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@Darkwynn
Without psyker defense they can struggle a bit, and yes, their troops are subpar. But IMO, they are still top tier. They can compete on a level playing field with Grey Knights, IG, Wolves and the rest. I know the list Dave_Fay is playing will catch on soon. It is brutal.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Good luck in finals though, hopefully we'll get to play one of these days.

@Mortetvie
Too bad you can't make finals. And you know me! I am always down for a rematch, I love a challenging game. The better the opponent, the more fun the game, typically.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Now Now lets not go down to their level of mindset.

Reecius wrote:@Darkwynn
Without psyker defense they can struggle a bit, and yes, their troops are subpar. But IMO, they are still top tier. They can compete on a level playing field with Grey Knights, IG, Wolves and the rest. I know the list Dave_Fay is playing will catch on soon. It is brutal.

And Grey Knights don't count! Haha, They are stupid, Mat Ward hates us, the game, or is an idiot to produce some of the crap he puts out.

Good luck in finals though, hopefully we'll get to play one of these days.

@Mortetvie
Too bad you can't make finals. And you know me! I am always down for a rematch, I love a challenging game. The better the opponent, the more fun the game, typically.

I saw Dave Fay's list in action yesterday and it is brutal. He took out one of the top players from GE Pasadena and his Purifier GK army like it wasn't even there. The last time I saw that happen to that army was when I took it on with my Salamanders and 15 TH/SS Termies and 3 Vindicators. Dave and I were talking and it is just crazy to have 30 missiles and 12 LC shots in an army, plus decent counter assault in the forms of a Marshall and Emperors Champ.

Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

BSent wrote:Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

Did you miss mine? Got 71 out of 72 points with DE

gardeth wrote:

BSent wrote:Grey Knights, Grey Knights everywhere.



Maybe it's just me, but seriously, what's the appeal in them?

And has anyone else noticed a lack in Space Wolves and Dark Eldar so far in these results?

Did you miss mine? Got 71 out of 72 points with DE

It's not that I missed yours, it's that I expected there to be more!

I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

This happens with almost every new army. I think Tyranids are the only new Codex where it hasn't happened, and DE were delayed in their entrance (thanks largely to the fact that everyone went and bought a whole new army since the old models were horrible), but in the recent past, BA, SW, and IG all had this same sort of huge splash shortly after release. It'll pass here, like it always does.

I think Dark Eldar won in Minnesota thanks to some collusion with the judging staff allowing a local to win.

Apparently being disproved by the rulebook and having your fake source of the ruling disproved as well isn't enough to change a judges mind when it means his local buddy won't win.

Not to mention the player used his combat drugs to help him fudge going first rolls.

Dave_Fay wrote:

Julnlecs wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Had to play leaf blower guard twice!!
full points round 1 against IG
minor loss with 2 bonus points round 2 against IG
Full points round 3 against CSM

So.Cal was

1st Adam Gati- eldar
2nd Dave Fey- Black Templar
3rd Kieth- Orks
4th (Me)- Orks

First time to the semis out of three years and I feel pretty good about fourth out of 40.

How was the tie breaker decided between 1st and 2nd who both had 69 battle points?

Adam and I tied for first.

TO used battle point modifiers for Tie breaker.

Adam and I Both had 9 and tied that.

2nd tie breaker was strength of schedule.

Even though I had to play the top players round 2 and 3, Adams opponents had a higher battle point total.

Thus he won the second breaker.

I also lost rock, paper sissors ;p

To be fair, we both played people with roughly equal battle points game 2 and 3; I played someone who had 23 battle points game 2 and game 3 I played someone with 47 so our opponent's were not that far off (maybe by 1 point each game) it just was bad luck on your part since your first round opponent didn't win any games and mine won after he lost to me =(.

But yes, a good game of rock paper scissors settled the matter haha, good show Dave =).

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

I see an overabundance of Grey Knights (in some locations) more a reflection of the small size of the army AND the easy paint job. I remember in late 3rd edition when Templars came out and it seemed everyone had Black Templar armies overnight. It was more a reflection of painting a Black and White army is quick and easy. It's the same with Grey Knights. It's an easy army to paint and on top of that you don't need very many models. This is a recipe for mass produced GK armies. The rules don't hurt either.

