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foolishmortal wrote:

Happyjew wrote:And then per the rules (I'm assuming you rolled the 3 dice per your wargear), you then drop the highest (in this case "1") and are left with, oh my, double 1's.

If this is the case than why does the Perils of the Warp rule refer to double 1s and/or 6s? If all that is looked at is the final result of 2 or 12, then why does the rule refer to double 1s or 6s?

I ask because great weight has been given by the NO position to the distinction between d6 + d6 and 2d6. The perils of the warp rule seems show that a 2d6 result is made up of d6 + d6. If that is the case then I would like clarification on why the chronometron cannot be used to re-roll one of them. I see why it cannot be used to re-roll both of them. The chronometron rule does not grant specific permission to do so (IMO). What I don't see is a RAW restriction on re-rolling a d6 roll.

the fact that two d6s are rolled does not change the fact that the rolls are entirely different things, and A d6 roll does not mean "whenever you roll anything with a d6 in it." it means a roll that is comprised of only 1 single d6.

rigeld2 wrote:You obviously haven't read the entire thread. I was arguing very politely, even though I was essentially repeating myself. And all I got in return was a refusal to accept the facts.

I have read the entire thread. I posted on this thread before you. I did not say that you (rigeld2) did not argue politely. I did not say that nem dave always argued with logic and rules. I spoke of general trends in the discussion. In general, I like you (rigeld2) and your general style. I have found you to be clear thinker and polite. You (rigeld2) tend to argue the rules and state a logical case. You (rigeld2) are human, thus you are either in possession of free will or something so ineffable as to be identical for our purposes. This is a good thing (IMO) but it does mean that even perfect knowledge of past actions is not a guarantee of future performance. IMO, again, this is also a good thing.

When you say "You obviously haven't read the entire thread" I see 'you clearly disagree with me but rather than debate the point or let it pass, I will make a blanket dismissal of your entire argument'.

rigeld2 wrote:The Eldar abilities state to look at the 2 highest (or lowest) dice when considering success and Perils.

Yes, and before you look at the final result (2-12) of that 2d6 roll, it seems you must also consider each die individually for the purposes of perils of the warp. It is at this stage that I believe Nem Dave would want to use the chronometron.

rigeld2 wrote:Perhaps you should read the entire thread before asking for clarification. It's at the top of the 5th page.

Again, this is a rude dismissal. I did read the top of the fifth page. It raised more questions for me than it answered. Case in point, is a modified d6 roll re-rollable with a chronometron? Is d6+1 so different from a d6 roll as to no longer fall under the chronometron rules?

rigeld2 wrote: And are getting nothing but fingers in ears "nonononononono". Or that's what it seems like.

I can see how one might see this. If you want to dismiss my questions out of hand, I would understand that. I wouldn't appreciate it, but I would understand it.
If you want to ignore my posts, I would understand that. Honestly, I find that to be the best policy when confronted with the truly irrational.

I would prefer to examine the RAW for a consistent interpretation. Sometimes I have the time and inclination to do so rigorously. I try to do so carefully, but I am human, thus sometimes emotional and fallible. I apologize if this has been the case here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:Page 2, and the Space Wolf FAQ, say that a 2d6 roll is a different thing from a d6 roll, and you cannot consider the two component dice in a 2d6 roll separately.

The space wolves faq says
"Q. Does a Wolf Standard allow Leadership test results
to be re-rolled? (p62)
A. No, as it is impossible to roll a ‘1’ on 2D6 – when
making a 2D6 result you must count both dice as a
single roll, not address them individually."

I agree that the result of the leadership test can never be 1.
I disagree with the assumption that the above language implies that the result of a 2 on a leadership test is not because of two 1s on d6s.

p2 BRB says "If you re-roIl a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."
I don't believe the PRO position is trying to re-roll 2d6. They are trying to re-roll one of the d6 component dice.

Yes, that is what the pro position wants to do.

The quote you posted says that they cannot do that.

p2 BRB says "If you re-roIl a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."
I don't believe the PRO position is trying to re-roll 2d6. They are trying to re-roll one of the d6 component dice.

The rules for the Chronometron do not contain an explicit statement that you may re-roll one die from a 2d6 roll.

