the lure of Chaos, and if the Chaos Gods put effort into it, a man WILL fall to their dark temptations. So you can have a nice piece of fluff about how each God tried and failed to tempt Draigo, but how he rebuffed each in turn, even when they came to him at his most vulnerable, when any lesser man would've caved in. Like Khaine offering him the strength of arms to stop some massive tragedy, or Tzeentch offering the secret to restoring the Emperor. And so in the end the Chaos Gods have to concede defeat, that they were unable to tempt Draigo into damnation. And within each of their dark hearts, a new fear; that sometimes, once in a very very rare while, despite all their efforts and all their power, the human spirit shines incorruptible.

See, that could work...but would need to be exaggerated a bit more to fit into 40k. But its not really combat-y and thats what the GKs are all about. We know they are incorruptible. We want to hear about very unusual individuals who can take that and crank it up a few 100 levels.

HIs initial story of banishing a DP twice would have sufficed.

]

Has any other marines banished a DP twice? I'm not 100% sure; but as long as its something completely extraordinary/next to impossible then sure.

That he fought with Mortarion for an extended period? That he banished a band of Greater Daemons into the warp?

The Mortarion fight, your right, could be good fluff for Draigo but would very much depend on how it was written. Fleeing from a fight is cowardice and looks very poor on a character. So...how would they manage to write it in a way that the DP wins, Draigo lives (after presumeably escaping).

We could have Mortarion be the one that flees...but I suspect people wouldn't like that either.

The greater daemon thing is meh; we've had greater daemons banished many times before.

Codex: Grey Knights was STARTED by Matt Ward, and re-written by someone else. I blame Alan Smithee.

Matt Ward had words with the GW PTB about it and allegedly refused to even take part in a battle report featuring his "butchered" codex.

Codex: Grey Knights might finally make those annoying daemons players go the feth away.

Codex: Grey Knights will make the CSM players stop whining and start playing them instead.

Codex: Grey Knights will even make BA players change to GK. Because their dreads are even betterer.

Codex Grey Knights caused the recession, elected Obama, and gave your cat leukemia.

As inspiration for the Draigo background, Mat Ward read a Goto novel and looked at his old He-Man collection.

Codex Grey Knights has an age restriction of 14 years ... max!

rabidaskal wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

Not everything has to be about blood and battle and how many dudes you've killed. How about something that highlights the GK's incredible mental fortitude and incorruptibility? The fact that no GK has ever fallen to Chaos. For example, the 4 Chaos Gods make a bet, who can be the first to corrupt a GK. And not just any GK, but the Grandmaster. To drive the point home that no one, NO ONE is above the lure of Chaos, and if the Chaos Gods put effort into it, a man WILL fall to their dark temptations. So you can have a nice piece of fluff about how each God tried and failed to tempt Draigo, but how he rebuffed each in turn, even when they came to him at his most vulnerable, when any lesser man would've caved in. Like Khaine offering him the strength of arms to stop some massive tragedy, or Tzeentch offering the secret to restoring the Emperor. And so in the end the Chaos Gods have to concede defeat, that they were unable to tempt Draigo into damnation. And within each of their dark hearts, a new fear; that sometimes, once in a very very rare while, despite all their efforts and all their power, the human spirit shines incorruptible.

^A million times yes.

Eh? I will play GK even if they suck, their model look cool enough

rabidaskal wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

Not everything has to be about blood and battle and how many dudes you've killed. How about something that highlights the GK's incredible mental fortitude and incorruptibility? The fact that no GK has ever fallen to Chaos. For example, the 4 Chaos Gods make a bet, who can be the first to corrupt a GK. And not just any GK, but the Grandmaster. To drive the point home that no one, NO ONE is above the lure of Chaos, and if the Chaos Gods put effort into it, a man WILL fall to their dark temptations. So you can have a nice piece of fluff about how each God tried and failed to tempt Draigo, but how he rebuffed each in turn, even when they came to him at his most vulnerable, when any lesser man would've caved in. Like Khaine offering him the strength of arms to stop some massive tragedy, or Tzeentch offering the secret to restoring the Emperor. And so in the end the Chaos Gods have to concede defeat, that they were unable to tempt Draigo into damnation. And within each of their dark hearts, a new fear; that sometimes, once in a very very rare while, despite all their efforts and all their power, the human spirit shines incorruptible.

Very nice. Though I assume this is during the time while he is trapped in the warp? As the wards and protection around Titan would make the approach of one of the 4 pretty much impossible.

Codex Grey Knights was written by Andy Chambers, and dropped off along with his letter of resignation with a cryptic instruction- do not open until xmas 2010.

It is his cruel revenge on the company and game he once loved.

I actually miss Andy Chambers. A lot.

Jaon wrote:Primarch > Grand Master > Chapter Master.

