Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I read it, and if you don't mind - it's all legends and rumors to me. And as you said:

You don't have good reading comprehension then, or you're lying. I suspect the latter. If did read it though and comprehended it then you're just in denial. Admit you were wrong.

I did read it. And I don't believe Necron fluff. Those are all myth and legends from time that was xxxxxxxxxx eons ago. To me, Necons are bunch of brain dead zombies that we put down the moment they woke up ( well except Damnos and Sanctuary 101 ).

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:With means that old fluff from 3'rd edition will not be considered cannon anymore.

*Which

I type fast, I would love to see you trying to type Serbian

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:My deal is that you said "Act's of Faith are not supported by the Emperor". They from who are they comming from then?
It's like saying: "Chaos servants powers don't come from Choas Gods".

In Warhammer 40k it is simple logic - to who you swear your loyalty/soul/whatever... you get powers and influence from it. And in return you serve/pray/kill for it.
Chaos Servants prey/kill for Chaos Gods and they give them their powers. Emperor's servants pray/kill for the Emperor and he gives them his powers ti use in battle ( you said that Emperor is powerful ). Necrons kill/harvest souls for C'Tan and they give them their manifestation to use in battle ( well at least until the next codex ).

SoB don't have psykers, super-natural units etc... They only pray in battle and they got Act's of Faith to use because of it. From who are they coming if not from the Emperor himself?

Funny, I didn't say that. I said "It's not proven." Witch is the same thing.

Unlike the fact that Chaos Cultists are granted powers by the Gods. That is proven, not just belief.

The Emperor's influence itself is not proven. He could just be dead. :3

Funny, since Acts of Faith, whatever their origin, are inherently supernatural. It could easily be a boon from Chaos granted as a joke. :3

I'm not denying that the Emperor could grant then, only saying that it's not definite that he does.

Gawsh, stop being so serious guy.

1hadhq wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
It's more to do with the fact that bar a few unique instances the Chaos Gods don't give a damn about the material realm. They enjoy watching their servants, mortal and Daemonic, wreaking havoc amongst the mortal races, but most of their time is dedicated to playing the Great Game, or the events in the Warp. Tzeentch spends a great deal of time staring into some portal in the Impossible Fortress which I can't remember the name of.

Not giving a damn could switch off their favourite "tv-show" easily, let the C'tan do their thing and have it discontinued...

Still not sure where you get the ratio of attention spent on the material realm vs the warp from.
Plus, "new" WD fluff grants sisters victories against chaos be it red corsairs or demon.
Just waiting when they realize as per the "new" fluff the number of ordos is raised to 9...

The current Chaos Daemons codex. They're far more concerned with vying for supremacy than they are about the material realm. Even the Horus Heresy deserved but an instant. I'll get my codex out if need be, but until then read the Lexicanum entry, it's sums it up pretty well.

Lexicanum - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Game wrote:The Great Game is the constant struggle for dominance between the Chaos Gods. The Warp is not only home to the Gods, but it is also their battlefield. No god can ever win the Great Game, for if all other Warp Powers were obliterated, the Warp would become a still, unmoving mass and Chaos would no longer exist. So it is an Eternal Conflict. The Full attention of the God is concentrated on the Great Game, a fraction of their attention will very rarely be fixed on the mortal realm but only for an instant as the Great game is more important. The Chaos Gods will also unite rarely roughly every few thousand years, if there is need to do so (to thwart a threat or to take advantage of an occurrence). The rise of the Emperor was such a time, the Warp Gods engineered the wars of the Horus Heresy to bring about his downfall, distracting them for an instant from the Great Game. The Great Conflict which is played out amongst the gods is also mirrored by their followers and worshipers in the material realm. This is what the Daemon-Primarchs and other Great Chaos Champions are occupied with, fighting for the supremacy of their god, with untold power at their fingertips.

Source - Codex: Chaos Daemons

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I read it, and if you don't mind - it's all legends and rumors to me. And as you said:

You don't have good reading comprehension then, or you're lying. I suspect the latter. If did read it though and comprehended it then you're just in denial. Admit you were wrong.

I did read it. And I don't believe Necron fluff. Those are all myth and legends from time that was xxxxxxxxxx eons ago. To me, Necons are bunch of brain dead zombies that we put down the moment they woke up ( well except Damnos and Sanctuary 101 ).

It's knowledge granted to us as the reader. It's not myth and legend re-told by some random Eldar. You're denying it for the sake of the argument basically.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:With means that old fluff from 3'rd edition will not be considered cannon anymore.

