Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Codex: Grey Knights........touched me....(sob)..

Mr Hyena wrote:

This one is a great leader and a beacon of hope to humanity. His wisdom and purity are legendary.

Problem is; that is the ultimate generic statement for any hero. How does it distinguish Draigo from any other big human legend?

Well, it is not. This is quite the opposite actually. Today's hero does need only to kill. How many wh40k grand champions are known MOSTLY for wisdom and purity and how many because they kicked hard somebody's ass..?
CREEEEEEED!! and Eldrad didn't kick themselves any Daemons / monsters / Primarchs etc. but they still managed to be top boys.. So killing 5 Avatars make you a better hero than killing 4? Is that the only hero measure? If it is, I'll stay with my gay space elves and have interesting heroes instead.
Besides, nice ignoring the rest of my post. I think I actually did answer your question. You just chose to ignore it.

How sure is everyone about this information?

I mean, I don't wanna waste my time to go out and spend $30 on an army codex that takes skill to play effectively.

I'm really tired of partially building an army only to have it superceded on the UBER scale by something else... my shelves only have so much storage space. After 4 years I haven't even been able to open up my paint pots because the latest and greatest codex keeps messing up my plans!

All my dreams of dominating the tournament circuit are continually dashed as well because a new codex comes about which obviously utilizes inferior players brains more effectively. I can't get my mom to give me a lift to the hobby store either because even SHE thinks buying a new codex is a waste of time! It's been hard enough coming out of my parents basement after I graduated from college... and now this! See what this codex has done to my family!?

That said...

The Codex: Grey Knights gives me gas.

Codex Grey Knights is a Tzeenthian plot designed to cause maximum unrest amongst 40k players.

Happygrunt wrote:Codex Grey Knights made me hide my kids, hide my wife, hide my kids, hide my wife and hid my husband because he's raping everyone out there!

I lol'd pretty hard here.
I could see him in my head saying it

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's a difference between 2 Grand Masters stomping a primarch and 100 terminators led by 3 Grand Masters of which only a dozen or so got away doing the same. Sure, there were more daemons there, but they had back-up from the IG and the SW.

The hell? Where are you getting 3 grand masters from? Angron was banished by 100 terminators and 1 Brother-Captain and zero Grand Masters. Also, the Brother-Captain banished him almost entirely by himself.

Grey knights are baaad puppiez!
(Still gonna get the codex though, just so I can be disgusted by it.)

codex grey knights aren't grey! (seriously, WTF is up with that?)
codex grey knights will save those of us who've been using outdated rules...then 2 months later 6th ed. will come along and it'll be outdated again!
Codex grey knights is a worse version of hitler!
what, too far?

Why all the hate for Codex: Grey Knights?

The only cheesy side to the codex is the henchmen stuff because it looks like they MAY be uber IF you can take unlimited amounts of them.

I play GK mostly myself, when the new codex comes out, I might take a unit or two of henchmen because pure GK aren't going to have enough anti tank (rending alone isn't good enough). I certainly won't spam dozens of henchmen units and I reckon the only people who will are going to be the ones who are DESPERATE to win. Don't get me wrong, when I play, I want to win but I don't play the hobby to win, I play because I enjoy the tactical challenge.

Anyway, most players will probably be more or less similar and only have a unit or two of henchmen. A pure GK force will be almost as hard to win with as the current Daemonhunters codex. An elite force will be practically impossible to win with - a 5 man unit of paladins, all pimped out will cost around 460 points. If you wanted to upgrade one man to an apothecary that one unit will cost well over 500 points.

When the codex comes out, there will most probably be restrictions on the number of henchmen units you can take and you will find that most GK armies are outnumbered, even by other marine armies and will take a lot of practice to win with.

ColdSadHungry wrote:The only cheesy side to the codex is the henchmen stuff because it looks like they MAY be uber IF you can take unlimited amounts of them.

a)- ISTs are only available as inquisitorial retinue, unless you take Coteaz, then they're troops.
b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

Codex Grey Knights will expand my gaming group, as one guy just now getting into 40k likes Grey Knights.

shrike wrote:b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

No there's not. There's only the Dreadknight. It's like one of those mechs in the Matrix - a battlesuit driven by a Grey Knight. The concept is a little juvenile but it's no different to one of the old eldar war walkers where the driver was exposed - they had a force field to protect them - the GK in the dreadknight will probably have aegis armour and since he forms PART of the overall construct of the dreadknight, it's no different to terminator armour. In fact, it's not even as cheesy as any normal terminator with a storm shield because it's supposedly only 2+/4++. It's much stronger and tougher because it's much bigger.

Admittedly some of the fluff and names (like nemesis doom fist) are cheesy but as for the codex itself, I don't think it's going to be top of the pile. When you look at units in isolation, like the paladins or mordrak then you think 'broken' but in the context of a whole army, they cost so much you'll have to make serious savings elsewhere to take more than a squad of 'broken' units.

Like I say, the only overpowered part now is the henchmen if you interpret the current leaked codex to say that you can take unlimited amounts when you take coteaz (personally, I don't think it'll ever happen). This codex will be good but not the best - it'll probably sit below IG, SW and BA.