From what I understand (based on what was posted in this thread), the chronometron's wording is "may re-roll any of the units d6 rolls.". This tells us that the roll must be a d6 roll, i.e. 1d6. This is very very specific on the type of roll that it affects. Anytime you roll multiple dice and add the result together, you are not making a d6 roll, you are making an Xd6 roll (where X>1).

For example, for characteristic tests (except Ld), we are told to "roll a D6". For rolling to hit we are told to "roll a d6 for each [attack]." For rolling to wound, we are told to "roll a D6." Etc. Each one of these is a D6 roll.

For Ld, we are told to "roll 2D6 (two dice added together, as explained earlier)." For scatter we are told to "roll the scatter dice and 2d6 to see where the [marker] lands." Both of these are a 2d6 roll. NOT a D6 roll.

foolishmortal wrote:When you say "You obviously haven't read the entire thread" I see 'you clearly disagree with me but rather than debate the point or let it pass, I will make a blanket dismissal of your entire argument'.

Yes, because clearly that's what I did.

rigeld2 wrote:The Eldar abilities state to look at the 2 highest (or lowest) dice when considering success and Perils.

Yes, and before you look at the final result (2-12) of that 2d6 roll, it seems you must also consider each die individually for the purposes of perils of the warp. It is at this stage that I believe Nem Dave would want to use the chronometron.

Here's this entire thread in a nutshell:

Side A:
- Making a 2D6 roll is different than making 2x D6 rolls; the 2D6 roll is meant to carry a value in the range of 2 and 12, as opposed to making 2x D6 rolls, which is simply two rolls that each carry a value in the range of 1 and 6.
- Rolling multiple D6s at the same time is just to speed up the game, such as when multiple Marines shoot bolters. Technically each D6 should be rolled individually, but doing that would make 40k be boring to play, so nobody does this, at the suggestion of the BGB and common sense.
- Page 2 of the BGB states that if you are allowed to re-roll 2D6, then both dice rolled must be re-rolled. You cannot re-roll only one of the two dice from a 2D6 roll, unless explicitly stated so. This is where the cognitive dissonance takes place, because:

Side B:
- claims that the Chronometron allows you to re-roll one of the two dice in a 2D6 roll, because the wording of the Chronometron says that you may re-roll a D6.
- claims that a 2D6 = 2x D6

My Hardcore Rules Lawyering:
The wording of the Chronometron is NOT specific enough to meet the requirements to the aforementioned exception expressed on page 2 of the BGB. While the Chronometron does say that you can re-roll a D6, it does not explicitly state that you may re-roll a D6 that is part of a 2D6 roll. Since the premise that a 2D6 roll =/= 2x D6 rolls, the Chronometron cannot be used on instances of 2D6

again, can anyone point out in the entirety of warhammer any way or place where you can reroll a single die in a multi-D6 roll?

I personally think that the Chronometron entry IS specific enough. However, I'd like to see a previous example with which to establish a baseline level of specificity.

Katfish! wrote:again, can anyone point out in the entirety of warhammer any way or place where you can reroll a single die in a multi-D6 roll?

I personally think that the Chronometron entry IS specific enough. However, I'd like to see a previous example with which to establish a baseline level of specificity.

I just did it, at previous page.

Luide wrote:
So again, here's example what "specific" means:
Brb pg 40,
Sweeping advance
"Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage"

Now, lets take example of rule saving one from Sweeping advance,
ATSKNF, page 21 GK codex
"If Grey Knights are caught by a sweeping advance, they are not destroyed and will instead continue to fight normally..."

When rulebook says rule A can only be overruled if specified, it means that rule B MUST specifically (as per definition of the word) refer to rule A. And because Chronometron doesn't have any language that mentions rolling more than 1 d6, you're not allowed to use it to re-roll portion of 2d6 or 3d6 roll (as per pg 2).

Mannahnin wrote:

p2 BRB says "If you re-roIl a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."
I don't believe the PRO position is trying to re-roll 2d6. They are trying to re-roll one of the d6 component dice.

The rules for the Chronometron do not contain an explicit statement that you may re-roll one die from a 2d6 roll.