However, in my old age I am more and more drawn to the army that is less popular. I don't want to have one of many at a tournement. I also find it easier to win tournaments where 50% of the armies present come from one codex. BA can make a good mech/hybrid list that has the tools to defeat every GK list (paladins, henchmen, purifier, etc..). It might struggle against certain SW lists, but here in Chicago we used to have around 40% of our tourney lists be SW and now it seems most of the SW players have turned into GK players. The last tourney might have had 1 SW list and no DE. The GK lists were very common.

I think a savy veteran can take advantage of this herd metatility to bend the odds in thier favor.

@Tomb King
They aren't as bad as Daemons were for Fantasy (Again, Mat Ward and his skillz in action) but yeah, they are clearly more powerful than they need to be, and can do some things that literally, break the game. Bad form, Mr. Ward. Give us more books like Space Marines (best codex ever, IMO) and less Grey Knights and the hobby and game will be better for it.

@Adam Longwalker
Haha, you are right. Temper Tantrums won't help, but it does piss me off to see. It is either a clear attempt to sell models, incompetence or indifference. All of those are bad.

@Thread
I won't play GKs because they are so overdone right now. Like Darth said, because they are cheap, easy to paint, few models and good, they will be everywhere until the new hotness comes out.

For now, I just take great pleasure in smashing Grey Knights at every opportunity.

Congratz Matt on your third place finish our first round game was fun unfurtunately it was the only game i enjoyed all day.

GK are a relative easy army to build up. Aside from DCA , crusaders, and psyflemen dreads (hard to find and expensive); everything else has some sort of model or can easily be converted. Low model count also helps.

I hope Ward writes the thousand sons codex, they will get a power that if cast, the game ends on a 4+ and you win, the roll is modified by +1 for every psyker on the table.

Not many 'nids in top 3s.

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

Tyranids dont exist in matt wards world anymore. So the answer is zero!

mortetvie wrote:I hope Ward writes the thousand sons codex, they will get a power that if cast, the game ends on a 4+ and you win, the roll is modified by +1 for every psyker on the table.

I lol'd at this

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

Blackmoor wrote:

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

No List? That blows my mind... I have only experienced bad tourneys at 'ard boyz and I feel like 'tourney gamers' get a bad rap because people only know 'ard boyz. Sadly, the casuals who hate the attitude of competitive players are probably facing other casuals who simply play the game differently. I don't see how the TO could allow that stuff to go on with a straight face.

Heh, since I don't anticipate the prize support being stellar for the finals and IF they hold it locally to me, I plan on bringing a Tyranid Warrior spam list with 9 lictors or maybe a Thousand Sons CSM list. I really love nids, they were my first army in 1999 but I hate what GW has done with them =(.

Blackmoor wrote:

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

People forget 1-2 things during games. This is not what I am talking about, but Allan describes a situation of blatent and repeated rules breaking which starts before the game begins. This is what I wish to address.


Allan you are the problem, not the DE player. You allow him to play this way. You allow him to do this in your game so he is justified to do it in his other games with other people. You can call it being laid back, but it is enabling. Ask Neville Chamberlain about that.

#1 If he didn't have a list, then the game doesn't get played. He has to forfit. You need to make a stink about it. When you don't do that it just opens a can of worms for all sorts of things to go on. You need to stop him at every shaddy deal and call the head judge over immediately and LOUDLY. If this guy knows you are spot on with the rules and you will call him out on it, then he will not want to chance things during your game. Things will run smoothly.

As it was as the game went on, shannigans kept getting pulled which were more and more reprehensible. You started to question him, but not with the head judge there. Bring the judge over to your table each time until he stays or this guy gets kicked out.

If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

Blackmoor wrote:

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

These kinds of players are what give tournament players a bad name. They are the whole reason we are seen as WAAC jackasses. We all make mistakes here and there, but there are limits. I applaud you for being as tolerant as you were, because I have a hunch that most of the rest of us would have called a judge to stand at the table for the entire game and pointed out every mistake he made after about the 3rd or 4th one.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

I see an overabundance of Grey Knights (in some locations) more a reflection of the small size of the army AND the easy paint job.

I don't think this is the heart of the matter.

DarthDiggler wrote: The rules don't hurt either.