*Which

I type fast, I would love to see you trying to type Serbian

It'd probably be the same as you typing in English.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:My deal is that you said "Act's of Faith are not supported by the Emperor". They from who are they comming from then?
It's like saying: "Chaos servants powers don't come from Choas Gods".

In Warhammer 40k it is simple logic - to who you swear your loyalty/soul/whatever... you get powers and influence from it. And in return you serve/pray/kill for it.
Chaos Servants prey/kill for Chaos Gods and they give them their powers. Emperor's servants pray/kill for the Emperor and he gives them his powers ti use in battle ( you said that Emperor is powerful ). Necrons kill/harvest souls for C'Tan and they give them their manifestation to use in battle ( well at least until the next codex ).

SoB don't have psykers, super-natural units etc... They only pray in battle and they got Act's of Faith to use because of it. From who are they coming if not from the Emperor himself?

Funny, I didn't say that. I said "It's not proven." Witch is the same thing.

Unlike the fact that Chaos Cultists are granted powers by the Gods. That is proven, not just belief.

The Emperor's influence itself is not proven. He could just be dead. :3

Funny, since Acts of Faith, whatever their origin, are inherently supernatural. It could easily be a boon from Chaos granted as a joke. :3

I'm not denying that the Emperor could grant then, only saying that it's not definite that he does.

Gawsh, stop being so serious guy.

Stop denying the Emperor's true power brain dead zombie .

It's not the same. He said it hadn't been proven, not that it definitely isn't possible.

iproxtaco wrote:
It's knowledge granted to us as the reader. It's not myth and legend re-told by some random Eldar. You're denying it for the sake of the argument basically.

No. It is simply what i believe in. Void Dragon and you don't believe in Emperor's true power and that is ok, I am not attacking you because of that dough...

It'd probably be the same as you typing in English.

Hey hey hey, I am not that bad. I just miss a letter of two because I type Chaotic

It's not the same. He said it hadn't been proven, not that it definitely isn't possible.

And he strongly implemented he doesn't believe in it while failing to give some explanation from were those powers came from.
And it is even stated in fluff that Act's of Faith are Emperor's blessings in battle. Now, there is no proof for that other than words, same as for other factions.

Brother Coa wrote:I did read it. And I don't believe Necron fluff. Those are all myth and legends from time that was xxxxxxxxxx eons ago. To me, Necons are bunch of brain dead zombies that we put down the moment they woke up ( well except Damnos and Sanctuary 101 ).

Frankly, I should have stopped reading your post the moment you said "And I don't believe Necron fluff," since at a certain point you cross a threshold where it is obvious you're not in denial so much as you are trolling, and you are reaching close to that threshold.

Narratively, much of the Necron fluff is presented as fact that we, the reader, are privilege too. Not all is, granted, but what I have mentioned is stated objectively.

Brother Coa wrote:I type fast, I would love to see you trying to type Serbian

Don't speak the language.

Brother Coa wrote: Witch is the same thing.

No, it's not. Just because I say it's not proven doesn't mean I say it's definitely not true.

And IIRC, it states that the Ecclesiary believes that the Acts of Faith are manifestations of the Emperor's power, not that they objectively are, though, I have neither the 3e Witchhunters codex or the WD update on me to check.

Brother Coa wrote:Stop denying the Emperor's true power brain dead zombie .

Even if Acts of Faith do not come from the Emperor, that's not so much a strike against his power as it is the Sisters being deluded. Assuming that they do not. I'm just saying.

Also, just saying, I don't know if you are joking or not, but referring to people with terms such as "brain dead zombie" whenever you speak to them doesn't leave a particularly good impression.

Oh, and implemented and implied are not synonyms. Come on man, I've pointed this out to you before. I have implemented nothing.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I did read it. And I don't believe Necron fluff. Those are all myth and legends from time that was xxxxxxxxxx eons ago. To me, Necons are bunch of brain dead zombies that we put down the moment they woke up ( well except Damnos and Sanctuary 101 ).

Frankly, I should have stopped reading your post the moment you said "And I don't believe Necron fluff," since at a certain point you cross a threshold where it is obvious you're not in denial so much as you are trolling, and you are reaching close to that threshold.

I am not Trolling, it's all alien propaganda to me. To me there is only Imperial Truth.

Don't speak the language.

It is rude to attack people who do not know 100% English you know...

Even if Acts of Faith do not come from the Emperor, that's not so much a strike against his power as it is the Sisters being deluded. Assuming that they do not. I'm just saying.

Also, just saying, I don't know if you are joking or not, but referring to people with terms such as "brain dead zombie" whenever you speak to them doesn't leave a particularly good impression.