Foolishmortal has hit the nail on the head why Wolf Standard FAQ does not apply to this discussion.

That leaves the only argument over P2 of the BRB. I will use an example to show how chronometron IS specific. (specific enough is someones opinion and not part of RAW)

You say "I am going to buy two red apples unless you explicitly specify otherwise".
I say, "You may buy one red apple."

Would you claim I wasn't clear or specific enough about what you can buy? I specified the number of apples you may buy explicitly.

What you're expecting would be the equivalent of requiring me to say "You may buy one red apple if you were going to buy three, and if you were going to buy four, and if the store was close to you, and if you got there by motorbike." All these things are "more specific". But the only requirement from p.2 is "specify otherwise". Chronometron does this by saying you may re-roll "one D6."

For clarity, I want an answer to this using RAW. Fuzzying up the meaning of "specific" is not RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

azazel the cat wrote:
The wording of the Chronometron is NOT specific enough to meet the requirements..

This is what you and many other are arguing. "Not specific enough". You don't get to arbitrarily decide what must be specified. The chronometron rule explicitly specifies only one D6 may be re-rolled. Any other requirement to be "more specific" is imagined and not in RAW.

Your apple analogy doesn't work, because it lacks any comparison to the proper framework, and demonstrates that you are still operating under the falsehood that 2D6 = 2x 1D6.

However, this is not the case.

If you want a proper analogy, it should be more like this:

You have $1 and want to buy a Twinkie, but Twinkies are sold in 2-packs and cost $2 per pack. Unless you can specifically find a single Twinkie, you have to pay for the 2-pack.
Since you cannot afford the 2-pack, you cannot have a Twinkie.


What you must remember is that 40k operates under a permissive ruleset. This means that you may not perform any action unless specified. That is, the answer to ever single question about "can I...?" is "no", unless there is a specific permission to do so.

While the Chronometron allows you to re-roll a D6, the BRB states that re-rolls requiring 2D6 must be both-or-nothing unless specified otherwise. That is, the rule would have to explicitly state that you may re-roll a single die that is part of a 2D6 roll. Otherwise, the re-roll is relegated to the regular rules for 2D6 re-rolls, which is both-or-nothing.





Also, I'm gonna nail this coffin shut here:

"A model with a chronometron can re-roll one of his D6 rolls each phase." Necron codex, pg. 85

It does not say he may re-roll a D6. It says he may re-roll one of his D6 rolls. These semantics are supremely important here.

Is a Leadership test a D6 roll? No. It is a 2D6 roll. Because again 2D6 =/= 2x D6 rolls.

It is like saying you may re-take one of your school exams. That does not mean that you may re-do only a single page of one of your exams; it means you may re-do the entire exam.

EDIT: clarity!

azazel the cat wrote:Your apple analogy doesn't work, because it lacks any comparison to the proper framework, and demonstrates that you are still operating under the falsehood that 2D6 = 2x 1D6.

Your belief that 2D6 is not 2 x 1D6. This has not been proven by RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My example is showing that Chronometron "specifies otherwise". You don't refute this.

Your example is trying to show that 2D6 is a single roll and not two 1D6 rolls. This is not RAW.

Perhaps someone can think of a case that might clarify this. Any rules regarding "reroll 1's" where multiple dice are rolled. Reroll the highest, or other example where 1 dice is effected after two dice are rolled would show dice can be considered individually after rolling multiples.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Your apple analogy doesn't work, because it lacks any comparison to the proper framework, and demonstrates that you are still operating under the falsehood that 2D6 = 2x 1D6.

Your belief that 2D6 is not 2 x 1D6. This has not been proven by RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My example is showing that Chronometron "specifies otherwise". You don't refute this.

Your example is trying to show that 2D6 is a single roll and not two 1D6 rolls. This is not RAW.