Grand Master > Daemon

Daemon Primarch = Grand Master (They are made to kill daemons)

Daemon Primach + Roflstomped dead grand master = Weakened Daemon primarch

Weakened Daemon Primach < Grand Master.

You have to remember Grey Knights allegedly descended from the emperor, and at a later date than the other chapters. They are DESIGNED to kill daemons, and grand masters are the epitome of that, the pinnacle of daemonhunting. It isnt that hard to believe Draigo killed Mortarion considering the circumstances.

I thought the sensei descended from the emperor, and were hunted by the grey knights.. because they are like redbulls for the emperor and hes tired of just water.

Yeah; they do; their purpose and all is to be sacrificed to bring forth The Numen. Supposedly.

But that could be Eldar lies.

Honestly, in the context of a Demon Primarch, I took the "Carved his predecessor's name into his heart" to mean he scored a telling, wounding (possibly banishing) blow on Mortarion with his demon slaying weapon that earned the Demon Primarch's hatred. Like others have said, Mortarion was fighting against essentially two Grey Knight Grandmasters, slayed one and then was terribly wounded by the other, who was obviously motivated by his mentors fall. It certainly seems to me as something to not get overly offended by, especially since this is 40k and especially MW who does write over the top fluff. Draigo's is pretty bad, but it's really not a huge deal.

Necronomicon and The King in Yellow were based on Codex Grey Knights.

rabidaskal wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Well, what would be better fluff for Lord Draigo to show how he is better than any other Grey Knight? (and thus better than any marine, IG or Inquisitor)

Not everything has to be about blood and battle and how many dudes you've killed.

Yes yes and yes.. You don't need to have 100k marks on your axe, burn 3 worlds and fist Avatar to be a great leader / hero / warrior. I may be wrong about the last one tho..
This one is a great leader and a beacon of hope to humanity. His wisdom and purity are legendary. And...? The other one swings a big axe and punches people in the face. So what he beats his wife and every battle his man are slaughtered. He punches people in the face.

Grey Knights has pissed on my favourite army and, if it's like this in the final release I'm going to stop playing them.

candy.man wrote:I think if this terrible fluff keeps pace, soon we’re going to get some sort of absurd story where a random battle brother breaks Angron’s back over his knee or Marinus Calgar falcon punching Khorne.

If it gets to that point, where not even a primarch is "falcon punching" a God, I am selling all of my models back to GW, through the use of robbery and leaving the models where the money used to be, if necessary.

I get Space Marines being the biggest badest motha's in the yard, but they should really keep this in check...

Next we will have Kharn killing Cadia by himself.....

The Grey Knights are the only thing Kharne couldn't betray.

This one is a great leader and a beacon of hope to humanity. His wisdom and purity are legendary.

Problem is; that is the ultimate generic statement for any hero. How does it distinguish Draigo from any other big human legend?

This codex, including the background for Draigo, is completely acceptable and appropriate to 40k.

"Necronomicon and The King in Yellow were based on Codex Grey Knights. "

+100 Intarwebs for you.

Magister187 wrote:Honestly, in the context of a Demon Primarch, I took the "Carved his predecessor's name into his heart" to mean he scored a telling, wounding (possibly banishing) blow on Mortarion with his demon slaying weapon that earned the Demon Primarch's hatred.

And you would be wrong. The sentence states that he takes the act of carving as an insult, which is just stupid if it was metaphorical: he'd be taking offense at the fact he took offense.

AlexHolker wrote:
And you would be wrong. The sentence states that he takes the act of carving as an insult, which is just stupid if it was metaphorical

Hold on. So my interpretation is wrong because it would be stupid? This IS Matt Ward you know...

AlexHolker wrote:he'd be taking offense at the fact he took offense.

wat?

It's wouldn't be his predecessor's name if it was metaphorical, would it?

Big deal, Grey Knights have been killing daemon primarchs for literally as long as there has been Grey Knight fluff (1st battle of Armageddon).

Also, 40k is over the top.

That's the point.

DarknessEternal wrote:Big deal, Grey Knights have been killing daemon primarchs for literally as long as there has been Grey Knight fluff (1st battle of Armageddon).

Also, 40k is over the top.

That's the point.

There's a difference between 2 Grand Masters stomping a primarch and 100 terminators led by 3 Grand Masters of which only a dozen or so got away doing the same. Sure, there were more daemons there, but they had back-up from the IG and the SW.

DarknessEternal wrote:Big deal, Grey Knights have been killing daemon primarchs for literally as long as there has been Grey Knight fluff (1st battle of Armageddon).

Also, 40k is over the top.

That's the point.

As was said, there's a big difference from 100 Grey Knight Terminators, led by 3 Grandmasters fighting one Primarch at the same time and FINALLY winning a pyrrhic victory, versus 2 Grandmasters curbstomping a Primarch. They tiurned Mortatarion into a wuss.

And there is a difference between OTTT that's crazy awesome like most of 40k, and OTT that's idiotic.