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BronzeJon wrote:The sisters armor likely doesn't have as much muscle fiber bundles or servos/actuators as astartes PA, therefore, it allows them to carry and fire a heavy bolter but is slimmer and far more maneuverable than it's green giant counterpart, which is why it looks like eldar armor to a point.

S4 for a marine sans PA is equivalent to benching roughly 500lbs or more. From reading Salamander, sgt Ba'ken is seen in the gymnasia many times throughout the book for multiple hours with the heaviest weight in the room, which, I'll assume would have to be about 500.

Considering there is some European guy who can bench 500 for two reps and he isnt on steroids and, is in fact, human.

Five hundred pounds is absurdly pitiful for a superhuman, their bodies alone would weigh beyond 500 pounds.

Grey Templar wrote:I would also imagine that, IRL, PA would give you only a nominal strength boost. It might allow you to bench another 20 pounds or carry another 50. but the bulk of your exerted strength would still be your natural body as most of the armor's power is going towards moving the suit so you arn't slowed.

Technically, that is only a limitation of whatever mechanics are employed to move the suit. The more powerful your servos are, the more strength you'll have left after the amount reserved for moving the suit - for the latter's weight may not have to change parallel to the power.

Here is a real world prototype of a Japanese-built powered exoskeleton. It enables the wearer to lift or carry five times as much weight as he could without assistance of the suit.

We're almost there! Now someone go and invent ceramite.

BronzeJon wrote:The sisters armor likely doesn't have as much muscle fiber bundles or servos/actuators as astartes PA, therefore, it allows them to carry and fire a heavy bolter but is slimmer and far more maneuverable than it's green giant counterpart, which is why it looks like eldar armor to a point.

It is also missing a lot of other gadgets that the Astartes model has, but that is essentially the point, yeah. As Void_Dragon correctly pointed out, there's a bit in the WH Codex where it says that the strength enhancement is not as good as the Marine version.

Melissia wrote:Lynata's overly simplistic view on what is canon and what isn't doesn't really work in 40k.

It works out just fine for me. And this way I don't have to deal with Multilaser Marines, backflipping Terminators, flirting SoB (armed with civilian weapons as far as DH is concerned) and Sisters deserting to Chaos left and right.

"It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
- Andy Hoare, currently writing for FFG and the Black Library

That sounds like it hurts your stance that only studio material is canon rather than helps it. IMHO.

most of their physical bit just comes from the power armor. I seriously doubt an SOB could take on a grey knight

Except they did, IIRC, in one of the BL books.

Regardless, Sisters achieve victory through skill, not raw force of strength, and their martial prowess comes from practicing a martial art that allows them to achieve things which are miraculous to the unschooled. Such as fighting toe to toe with Space Marines.

Void__Dragon wrote:That sounds like it hurts your stance that only studio material is canon rather than helps it. IMHO.

Not really. You could perhaps argue that nothing (meaning: not even studio material) is "canon" - but it clearly denounces the reliability of licensed material (as that was the topic of the discussion where that comment was made). Although the conflicting contents introduced by said material should already speak for themselves, imo...
Either way, I'm happy, as, just like ADB who simply ignores what he doesn't like for the purpose of writing his BL novels, I don't have to accept any licensed material I deem silly. But I think we already talked about that in another thread.

So to sum it up:

- without power armor regular SoB are strong as normal Humans ( as much as normal Humans body can provide after years of training ).
- with power armor they are stronger then ordinary Humans ( but not that much, they can't push over tanks like Astartes ).
- having strong bodies doesn't mean that their bodies are liek that of bodybuilder, they have normal female bodies.
- BL books are known to have a "slight" off-fluff stuff ( like C.S.Goto ).

I think we are done here...next thread...

Lynata wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I would also imagine that, IRL, PA would give you only a nominal strength boost. It might allow you to bench another 20 pounds or carry another 50. but the bulk of your exerted strength would still be your natural body as most of the armor's power is going towards moving the suit so you arn't slowed.

Technically, that is only a limitation of whatever mechanics are employed to move the suit. The more powerful your servos are, the more strength you'll have left after the amount reserved for moving the suit - for the latter's weight may not have to change parallel to the power.

Here is a real world prototype of a Japanese-built powered exoskeleton. It enables the wearer to lift or carry five times as much weight as he could without assistance of the suit.

We're almost there! Now someone go and invent ceramite.