Codex grey knights killed Tupac and Biggie
Codex grey knights beat Creed in chess
Codex grey knights molested the emperor when he was just a little boy
Codex grey knights is your father
Codex grey knights can field a pimp named slickback as a HQ choice

Lord Castellan wrote:Codex: Grey Knights killed Kenny!

those bastards!

ColdSadHungry wrote:

shrike wrote:b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

No there's not. There's only the Dreadknight.

aegis armour=armoured power armour.
terminator aegis armour=armoured aegis armour
dreadknight=armoured terminator aegis armour.

Codex: Grey Knights doesn't love Marineland.

Codex: Grey Knights created the Garbage Pail Kids Movie.

Codex: Grey Knights cancelled and subsequently uncancelled Family Guy.

EDIT: Since this is my 42nd post:

Codex: Grey Knights forgot to bring a towel

Codex: Grey Knights writes worse poetry than the Vogons, the Azgoths of Kria and Paul Neil Milne Johnstone COMBINED.

Codex: Grey Knights panicked.

Codex: Grey Knights is making those with less than tolerable hygiene whine about how OP it MIGHT be based on a leak, a leak nobody is even sure is legit.

Codex: Grey Knights is going to make GK players whine like 3 year olds when they realize that no matter how many cheesy rules they have 30 Marines at 2k points won't win many battles.

edit - man I'm slow today

shrike wrote:
b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

The only real potential for exploitation is Coteaz and Uberhench spam.

The GKs themselves, with possibly the sole exception of the DK, are underwhelming.

Storm bolters don't count as pistols.

That means a 200 point GKST that gets charged by Grey Hunters kills 2-3 models with all their force/power weapons. They might get one single model more if they get Hammerhand off. Meanwhile GH costing 50 fewer points kill the same 2-3 GKST, and if they have a MotW character their average is as high as the GKST with Hammerhand. There's nothing imbalanced there.

Many of their invul improvements are in CC only.

10 Paladins, costing 550 points plus upgrades--putting them closer to 700 even if being sparing about it--die to lascannon wounds 2/3 of the time. Three Vendettas coming out of reserves can wipe almost half the squad with average shooting. If 10 Paladins get charged by 8 TH/SS Terminators, even if they cast Hammerhand and have +1S Daemonhammers, and even if the Daemonhammer gives them +1 Invul and it's not limited to just the nemesis sword, then they kill 4 TH/SS at higher initiative and lose 2.5 men for an average result of tying or losing combat.

Now, I'm not denying that the henchman part of the codex (all two pages of it) look like complete and utterly broken nonsense if there's no difference between the playtest version and what actually gets released. But to claim that GK, meaning "pure" Grey Knights, are a cheese-a-thon is definitely not shaping up to be the case. There's two distinct parts of the codex; pure GK which look to be about as brokenly Uber as the Tyranids codex, and henches with certain GK and assassin support that look to be right up there with Space Wolves.

sourclams wrote:

shrike wrote:
b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

The only real potential for exploitation is Coteaz and Uberhench spam.

The GKs themselves, with possibly the sole exception of the DK, are underwhelming.

Storm bolters don't count as pistols.

That means a 200 point GKST that gets charged by Grey Hunters kills 2-3 models with all their force/power weapons. They might get one single model more if they get Hammerhand off. Meanwhile GH costing 50 fewer points kill the same 2-3 GKST, and if they have a MotW character their average is as high as the GKST with Hammerhand. There's nothing imbalanced there.

Many of their invul improvements are in CC only.

10 Paladins, costing 550 points plus upgrades--putting them closer to 700 even if being sparing about it--die to lascannon wounds 2/3 of the time. Three Vendettas coming out of reserves can wipe almost half the squad with average shooting. If 10 Paladins get charged by 8 TH/SS Terminators, even if they cast Hammerhand and have +1S Daemonhammers, and even if the Daemonhammer gives them +1 Invul and it's not limited to just the nemesis sword, then they kill 4 TH/SS at higher initiative and lose 2.5 men for an average result of tying or losing combat.

Now, I'm not denying that the henchman part of the codex (all two pages of it) look like complete and utterly broken nonsense if there's no difference between the playtest version and what actually gets released. But to claim that GK, meaning "pure" Grey Knights, are a cheese-a-thon is definitely not shaping up to be the case. There's two distinct parts of the codex; pure GK which look to be about as brokenly Uber as the Tyranids codex, and henches with certain GK and assassin support that look to be right up there with Space Wolves.

Pretty much how I look at it. I think its likely to a be a competitive, if limited codex with some cheese potential if some of this beta stuff goes to print. We will have to see.

shrike wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:

shrike wrote:b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

No there's not. There's only the Dreadknight.

aegis armour=armoured power armour.
terminator aegis armour=armoured aegis armour
dreadknight=armoured terminator aegis armour.

Shrike. There comes a time in every mans life, when he has to stop saying the same thing. Over and over again. I beg you.