Here we go. Now we're talking. There was an abundance of Grey Knights at the Semis where I played. I know for a fact what the people played in the Prelims, and almost none of them were Grey Knights. In fact, one of the people playing in Prelims doesn't even play Grey Knights, but had a Grey Knight army for that day. The reason? He looked at the power of his friend's list and made a carbon copy of it. I played against Grey Knights in 2 of my 3 games, with danger of playing them again for the 3rd round because of where I was scoring.

puma713 wrote:
Here we go. Now we're talking. There was an abundance of Grey Knights at the Semis where I played. I know for a fact what the people played in the Prelims, and almost none of them were Grey Knights. In fact, one of the people playing in Prelims doesn't even play Grey Knights, but had a Grey Knight army for that day. The reason? He looked at the power of his friend's list and made a carbon copy of it. I played against Grey Knights in 2 of my 3 games, with danger of playing them again for the 3rd round because of where I was scoring.

A new GK player is still a weak player. He doesn't have expierence with his army vs. a wide array of opponents. These types of players can usually only do one thing with their army. Sit and shoot or move forward to assault. Throw in some unorthodox moves and they tend to struggle with going off the beaten path.

I saw this with SW when they first appeared and everyone was taking a counts as SW army. It was like clockwork. Long Fangs deploy in cover, T-Wolves spread out on the go line as far forward as possible. If you didn't deploy across from them, ready to take your beating, then they got confused and could be had.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Byte wrote:Not many 'nids in top 3s.

They were all eaten by the squats.

I too hate playing a codex everyone else is playing. This was the last game for my Grey Knights for a while, and I am either going with Demons or Dark Eldar.

I also had some shenanigans pulled on my in my last game and I wrote up what happened on my blog.
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/2011/09/ard-boyz-shenanigans.html

People forget 1-2 things during games. This is not what I am talking about, but Allan describes a situation of blatent and repeated rules breaking which starts before the game begins. This is what I wish to address.


Allan you are the problem, not the DE player. You allow him to play this way. You allow him to do this in your game so he is justified to do it in his other games with other people. You can call it being laid back, but it is enabling. Ask Neville Chamberlain about that.

#1 If he didn't have a list, then the game doesn't get played. He has to forfit. You need to make a stink about it. When you don't do that it just opens a can of worms for all sorts of things to go on. You need to stop him at every shaddy deal and call the head judge over immediately and LOUDLY. If this guy knows you are spot on with the rules and you will call him out on it, then he will not want to chance things during your game. Things will run smoothly.

As it was as the game went on, shannigans kept getting pulled which were more and more reprehensible. You started to question him, but not with the head judge there. Bring the judge over to your table each time until he stays or this guy gets kicked out.

If you did not do any of that during your game, then you forfit the right to talk about it afterwards. That's just so passive-aggressive. I hate it when a guy cheats at Ard Boyz and you are right, it happens in Ard Boyz because

1. The Prize
2. No painting
3. Free

Blatent cheating will continue as long as there are people who are to "laid back" to call someone out openly and in public during these events.

Wow, are you really comparing the actions of one person playing with plastic/metal/resin models to the actions of a man who killed millions in cold blood and sent the world into a war that resulted in the use of nuclear weapons?

That said, I agree that we shouldn't enable people to play outside the rules or even break them. I had one situation in my round 2 game that if I had been smart and not "nice" I could have called the TO over and probably won my game. But my opponent was no Adolf Hitler nor am I any Neville Chamberlain.

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Wow, are you really comparing the actions of one person playing with plastic/metal/resin models to the actions of a man who killed millions in cold blood and sent the world into a war that resulted in the use of nuclear weapons?

That said, I agree that we shouldn't enable people to play outside the rules or even break them. I had one situation in my round 2 game that if I had been smart and not "nice" I could have called the TO over and probably won my game. But my opponent was no Adolf Hitler nor am I any Neville Chamberlain.

Can you give me a common example of enabling that lets the abusive party continue their ways? I can give you a bunch, but they are personal experiences, not famous, and no one would understand the comparison except for me. Is there another one you can think of? I'm all ears.

Tomb King wrote:

isanti13 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:I think grey knights might negatively effect the hobby. So many of them and there numbers ever growing it might drive players to put down their armies for a little bit as it can get real boring playing against the same army at every tournament.

You were playing leafblower IG... Pot calling the kettle black much?

lol, I only had 1 leman russ and 1 manticore, no artillery pieces, and no infantry platoons. You should look up leafblower IG. My list was of my own design. I will post it later when i post my battle reports. Also hate to break it to you the original leaf blower list isn't even the top list anymore or even possible given the removal of allies.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

There are many brands of leafblowers, but they are all alpha strike need-first-turn-to-win lists