Perhaps someone can think of a case that might clarify this. Any rules regarding "reroll 1's" where two dice are rolled. Reroll the highest, or other example where 1 dice is effected after two dice are rolled would show that 2D6 is two rolls of 1D6.

must admit i kinda skipped from page one to this page as everyone seemed to be arguing the same thing over and over but i thought i'd pose a question that should (in theory at least) answer the issue:


can someone post a RAW argument for a dice roll of multiple D6 being comprised of single D6 rolls added together?

can someone post a RAW argument that a "D6" roll can only ever include 1d6?



if there is any question of doubt to either of the statements then either you have not used RAW, quotes from specific codeci and the BRB or the arguement is invalid.

if neither arguement can be settled this way then i'd chop it up to being an obscure rule that needs to be house ruled before a game and negate the need for a 5+ page debate

mrspadge wrote:
must admit i kinda skipped from page one to this page as everyone seemed to be arguing the same thing over and over but i thought i'd pose a question that should (in theory at least) answer the issue:


can someone post a RAW argument for a dice roll of multiple D6 being comprised of single D6 rolls added together?

p2 from BRB "..so a 2D6 roll is two dice rolled and added together...". 2D6 = two 1D6 rolls, add them together.

mrspadge wrote:
can someone post a RAW argument that a "D6" roll can only ever include 1d6?

No, there has been nothing posted.

Yep, ND is definitely trolling.

2D6 is not a 2x1D6 roll, as explicitly statd in the rulebook. THis is RAW

A chronometron does not specify that it can reroll one of a 2D6 roll, so it cannot according ot the rules for XD6 rolls. This is RAW

You are 100% wrong on every account.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yep, ND is definitely trolling.

2D6 is not a 2x1D6 roll, as explicitly statd in the rulebook. THis is RAW

A chronometron does not specify that it can reroll one of a 2D6 roll, so it cannot according ot the rules for XD6 rolls. This is RAW

You are 100% wrong on every account.

Stating your opinion does not make it RAW. You fail to support your statements in any way.

Yeah, if 2D6 = 2x D6, then that would mean two marines can team up to hit a target that requires a 6. But they can't. It's that simple.

That's what this entire argument boils down to. Nemesor Dave believes that 2D6 = 2x D6

azazel the cat wrote:Yeah, if 2D6 = 2x D6, then that would mean two marines can team up to hit a target that requires a 6. But they can't. It's that simple.

That's what this entire argument boils down to. Nemesor Dave believes that 2D6 = 2x D6

Your marines comment is a "straw man" argument and completely misrepresents my position.

You hold two dice in your hand and roll them both. You may pick up only one, and re-roll it. It's not that hard to believe.

I;'m not stating my opinion - i'm restating the rules that have been proven, over and over, in this thread

You dont havea single argument that hasnt been debunked, over and over and over. There is little point in proving you wrong for the 20th time as each time you plug your fingers in your ears and pretend it hasnt happened.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I;'m not stating my opinion - i'm restating the rules that have been proven, over and over, in this thread

You dont havea single argument that hasnt been debunked, over and over and over. There is little point in proving you wrong for the 20th time as each time you plug your fingers in your ears and pretend it hasnt happened.

You're not restating any rules. Your post does not contain a quote to a single rule.

I have refuted your only argument (p2 of the BRB) where you decided that Chronometron is "not specific enough" for you. Yet It is quite "specific" about the number of dice to roll that is different from the original roll. You may still disagree, however your single argument has been refuted.

Can you even show a single example where a rule says as you're demanding "you may re-roll one D6 out of 2D6, 3D6, or 4D6"?

I was restating the rules. Note the word "quote" did not appear there? Comprehension issue again I guess.

Stop making up quotes as well.

Oh, and "refute" has a specific meaning - something you have utterly and totally failed to meet. Try again.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I was restating the rules. Note the word "quote" did not appear there? Comprehension issue again I guess.

Stop making up quotes as well.

Oh, and "refute" has a specific meaning - something you have utterly and totally failed to meet. Try again.

When there is a question that proves the opposite of what you are trying to claim, perhaps that is why you avoid the question.

Maybe you didn't notice: Can you even show a single example where a rule says as you're demanding "you may re-roll one D6 out of 2D6, 3D6, or 4D6"?

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

p2 BRB says "If you re-roIl a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise."
I don't believe the PRO position is trying to re-roll 2d6. They are trying to re-roll one of the d6 component dice.

The rules for the Chronometron do not contain an explicit statement that you may re-roll one die from a 2d6 roll.

