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Polonius wrote:I won in pittsburgh with Battlewagon orks (four wagons, full nob squad, ghaz, mek, two trukk boys, 20 lootas and three deffkoptas), but a lot of that had to do with my opponents not quite knowing what I can do on turn two...

I wish I could say it was skill, but I got lucky in my games: eldrad got pinned after his serpent exploded, I won the first turn roll against both leafblower and DE (with baron!), and had a great first shooting turn against DE (four downed vehicles).

I was fairly surprised also! You did well tho.. However, I will say your opponents have basically never played against Orks it felt like. The Eldar player used divination to make it easier for you.. Easiest way to beat battle wagons is flank on multiple sides to get side shots.. instead he just pilled up infront of you.

Anyone know what third place was at Norfolk? First was BA and I was 2nd with my IG, but I didn't catch who took third.

You've got this list a bit wrong. There was only 1 event held in Maine. I posted then somebody else posted. It went Salamander, GK, GK. Thanks.

Edit : removed the quote, I'm a tool, misread it.

Hmm I see only three listings for Maine

ME = Miane
Space Marines
Grey Knights
Grey Knights

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

Tomb King wrote:
I dont think any nids made it and did any daemons survive the grey knight horde's? lol

Daemons went from having a bunch of legitimate tournament builds to having, as far as I can tell, essentially two and a half. By legitimate, I mean builds that can hold their own and win against all comers as long as the dice doesn't go ridiculously against them. The two that I'm thinking of simply weren't all that common, previously.

Which sucks (since my bloodcrushers have largely been relegated to the display shelf, and even my soul grinders haven't seen the tabletop in ages).

It also doesn't help that what I'd consider to be legitimate tournament Daemon builds require large numbers of models that either don't exist or are finecast.

Kirasu wrote:

Polonius wrote:I won in pittsburgh with Battlewagon orks (four wagons, full nob squad, ghaz, mek, two trukk boys, 20 lootas and three deffkoptas), but a lot of that had to do with my opponents not quite knowing what I can do on turn two...

I wish I could say it was skill, but I got lucky in my games: eldrad got pinned after his serpent exploded, I won the first turn roll against both leafblower and DE (with baron!), and had a great first shooting turn against DE (four downed vehicles).

I was fairly surprised also! You did well tho.. However, I will say your opponents have basically never played against Orks it felt like. The Eldar player used divination to make it easier for you.. Easiest way to beat battle wagons is flank on multiple sides to get side shots.. instead he just pilled up infront of you.

To an extent I agree... but he was very psyched out by my Deff Koptas. I dont' know why, since he had first turn, but those were the first and main target, followed by my lootas.

Still, Koptas have to be dealt with...

FeindusMaximus wrote:Ard boys made me lose my desire to play this game

Just remember its designed to be a "nasty" tourney. Going into it, you should have had the grain of salt already. Otherwise, thats to bad you had a bad experience.

It must be me or I'm misinterpreting the data on the placement list. I only see 2 Witch Hunters (OR and OH). They placed 2nd and 3rd but the list shows 5 placings.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:It must be me or I'm misinterpreting the data on the placement list. I only see 2 Witch Hunters (OR and OH). They placed 2nd and 3rd but the list shows 5 placings.

Gah I need more coffee, good catch.

I made a mistake in my pivot table and did sum of placing instead of count of placing.

Here is the correct tally.


Grey Knights 24
Imperial Guard 12
Space Wolves 9
Blood Angels 8
Space Marines 7
Orks 6
Dark Eldar 6
Eldar 3
Witch Hunters 2
Tyranids 2
Dark Angels 2
Black Templars 2
Chaos Space Marines 1
Chaos Demons 1

There were alot of IG coming out of the woodworks that I havnt seen in awhile as well as a good amount placing. I assume it has to do with all the troops required for the missions.

Grimgob wrote:There were alot of IG coming out of the woodworks that I havnt seen in awhile as well as a good amount placing. I assume it has to do with all the troops required for the missions.

Well, maybe it was also a response to some GK builds? I know I have yet to lose to GK since the new 'dex hit, so maybe that might also be a factor. I could just be wrong, though.

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

Danny Internets wrote:

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

I swear people are starting to say things just to annoy the crap out of me? Did you not see me point out in this same thread like twice already that the post on Bols is not the orginal leafblower and I don't know who your source was but I never went 9 times first in Ard boys to win all my games. Its been what two years now and people are still talking about that slowed list? I also won what 4 other events around the country with the same list!

The list for hundreds times didn't need to go first and if you think it did you have a novice understanding of 40k at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

When did his ideas ever hold water though Allan?

Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

Centurian99 wrote:Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

I think I was more caught by nerdrage then anything else and didn't realize it

Darkwynn wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:Nick, I think you've been caught by the famous Hernandez sarcasm

I think I was more caught by nerdrage then anything else and didn't realize it

I am not sure who Allan was referring to but it caught me as well...

edit: grammar fail

Darkwynn wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

Byte wrote:

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

As others pointed out, the "original" leafblower list wasn't really optimized to begin with. Darkwynn having gone first in all 9 of his 'Ard Boyz games had a lot to do with him winning. That's not a knock to his skill as a player, however it's worth pointing out that taking an army that relies on going first, getting to go first every single time you play, and then performing well doesn't tell us very much.

I swear people are starting to say things just to annoy the crap out of me? Did you not see me point out in this same thread like twice already that the post on Bols is not the orginal leafblower and I don't know who your source was but I never went 9 times first in Ard boys to win all my games. Its been what two years now and people are still talking about that slowed list? I also won what 4 other events around the country with the same list!

The list for hundreds times didn't need to go first and if you think it did you have a novice understanding of 40k at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:There is a popular blog author that says that the Grey Knights aren't competitive because they lack melta.

When did his ideas ever hold water though Allan?

Understood that the "List" wasn't "the list", not trying to annoy. Nothing but respect.

However, Having ran the "not list" list with considerable success it can't go without mentioning the losing the INQ ally changes one of the most dynamic aspects(most appealing to me) of the "not list". I've mowed down down pod armies. Didn't even use the grass catcher.

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

Tomb King wrote:

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

I believe I know the model and have two! Does it have a cigar?

Grimgob wrote:Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

I thought they weren't competitive because everyone could just move their vehicles out of the way of the deffrollas? In fact, I think all of my dead chimeras under your rollas are proof of that.... no, wait sorry, it's the other thing...

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

Byte wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Agreed, leafblower is dead. At least according to the original design.

And sadly I lied, I wont be posting my list after some talk with some buddies and some consideration of the current meta. I dont want another leaf blower incident happen where everyone tried to copy that list. So my list will just formally be known as the 51st Cadian Mechanized Battalion lead by a guy I like to call Officer Creed, not to be mistaken for Commander Creed. Fluff wise Creed before he became the big boss. Have a bald model that looks kind of like him but younger and without the scars.

I believe I know the model and have two! Does it have a cigar?

No, the model itself is actually crouching as well. Its different to say the least, I am not sure where the head came from. As for the cigar heads. lol those all are with my flamers. The BBQ Brigade(1 unit but brigade just sounds better) is what I call them when I field them.

Grimgob wrote:Wasnt that a go to argument against Orks as being competitive also?

Best argument i've heard for battlewagon orks being uncompetitive: "all you have to do is blow up the battlewagons!" Hahahaha, oh man, that killed me. Right, just blow up 3-5 av14 vehicles with a 4+ in 1 to 2 turns. No problem!

Anyone who still reads certain blogs and believes them, desrves to get beat. Good players win with lists they fine tune themselves. The internet is a resource for gathering data. Experience, skill amd luck wins games.

I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

Isn't that true of any army. They all seem scary until you know how they work. Some will take more effort to beat than others, but you shouldn't be scared. In fact, if you are scared of toy soldiers, them being competitive is the least of your concerns

In all seriousness though, if an army remaining surprising/scary after multiple encounters is the benchmark for being competitive, then no army in the game is.

Tomb King wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Yes but yet again, your also talking about a codex that has trouble winning. I see Tau, Eldar, Chaos, Orks and Necrons that once you know how to beat them, they have a zero fear factor when you see them across the table from you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me just rephrase and say that I have an easier time winning against those armies than the rest.

Julnlecs wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:I really dont think orks are competitive. Thats my opinion though. Once you learn how to beat them, their scare factor goes away.

This happens with any army though. I have zero fear for daemons and havent lost to them in over a year. (WITHOUT GK lol) I was just brought into the game by a daemon player and he loves fate crusher a really mean list but I just annihilate it now and any other daemon build because I have seen it all and pretty much know that codex better then mine almost.

Yes but yet again, your also talking about a codex that has trouble winning. I see Tau, Eldar, Chaos, Orks and Necrons that once you know how to beat them, they have a zero fear factor when you see them across the table from you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me just rephrase and say that I have an easier time winning against those armies than the rest.

I have never lost with Tau. I have beat Daemons, Vulcan Marines, World Eaters. In addition, with the emerging amount of GK players Tau actually have come up some in the competitive column. Tau can destroy some top grey knight builds with regularity. I saw a tau army board wipe a very strong grey knights army this weekend. It was crazy!