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Agreed, Mr. Grey! Although I will be interested in trying out an Unbound game one day, I can't imagine it being a normal game...

The norm at my store is 35 points, and when people want to get in a lot of fast games, 25 points at times. 50 is rarer, but is played... I've never seen higher in-person.

Laughing Man wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.

All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.

If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.

*cough*

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1800005

Which, interestingly enough, would be smaller than the Colossals if Privateer's metric (Conquest being wider than a Throne is tall) is right, as the Stompa is only 7 inches wide and the Throne's a good ten inches tall.

Looking at the models in the videos, they are clearly a good bit smaller than a Stompa or Baneblade, and comparably priced. Very nice models, though.

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:I dont play much Warmachine I have one box set and I have one box set of Hordes but After seeing this I am gong to have to get a colossal model, and it makes me wonder doese this mean that the Hordes game is going to get Colossal sised creatures?

Yes, yes they will - if you want the video, the concept art for the Troll Colossal is shown right at the end...

Hmmm I think I will get the menoth one, I have somewhere a menoth army.

And the warroom app is just great, no more cards and scribbling around. Ha, that is what smartphones were invented for

So much conversion material


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Laughing Man wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Davor wrote:Someone said about price comparssion on how GW would make PP go to shame if the priced the Collossus minis.

All I can say is if GW made a mini like this, how much do you think they would be selling it for? I am sure a $100 PP minis would cost about $175- $200. So while PP is getting up there with very expensive Minis, I am sure GW equivalent is just as much more expensive.

If GW made a mini like this, it would be in plastic. So just look at the Baneblade or Stompa (each 61.5 pounds) and compare them to the Battle Engines (60 pounds) and you tell me which company is cheaper.

*cough*

FW is not GW

RiTides wrote:Agreed, Mr. Grey! Although I will be interested in trying out an Unbound game one day, I can't imagine it being a normal game...

The norm at my store is 35 points, and when people want to get in a lot of fast games, 25 points at times. 50 is rarer, but is played... I've never seen higher in-person.

I've done 150 point games. It was silly. The stat cards took up so much room!



War-room will be most useful if i play again... I can just have the phone and flick between cards.

In a big game the Battle Engines just dont have enough drama though.

infinite_array wrote:Also: The way PP works, it'll be cool to see that the Colossi won't be game-breaking, must-have items that are super competitive, much like the Battle Engines. They'll also probably be great points-padding to get to Unbound games.

Yes, but why would you want to play Unbound anyway? It's absolutely terrible. If you want to just throw all your crap on the table, just play a normal game at 150 points with three casters. You'll still have the game-breaking amount of interactions, but at least you won't have to deal with the tedious turn/initiative order system that makes the game fall apart.

Omegus wrote:

infinite_array wrote:Also: The way PP works, it'll be cool to see that the Colossi won't be game-breaking, must-have items that are super competitive, much like the Battle Engines. They'll also probably be great points-padding to get to Unbound games.

Yes, but why would you want to play Unbound anyway? It's absolutely terrible. If you want to just throw all your crap on the table, just play a normal game at 150 points with three casters. You'll still have the game-breaking amount of interactions, but at least you won't have to deal with the tedious turn/initiative order system that makes the game fall apart.

Unbound is very flawed but having a normal game of warmachine at 150 points would suck wouldn't it? You'd be sitting there for an hour just writing down damage before you got your go. Then with all the synargies between units would make it OTT.

Unbound was a good effort to try and make a playable game at those sizes. It needs revising but I'm glad they tried...

BTW @infinite_array. I wouldn't call the battle engines competitive. I think they're way too fragile. Not much better than a lightjack. I think these Colossi are what the battle engines should have been. I really want them

If I understood correctly what the preview video said, and if it stay the same until July, Colossals will be usable both in low points game and larger points game. And I don't think they'll be power-breaking, cause technically, they are just two jacks fused together. So where one player would field two heavy jacks, the other would field just one.

I rather enjoyed the AD&D supplement that came out before Warmahordes. However, I will definitely not be buying this RPG. The Iron Kingdoms are fun when added to a larger existing campaign world, not so much by themselves, and I absolutely hate the combat system Warmachine and Hordes uses. Though If I ever run a GK army I'll definitely be looking to the Colossals for my Dreadknights. I bet the Menoth Colossals would make great Ad-Mech Knights.

Lordhat wrote:I rather enjoyed the AD&D supplement that came out before Warmahordes. However, I will definitely not be buying this RPG. The Iron Kingdoms are fun when added to a larger existing campaign world, not so much by themselves, and I absolutely hate the combat system Warmachine and Hordes uses.

:( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare

Well to be fair, when we were running AD&D 2nd, whenever we found an expansion or campaign setting we liked, we just slapped it onto our existing world. Nothing like being able to travel from Athas, to the Red Steel Coast, to the Iron Kingdoms, to Ravenloft in the course of a campaign.

obsidianaura wrote:BTW @infinite_array. I wouldn't call the battle engines competitive. I think they're way too fragile. Not much better than a lightjack. I think these Colossi are what the battle engines should have been. I really want them

I would agree with this. Some of the battle engines can be good in specific lists (stormstrider in eHaley's tier where they get the power tokens they will otherwise never get; celestial fulcrum in a Cassius list to hide the big tree, etc.), but overall they are not exactly a top choice. I think they went overboard in trying to balance them with their point cost. They are not worth as much as a heavy jack, and certainly not as much as a heavy warbeast.

Comparing them to light warjacks is appropriate, and IMO they should have been costed as such. 6-7 points would be just fine for most of the engines.

obsidianaura wrote::( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare

While I'm starting to like Malifaux more, WM has a very tight combat system, and the best part about their fiction is their world (I find their plot anywhere from boring, to contrived, to poorly executed, with the occasional inconsistency).

What I'm curious about is the 2d6 system. It just doesn't seem like it would work. The same way 40k's 1d6 system breaks down at small point levels (combat patrol, or whatever that was called, was terribly unbalanced, simply because it was too random), I feel like WM's 2d6 would break down with fewer models. Well, specifically, few models, all of which are important. Your player character matters a lot more, in the long run, than your arc node.

The way they talk about it, it sounds like they're going the D&D 4 route of "everyone's awesome and magic!" which I'm highly skeptical of...

Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.

Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).

Omegus wrote:Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.

Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).

Welcome to RPG settings. How many copies can I put in your bag?

Omegus wrote:Their setting is interesting enough, but nothing spectacular or unique as far as steampunk/Victorian fantasy is concerned.

Their fluff is pretty terrible overall. As the above posted said, the plot is frequently boring or contrived, and honestly the fluff writing itself leaves much to be desired (especially the combat scenes, which read like someone's half-assed attempt to make a fluffy battle report).

That's an interesting take on it, I'll be sure to go back and let all the people that I sold rule/expansion books to, just to read. And all the former 40k players that went so far out of their way to pick up the out of print IK RPG books, becuase they got so into the setting. They may not be GRRM, but PP is far and away better than most companies out there when it comes to their setting and lore, and their short story style fluff pieces are better than most of the D&D novels out there, certainly better than most of the 40k novels.

My only 2 complaints are that nobody ever really dies, 6 years of constant warfare with the warcasters leading form the front and the only one that died came back as undead for her epic version. My other issue is that the game is skirmish based, but the stories are always describing hundreds or thousands of soldiers per side. It plays terribly as a large battle game, but most of the stories try to paint that picture. People had the same complaints about LotR, they wanted to do helm's Deep or Pelenor Fields battles, but the game system just didn't work with a hundred figs+ per side.

As cool as these Colossals are, I'd love to see a 10mm or 15mm Company-level version of the game even more. Keep the super-heavies and the Gundams to small scale please, 28mm is for skirmishes and small platoons.

spiralingcadaver wrote:

obsidianaura wrote::( I quite like it. Much more so than 40k. Still learning how D&D combat works though so cant compare

While I'm starting to like Malifaux more, WM has a very tight combat system, and the best part about their fiction is their world (I find their plot anywhere from boring, to contrived, to poorly executed, with the occasional inconsistency).

What I'm curious about is the 2d6 system. It just doesn't seem like it would work. The same way 40k's 1d6 system breaks down at small point levels (combat patrol, or whatever that was called, was terribly unbalanced, simply because it was too random), I feel like WM's 2d6 would break down with fewer models. Well, specifically, few models, all of which are important. Your player character matters a lot more, in the long run, than your arc node.

The way they talk about it, it sounds like they're going the D&D 4 route of "everyone's awesome and magic!" which I'm highly skeptical of...

I've always thought that using 2 dice over 1 dice reduces randomness a little, you can predict your average roll of 7ish. Isn't something like a d20 completely random because any result its as likely as any other?

I've found the background to be pretty interesting, now that I've gotten into it more... it did feel like coming in halfway through a story, but I guess that's also because the story is actually advancing and not just being repeated

I considered getting all the old books to read up on background, and might snag an auction for such if it's ever all in one place for Hordes...

obsidianaura wrote:
I've always thought that using 2 dice over 1 dice reduces randomness a little, you can predict your average roll of 7ish. Isn't something like a d20 completely random because any result its as likely as any other?

Welcome to the bell curve. Results will tend to favour the average value whereas extremes on either end are far less likely to occur. On a d20 each facing of the die has 1/20 chance of appearing so yes, a critical hit is just as likely as a critical miss. Add in modifiers and things get more tricky but that's the basics of it.

Yeah, I've realized this, too- and it's why PP will have to continue to use the 2d6 system as opposed to swtiching to a d20 or the like...

Slows down the game for huge games, but the game is so fast as usual point levels that it's not a problem.

I just realized that technically a critical miss is just as likely as a critial hit on 2d6 too, but both results are less likely than that of an average result..

Anyways the benefit of using 2d6 is that it allows you to plan your turns and manage your luck more effectively. This is part of what makes WMH such a competitive ruleset.