Oh, and implemented and implied are not synonyms. Come on man, I've pointed this out to you before. I have implemented nothing.

Oh, sorry I forgot you are Necon fanboy. So you are space brain dead zombie ( what Necrons essentially are ).

Have people still not figured out that Trolling is all this guy does on the background boards?

I guess not.

The funny thing is: I do not quite know what trolling really is. Honestly, I always tough that that is only to make someone mad by lying a lot...

It's trying to make someone mad, but you could be telling the truth.

GamzaTheChaos wrote:hello! I was reading the Grey Knights Omnibus and the fight that took place between the grey knights and sisters was pretty crazy.
but there were a few moments when their physical strength seem far above any normal human.

and so I ask being ignorant on any sisters of battle fluff. how physically strong are they? they seem much stronger then guardsmen.
I understand they have power armor but do they have implants that increase strength as well?

I mean it must take a lot to pummel a grey knight backward >.>

Sorry that your original question got totally derailed by a discussion completely irrelevant to it.

I would like to add, for a bit of clarification, that while a SOB has the strength and musculature common to highly trained, physically active warriors, their power armor is not just a multiplier of that strength.

First, power armor for unenhanced humans must necessarily be smaller than that of Astartes. Thus, mechanically, it is probably less able to augment their strength, just as smaller motors and pistons are able to exert less force than larger motors and pistons of the same quality.

Second, power armor is heavy. A non-insubstantial amount of that 'augmented strength' goes to allowing the user to move normally in armor. Even if the SOB has her strength increased substantially by the power armor, she's going to be using a lot of that to carry around the armor itself. A weightlifter carrying around 50 pounds of gear isn't going to lift as much weight as a weightlifter clad only in sweat pants.

On the other hand, the mass of that power armor does have some benefits. A SOB hitting you is connecting with substantially more mass than a normal guardsman or even Stormtrooper. Force is intimately connected to mass, so the SOB may well be able to deck a Space Marine.

Finally, of course, the TT caveat. Strength 3 covers a wide variety of figures in the game. SOB, IG, Eldar, Dark Eldar, many Tyranids, most Orks, all clock in at Strength 3. The things that do qualify for S4 tend to have mechanical strength augmentation (Necrons, SM, CSM) or are somewhere between big (Ork Nobs) and huge (some Tyranids). The TTG doesn't attempt to quantify the very real differences between, say, Imperial Navy Fleet Envoy strength and Ork Boy strength. Heck, Terminators are S4 even though they are much bigger and bulkier than regular Space Marines, and are supposed to be in armor which is much more powerfully augmented.

Melissia wrote:Sisters of Battle are not musclebuilders. They are warriors.

Try showing an image of a female USMC marine

Yeah she looks scary!

Here's how sisters handle their bolt pistols:

- Off-topic video removed. While I assume you were aiming for humour, comparing trained soldiers to some scrawny individual who clearly has no weapons training serves no purpose other than to get people riled. - insaniak

Void__Dragon wrote:

And IIRC, it states that the Ecclesiary believes that the Acts of Faith are manifestations of the Emperor's power, not that they objectively are, though, I have neither the 3e Witchhunters codex or the WD update on me to check.

It says this in the same omnipotent narration that all codex's use. The following is under "rules" not fluff. So, there is no in-universe bias to the following.


WH Codex pg. 18

"Acts of Faith are a manifestations of the Emperor's divine purpose; small miracles that can turn the tide of battle if used in the correct combination at just the right moment"

"Guided by the will of the Emperor Himself, the shots and blows of the faithful shatter their enemies armor with contemptuous ease."

The power comes from the Emperor, because they worship him, and most likely due to what ever pact he made with Saint Dominica during the Age of Apostasy. The current WD couches Act of Faith in the same terms. The powers have always come from the Emperor, and has never been in question. Its never even implies that the Faith was due to latent psychic powers. Andy Hoare even said as much in the designer notes for the WH codex. I don't where this supposed ambiguity is coming from.

Sersi wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

And IIRC, it states that the Ecclesiary believes that the Acts of Faith are manifestations of the Emperor's power, not that they objectively are, though, I have neither the 3e Witchhunters codex or the WD update on me to check.

It says this in the same omnipotent narration that all codex's use. The following is under "rules" not fluff. So, there is no in-universe bias to the following.


WH Codex pg. 18

"Acts of Faith are a manifestations of the Emperor's divine purpose; small miracles that can turn the tide of battle if used in the correct combination at just the right moment"

"Guided by the will of the Emperor Himself, the shots and blows of the faithful shatter their enemies armor with contemptuous ease."