Foolishmortal has hit the nail on the head why Wolf Standard FAQ does not apply to this discussion.

That leaves the only argument over P2 of the BRB. I will use an example to show how chronometron IS specific. (specific enough is someones opinion and not part of RAW)

You say "I am going to buy two red apples unless you explicitly specify otherwise".
I say, "You may buy one red apple."

Would you claim I wasn't clear or specific enough about what you can buy? I specified the number of apples you may buy explicitly.

No, you didn't. You didn't set a limit on apples to buy. Your statement changed *nothing* about what the person was going to buy already. It is not specific.

IF you tell me to buy one red apple, and I buy 10, have I met your requirements?

What you're expecting would be the equivalent of requiring me to say "You may buy one red apple if you were going to buy three, and if you were going to buy four, and if the store was close to you, and if you got there by motorbike." All these things are "more specific". But the only requirement from p.2 is "specify otherwise". Chronometron does this by saying you may re-roll "one D6."

No, but thanks for taking the argument out into the land of nowhere.
It would be the equivalent if saying "You may buy one red apple instead of the two or more you were going to buy."
Chrono says you may re-roll one d6 roll. A 2d6 roll is explicitly not 2 1d6 rolls, as we've proven - repeatedly.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

mrspadge wrote:
can someone post a RAW argument that a "D6" roll can only ever include 1d6?

No, there has been nothing posted.

Really? Hmmm... I'd swear there was...

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:If I didn't have a 2 year old passed out in my lap with my brb in the other room I'd demonstrate.

p.8 roll a D6 for a characteristic test. Probably countless other places. I'd agree 1D6 = D6.

Oh, there it is.

rigeld2 wrote:
Chrono says you may re-roll one d6 roll. A 2d6 roll is explicitly not 2 1d6 rolls, as we've proven - repeatedly.

People keep claiming this - what proves a 2d6 roll is not two 1D6 rolls?

rigeld2 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

mrspadge wrote:
can someone post a RAW argument that a "D6" roll can only ever include 1d6?

No, there has been nothing posted.

Really? Hmmm... I'd swear there was...

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:If I didn't have a 2 year old passed out in my lap with my brb in the other room I'd demonstrate.

p.8 roll a D6 for a characteristic test. Probably countless other places. I'd agree 1D6 = D6.

Oh, there it is.

My mistake on this one on what he was asking. Yes, the wording one "D6 roll" can only be interpreted as meaning re-roll 1 dice.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

You say "I am going to buy two red apples unless you explicitly specify otherwise".
I say, "You may buy one red apple."

Would you claim I wasn't clear or specific enough about what you can buy? I specified the number of apples you may buy explicitly.

No, you didn't. You didn't set a limit on apples to buy. Your statement changed *nothing* about what the person was going to buy already. It is not specific.

IF you tell me to buy one red apple, and I buy 10, have I met your requirements?
.

1) You're required to roll two dice.
2) You must re-roll both, unless you have specific permission to re-roll a different number of dice.
3) You have permission to re-roll one dice.

This isn't specific? You're confused, that perhaps I meant you re-roll 10 dice?

It isnt specific TO THE SITUATION IN HAND, hence your constant misunderstanding of the word "specific" used in this context.

You are told that, unless your rule specifically states otherwise, you cannot reroll 1 of an XD6 roll. That means that you need to show your rule allows you to speciifcally reroll 1 of an XD6 roll, which requires the multiple-dice to be specifically mentioned - otherwise it is just a general rule and not specific

This has been gone over and over and over in this thread, phrased a dozen different ways, and you have yet to refute a single item. Your claim that "this is specific!!!!!" has been refuted. Your claim that a 2D6 roll is actually a 1D6 + 1D6 roll has been refuted.

You have nothing left. You have no arguments that have withstood anything more than a cursory dismissal. You are now simply hoping to break RAW so your necrons are more powerful.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It isnt specific TO THE SITUATION IN HAND, hence your constant misunderstanding of the word "specific" used in this context.