Im actually quite sad at how uncompetitive GK seems to be at the current time. We're going to have to take a WAAC list just to win friendly games!

you don't know that yet the codex was and still IS only a beta. it could change drastically between now and then.

ph34r wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's a difference between 2 Grand Masters stomping a primarch and 100 terminators led by 3 Grand Masters of which only a dozen or so got away doing the same. Sure, there were more daemons there, but they had back-up from the IG and the SW.

The hell? Where are you getting 3 grand masters from? Angron was banished by 100 terminators and 1 Brother-Captain and zero Grand Masters. Also, the Brother-Captain banished him almost entirely by himself.

Now that you mention it, I can't find my source anymore, guess I might be wrong. I'd still like to know where YOU got your info from, if it was so easy for this BC to banish Angron why did almost everyone die?

sourclams wrote:

shrike wrote:
b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

The only real potential for exploitation is Coteaz and Uberhench spam.

The GKs themselves, with possibly the sole exception of the DK, are underwhelming.

Storm bolters don't count as pistols.

That means a 200 point GKST that gets charged by Grey Hunters kills 2-3 models with all their force/power weapons. They might get one single model more if they get Hammerhand off. Meanwhile GH costing 50 fewer points kill the same 2-3 GKST, and if they have a MotW character their average is as high as the GKST with Hammerhand. There's nothing imbalanced there.

Many of their invul improvements are in CC only.

10 Paladins, costing 550 points plus upgrades--putting them closer to 700 even if being sparing about it--die to lascannon wounds 2/3 of the time. Three Vendettas coming out of reserves can wipe almost half the squad with average shooting. If 10 Paladins get charged by 8 TH/SS Terminators, even if they cast Hammerhand and have +1S Daemonhammers, and even if the Daemonhammer gives them +1 Invul and it's not limited to just the nemesis sword, then they kill 4 TH/SS at higher initiative and lose 2.5 men for an average result of tying or losing combat.

Now, I'm not denying that the henchman part of the codex (all two pages of it) look like complete and utterly broken nonsense if there's no difference between the playtest version and what actually gets released. But to claim that GK, meaning "pure" Grey Knights, are a cheese-a-thon is definitely not shaping up to be the case. There's two distinct parts of the codex; pure GK which look to be about as brokenly Uber as the Tyranids codex, and henches with certain GK and assassin support that look to be right up there with Space Wolves.

well said. my thoughts exactly.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Why all the hate for Codex: Grey Knights?

Well, I fail to see "all the hate".. Actually it felt more like a very light and fun thread (minus some posts, but every thread gets those.). Did you actually read it? Maybe 10% of it was people saying anything about the rules or the leaked pdf. The rest is just fluff or mild and fun taunting (hope I used the right word).
I've got a request. Go here if you want to squabble about not released rules and such. Let this thread be fun and not-closed, please.

Macok wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:Why all the hate for Codex: Grey Knights?

Well, I fail to see "all the hate".. Actually it felt more like a very light and fun thread (minus some posts, but every thread gets those.). Did you actually read it? Maybe 10% of it was people saying anything about the rules or the leaked pdf. The rest is just fluff or mild and fun taunting (hope I used the right word).
I've got a request. Go here if you want to squabble about not released rules and such. Let this thread be fun and not-closed, please.

Codex: Grey Knights locked this thread.

Jaon wrote:

shrike wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:

shrike wrote:b)- Ward's writing it. It's 80% likely going to be a cheese-a-thon. There's even armoured armoured armoured armour.

No there's not. There's only the Dreadknight.

aegis armour=armoured power armour.
terminator aegis armour=armoured aegis armour
dreadknight=armoured terminator aegis armour.

Shrike. There comes a time in every mans life, when he has to stop saying the same thing. Over and over again. I beg you.

I've only said it twice, and this is just for one guy, while the other was to a whole thread. And I'm not a man, I'm a teen.

As far as I saw it, it was poking gentle fun. Hell, I'm damn excited for the book, but the fluff is pretty damn ridiculous.

Codex: Grey Knights went back in time and killed Horus and told the emperor it would be their little secret, then roughed up the emperor "lightly" to make it look like he was in a fight.

Codex: Grey Knights is the star child prophecy

Codex: Grey Knights watches Uwe Boll movies and thinks they're pretty alright

Codex: Grey Knights thinks the Star ship troopers movies were better then the book

Codex: Grey Knights doesn't like people complaining about it's power level and is currently making a list of where they sleep.

codex: grey knights don't do what jesus would do.
codex: grey knights ate my dog.
codex: grey knights made jeeves ask them.
codex: grey knights edit naughty words into wikipedia.
codex: grey knights flushes when you're in the shower.
codex: grey knights killed the thundercats.
codex: grey knights don't like monty python.
codex: grey knights made the disney channel. The name was a cover-up.
codex: grey knights faked the moon landing.
codex: grey knights killed JFK.
codex: grey knights caused the holocaust. What, they have that psychic power for nothing?
codex: grey knights found waldo/wally.

shrike wrote:
codex: grey knights killed the thundercats.

...and they are to be praised for it.

shrike wrote:
codex: grey knights faked the moon landing. On Titan.

Fixed that one for ya.