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DarknessEternal wrote:

Trickstick wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Also, Autarchs are a precedent. Each of them provide +1 to reserve rolls.

Astropaths and Officers of the fleet, however, do not stack in multiples. So you can't really cite precedent when there is a competing precedent that rules the other way.

I'm aware, but Dash said there were "no" precedents of things stacking without explicitly saying they could. There are.

I agree the GK codex is unclear on the stacking of Hammerhand and am only arguing the point that it's uncertain. Anyone who thinks they have 100% accurate interpretation of it is full of hubris.

The precedent I'm referring to is stacking multiple of the same things on one unit, not multiple units stacking benefits to something other than either unit.

One unit casting hammerhand on itself twice is not the same as two separate autarchs stacking reserve bonuses.

So, how about a Wolf Lord wielding two frost axes as a precendent?

thats different, as a WL only gets the frost axe bonus when he uses the weapon, and cannot use both of them in CC

he can use both as they are the same special weapon.


I would say he doesn't get +2 Str because the Frast Blade description says "The wielder of a Frost Blade gains +1Str"

the Wolf Lord is wielding a frost blade. therefore he gets +1Str and fulfills the requiorements of both blades.


Hammerhand is different as Psychic powers aren't resolved simultainiously.

Grey Templar wrote:he can use both as they are the same special weapon.


I would say he doesn't get +2 Str because the Frast Blade description says "The wielder of a Frost Blade gains +1Str"

the Wolf Lord is wielding a frost blade. therefore he gets +1Str and fulfills the requiorements of both blades.


Hammerhand is different as Psychic powers aren't resolved simultainiously.

I'm not sure how you can say that doesn't stack, because he's weilding two weapons and each seperate one grants +1 Strength in combat. Therefore he has one for each blade.

GT - reread the Close combat rules. they state you pick ONE weapon and use THAT weapon. The other weapon, at best, can add an extra attack.

nosferatu1001 wrote:GT - reread the Close combat rules. they state you pick ONE weapon and use THAT weapon. The other weapon, at best, can add an extra attack.

I had a feeling you guys might use that one against me.

thats what i meant.

he only gets the bonus for 2 CCWs as the special bonus is fulfilled for both weapons when it is activated.

Dashofpepper wrote:
The precedent I'm referring to is stacking multiple of the same things on one unit, not multiple units stacking benefits to something other than either unit.

One unit casting hammerhand on itself twice is not the same as two separate autarchs stacking reserve bonuses.

Weaken Resolve is the same though. Two penalties, both apply. Same as two bonuses, both apply.

omerakk wrote:I think it was intended that hammerhand cant stack with itself, just because of the fact that the might of titan rule has the line written in "this ability stacks with hammerhand"

Why would they bother putting that line in if hammerhand or might of titan stacked with themselves? Why would might even be needed at all when a unit could just keep boosting itself with multiple hammerhands?

Same thing with pys communion. "this ability stacks with other uses of communion"

If abilities were able to passively stack with themselves, they wouldn't have needed to write that rule in.


As a general rule, no ability, pys or otherwise can stack with itself unless the rule states otherwise.

This has settled it for me. Many thanks omerakk. From now on, our group will only read that things stack if specifically permitted. I'm not trying to impose this ruling on anyone else but it seems logical to me as it's part of the content of the latest codex.

The reason for using might is that it boosts your armour penetration potential against vehicles more than hammerhand does.

These things don't come up in playtesting because they discuss the rules with each other. They know, in their heads, that they can't stack hammerhand. So they don't. They cast Might of Titan, which they intended to stack with hammerhand, which they spell out.

So no time in playtesting did anyone ever try to cast hammerhand multiple times - they know they can't, it never even occurs to them.

We just don't see all that. We don't even know that happened. All we see is a broken rule, and people call it how they see it.

I personally see clear intent and precedent even within the same codex. My local players do not, and see nothing stopping them.