The power comes from the Emperor, because they worship him, and most likely due to what ever pact he made with Saint Dominica during the Age of Apostasy. The current WD couches Act of Faith in the same terms. The powers have always come from the Emperor, and has never been in question. Its never even implies that the Faith was due to latent psychic powers. Andy Hoare even said as much in the designer notes for the WH codex. I don't were this supposed ambiguity is coming from.

This means I was right and Void__Dragon was wrong.

A first time for everything I guess.

The power armour grants the sister wearing it the strenght to probably knock off the jaw-bone of an normal human, but mainly to help the sister manouver in the battlefield and handle heavy equipment. If it would be Guardsmen vs Sister, the sister would win.

The important thing is the OP was curious due to sisters taking on Grey Knights and the sisters actually beating the Knights back in close combat. The simple point to highlight is that the sisters do NOT have the physical strength to do this naturally and that power armor would not bridge the gap between elite marines in their own better power armor and very fit women in power armor. Simply, the women are capable of being enhanced by blessings derived from their pious faith in the emperor.
aka most of this thread is irrelevant.

Well, the Grey Knights get Hammerhand too.

I would have to see the context behind a Sister overpowering a Grey Knight, since it seems unlikely.

UrbanCowboy wrote: due to sisters taking on Grey Knights and the sisters actually beating the Knights back in close combat.

What Where did that happened?

GamzaTheChaos wrote:hello! I was reading the Grey Knights Omnibus and the fight that took place between the grey knights and sisters was pretty crazy.
but there were a few moments when their physical strength seem far above any normal human.

and so I ask being ignorant on any sisters of battle fluff. how physically strong are they? they seem much stronger then guardsmen.
I understand they have power armor but do they have implants that increase strength as well?

I mean it must take a lot to pummel a grey knight backward >.>

OP's post.
Look at the last sentence. That is what I was referring to.

Brother Coa wrote:

UrbanCowboy wrote: due to sisters taking on Grey Knights and the sisters actually beating the Knights back in close combat.

What Where did that happened?

He's referring too the GK omnibus, although the GKs weren't getting beaten back. it was more of a bloody grind that the Sisters had no hope of winning and the GKs couldn't afford to take part in because it would slow themdown.

Fortunantly,

Grey Templar wrote:
Fortunantly,

Spoiler:

the Cannoness had actually fought alongside GKs before and stopped the fighting when she saw who they were fighting

Thank the Emperor, I can't imagine what would happened if a special someone was writing that book...

Of course,

Brother Coa wrote:Thank the Emperor, I can't imagine what would happened if a special someone was writing that book...

What like Matt Ward? Pulease, forgetting that he writes gamebooks rather than novels for a second, the guy loves using those SoBs as his whipping bo... er, girl. In fact I've always seen the whole Bloodtide thing as some sort of petty revenge for that incident in Ben Counter's GK series. Funnily enough I've never seen any of the SoB fans that went ranting revenge after C:GK release mention the incident in the Grey Knight omnibus.

Greyish wrote:
What like Matt Ward? Pulease, forgetting that he writes gamebooks rather than novels for a second, the guy loves using those SoBs as his whipping bo... er, girl. In fact I've always seen the whole Bloodtide thing as some sort of petty revenge for that incident in Ben Counter's GK series. Funnily enough I've never seen any of the SoB fans that went ranting revenge after C:GK release mention the incident in the Grey Knight omnibus.

But that was ok because in a chaos of war many things happened ( like Guard firing on marine in few occasions ). Once the Sisters realized on who they are firing they rejoice and start fighting with them. In C:GK Grey Knight first kill all surviving Sisters, then they bath in their blood. All of that to avoid corruption? ( did I mentioned that Matt Ward said at the beginning of that codex that Grey Knight are in every way non-corruptible? )

Please, lets not derail the thread with more talk about the Bloodtide incident(which everyone is getting horribly wrong, bloodtide fluff gives a perfectly legitimate reason for blood wards for GKs)

Well, lexicanum says they can use the armour without any restrictions to their mobility and speed; implying the armours servos are good enough to do that. If I remember right on an advert for Space Marine Captain Titus weighs 700lbs in armour (might be wrong). Assuming he weighs 400lbs himself then the armour would be 300lbs. SOB armour probably half that. So Iam pretty sure a SOB could pick a commisar off the ground, but, a space marine is strong enough to smash his foot into the ground and have orks stagger from the shockwave. Thats what str 4 represents, same as a tyranid warrior which is a twelve foot monster.

4 pages later and Mary Kate and Ashley are still beating upon ceramite chestplates?

Yes, and punching dudes in the head so hard their skulls burst into flames. Like so:

=

Krieg soldier in the background there.