But that suit isn't carrying around the weight of said Ceramite. I would imagine thats going to cut down on the additional strength quite abit. depending on the actual weight of Ceramite of course.

You could end up only being able to lift a nominal fraction more then what you normally carry.

Regardless, Sisters power armor DOES enhance their strength. But their strength is human strength, so it doesn't increase it to S4. Marine strength isn't increased to S5 by their power armor, either, their strength is S4 base.

Basically, in DH, power armor adds +20 to strength. Most trained soldiers have ~40 strength. This is roughly 1.5x the strength value. Space Marines often have 40-50 strength and their power armor also adds +20, but have Unnatural strength making their bonus double that much for the purposes of dealign damage, opposed strength tests, etc. So the biological enhancements are far greater than the mechanical ones.

Grey Templar wrote:But that suit isn't carrying around the weight of said Ceramite. I would imagine thats going to cut down on the additional strength quite abit. depending on the actual weight of Ceramite of course.

Well, according to GW Codex material, a suit of Space Marine power armour weighs in at about 250 pounds (i.e. ~110 kg). Smaller versions would probably be a bit lighter.

What makes an unpowered suit so difficult to move even for a Space Marine isn't its weight but the fibre bundles running through the entire armour, and which would be rather stiff when left unpowered. It's a bit of irony: the very thing increasing the wearer's mobility and strength becomes a terrible hindrance when power goes out, even more than just the weight of the ceramite plates.

That said, and speaking of fibre-bundles - the Japanese HAL suit doesn't use any and instead relies on a more "traditional" (heh) servo-mechanism, so I imagine mobility to be somewhat limited. It actually looks quite nimble, but is still worlds from what I think 40k power armour would allow you to do. And in the end, the most important thing for a suit of powered armour on a battlefield isn't increased strength, but that the soldier wearing it doesn't feel too restricted by this additional protection. It's why the Storm Troopers of WW1 discarded the breastplate they had at first. And the Space Marines don't send their Terminators anywhere as well. It's all a question of bringing the right tools to the job.

Indeed, we need to wait for Artificial Muscles and Ceramite.

A robotic suit named "HAL" made by a company named "Cyberdyne" ???

Really?

It looks fly though.

Melissia wrote:Sisters of Battle are not musclebuilders. They are warriors.

Try showing an image of a female USMC marine or a female Mossad agent or something instead.

Sisters are as strong as a physically fit, exceedingly well-trained soldier. Their strength is then enhanced and stabilized by their power armor.

That wouldn't be accurate as the vast majority of female Marines have typical builds. Very few of them actually have the physical strength to match what modern infantry soldiers/marines do. Because it's really theoretical there are very few women in the world of the appropriate build.

That said, I know of at least one female lifter capable of lifting 225 lbs over her head for multiple reps. Women can become very strong.

SoB are probably as strong as or slightly stronger than average guardsman. Their particular power armor does not increase their physical strength.

Amaya wrote:

Melissia wrote:Sisters of Battle are not musclebuilders. They are warriors.

Try showing an image of a female USMC marine or a female Mossad agent or something instead.

Sisters are as strong as a physically fit, exceedingly well-trained soldier. Their strength is then enhanced and stabilized by their power armor.

That wouldn't be accurate as the vast majority of female Marines have typical builds. Very few of them actually have the physical strength to match what modern infantry soldiers/marines do. Because it's really theoretical there are very few women in the world of the appropriate build.

That said, I know of at least one female lifter capable of lifting 225 lbs over her head for multiple reps. Women can become very strong.

SoB are probably as strong as or slightly stronger than average guardsman. Their particular power armor does not increase their physical strength.

Yeah it does there's reason why there strength is 4.

Cheesecat wrote:Yeah it does there's reason why there strength is 4.

Sister of Battle strength is 3.

Though it does increase strength. Just not to the same extent as Astartes power armour.

Cheesecat wrote:

Amaya wrote:

Melissia wrote:Sisters of Battle are not musclebuilders. They are warriors.

Try showing an image of a female USMC marine or a female Mossad agent or something instead.

Sisters are as strong as a physically fit, exceedingly well-trained soldier. Their strength is then enhanced and stabilized by their power armor.

That wouldn't be accurate as the vast majority of female Marines have typical builds. Very few of them actually have the physical strength to match what modern infantry soldiers/marines do. Because it's really theoretical there are very few women in the world of the appropriate build.

That said, I know of at least one female lifter capable of lifting 225 lbs over her head for multiple reps. Women can become very strong.

SoB are probably as strong as or slightly stronger than average guardsman. Their particular power armor does not increase their physical strength.

Yeah it does there's reason why there strength is 4.

No, Sisters of Battle are still s3 and it specifically states in the fluff that their armor only grants increased protection and enough strength increase for them to use heavy weapons without a team.

Amaya wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Amaya wrote:

Melissia wrote:Sisters of Battle are not musclebuilders. They are warriors.

Try showing an image of a female USMC marine or a female Mossad agent or something instead.

Sisters are as strong as a physically fit, exceedingly well-trained soldier. Their strength is then enhanced and stabilized by their power armor.

That wouldn't be accurate as the vast majority of female Marines have typical builds. Very few of them actually have the physical strength to match what modern infantry soldiers/marines do. Because it's really theoretical there are very few women in the world of the appropriate build.

That said, I know of at least one female lifter capable of lifting 225 lbs over her head for multiple reps. Women can become very strong.

SoB are probably as strong as or slightly stronger than average guardsman. Their particular power armor does not increase their physical strength.

Yeah it does there's reason why there strength is 4.

No, Sisters of Battle are still s3 and it specifically states in the fluff that their armor only grants increased protection and enough strength increase for them to use heavy weapons without a team.

Fail on my part. Although I still think it enhances there strength because they carry heavy bolters.

Cheesecat wrote:Although I still think it enhances there strength because they carry heavy bolters.

You bring a good example.

Fluff is inconsistent on that though.

ASFAIK only 3 models carry heavy bolters.

S3 SoB Retributors, justified by them wearing power armor.

A S4 IG Special Character, justified by him being a badass.

S4 Marines, justified by them being superhumans. It's kind of odd that SoB are the only s3 models in the game that can carry a crew manned weapon.

Str. 4 Nobz. Orks can loot anything, after all.

Amaya wrote:Fluff is inconsistent on that though.

There's nothing inconsistent about it. "S3" isn't fluff, it's a game stat: just because two models have the same Strength value as per game mechanics doesn't mean they have exactly the same strength. See power-armoured Space Marines compared to Marine Scouts, both of whom have the same strength profile.

Also, Harker wasn't the first Guardsman that could carry a heavy bolter. Look at the guy on the bottom right on this pic - and he was S3, too.

Bottom line - whilst you can assume that anyone with S4 can carry a heavy bolter (see Marine Scouts), in the S3 range only exceptional individuals can do so - either due to special equipment (power armour) or because they have above-average constitution (lots o' muscle).

There are two depictions of sisters which I find amusing.

You have the ultra butch steroid woman battlenuns with scars running all over their body from who knows what. And then you have the delicate, slim, and aesthetically pleasing battle maidens who spend their free time having pillow fights and raising puppies.

And they're both represented by the same stats.

Nothing wrong with that. In the end, the amount of scars and/or muscles is merely a sign of battlefield experience (fresh novice out of the Schola vs a veteran of decades) and specialization (Retributor w/ heavy weapon vs a driver or pilot). Added to that comes the fact that, unlike individual IG regiments, the Sisterhood recruits from all over the Imperium - so you may indeed end up with a Sister of Battle born on Cadia next to one hailing from Catachan, with the appropriate differences in their looks.

Statwise, it's also no different than comparing Catachan IG brutes to the slim low-grav Harakoni. In the TT, the strength value just encompasses a rather wide range, and only people of exceptionally high (Harker, Space Marines) or low (Chaos Cultists) strength differ from the S3 norm.

Sister Liandra from the peaceful, though arid, Shrine World of Maccabeus Quintus will not look the same as Sister Brigitta, from the Feral World of Hyborea III.

While Sister Liandra might be a Sister Militant, wielding heavy bolter, flamer and chainsword, and Sister Brigitta might be a Sister Hospitaler, tending to the sick and injured... until Liandra sees a few battles and suffers a few wounds, Brigitta is, in all likelihood, going to be much bigger, stronger and more battle-scarred, at least at the outset, simply because she's from a more savage world where such things were required to get by in daily life.

They're as strong as a small pony.

Melissia wrote:Except they did, IIRC, in one of the BL books.

Not taking them on, so much as dying slowly and stalling them (still impressive in my opinion.), albeit the GK's were dicks and crashed a strike cruiser into the planet at the time.