You are told that, unless your rule specifically states otherwise, you cannot reroll 1 of an XD6 roll. That means that you need to show your rule allows you to speciifcally reroll 1 of an XD6 roll, which requires the multiple-dice to be specifically mentioned - otherwise it is just a general rule and not specific

This has been gone over and over and over in this thread, phrased a dozen different ways, and you have yet to refute a single item. Your claim that "this is specific!!!!!" has been refuted. Your claim that a 2D6 roll is actually a 1D6 + 1D6 roll has been refuted.

You have nothing left. You have no arguments that have withstood anything more than a cursory dismissal. You are now simply hoping to break RAW so your necrons are more powerful.

The p2. BRB statement is not making any comment on when you're allowed to re-roll or not. It is making a comment about how many dice you can re-roll when a re-roll is granted.

Example of "Not specific :"
1) A rule that says you may re-roll rolls to penetrate.
2) You shoot meltagun at a vehicle within 6".

Here it is not specified, so you must re-roll 2D6. See - Not Specific.

Example of "Specific".
1) You roll 2D6 for a leadership test.
2) Chronometron allows you to re-roll one D6.

Here is specific, you may only re-roll 1D6, not both. It is explicitly specific.

Did I miss somewhere your answer to 'Can you even show a single example where a rule says as you're demanding "you may re-roll one D6 out of 2D6, 3D6, or 4D6"'?

One D6 *of a multiple D6 roll* would be specific.

Otherwise it is about as generic a reroll as you can possibly get -t he other examples you gave are actually more specific than the chronometron.

General: You may reroll 1D6

Specific: If you want to reroll part of a 2D6 roll, you must specify you can

General: I can try to rescue a unit by passing a 5+ roll at the end of the phase
Specific: if you want to rescue the unit from SA your rule must specify that it can owrk against SA

Do I have to show an example, or can i just (as has already been done) show that the chrono doesnt meet the requirements of the rule? Yep, I can do that. Check. Apparently your false dichotomy is just that.

FOr example - if ATSKNF not exist it wouldnt suddenly mean EL worked against Sweeping Advance. Again, this is really basic logic here....

nosferatu1001 wrote:One D6 *of a multiple D6 roll* would be specific.

Otherwise it is about as generic a reroll as you can possibly get -t he other examples you gave are actually more specific than the chronometron.

General: You may reroll 1D6

Specific: If you want to reroll part of a 2D6 roll, you must specify you can

General: I can try to rescue a unit by passing a 5+ roll at the end of the phase
Specific: if you want to rescue the unit from SA your rule must specify that it can owrk against SA

Do I have to show an example, or can i just (as has already been done) show that the chrono doesnt meet the requirements of the rule? Yep, I can do that. Check. Apparently your false dichotomy is just that.

FOr example - if ATSKNF not exist it wouldnt suddenly mean EL worked against Sweeping Advance. Again, this is really basic logic here....

You keep trying to bring Sweeping Advance into this but they are not the same.

Sweeping Advance requires a rule to specifically exempt your unit from the effects of sweeping advance. The exemption rule must mention "Sweeping Advance" such as ATSKNF. I never disagreed with this.

p. 2 - Any re-rolls require you to re-roll all dice, unless a rule specifically allows you to reroll a different number of dice like Chronometron where it states "re-roll one".

Do you have any examples of a rule that says "one D6 *of a multiple D6 roll*"? The answer is clearly no.

Sweeping Advance - "Unless otherwise specified, no save or special rule can rescue the unit at this stage". "At this stage" requires a rule to mention it can save a unit during sweeping advance. (not at the end of the phase like EL).

ReRolls - "If you re-roll a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise." The number of dice to reroll must be specified, in this case "one"!

Edit for clarity

Nemesor Dave wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Chrono says you may re-roll one d6 roll. A 2d6 roll is explicitly not 2 1d6 rolls, as we've proven - repeatedly.

People keep claiming this - what proves a 2d6 roll is not two 1D6 rolls?

BRB pg2 wrote:
If you re-roll a 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you
must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of
them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll
explicitly specifies otherwise.

You may also be told to roll a number of dice in one
go, which is written as 2D6, 3D6, and so on

Interestingly, RAW, if there's a 4d6 roll you can re-roll only one die because it doesn't say "etc." or anything like that. Heh.

a d6 roll is explicitly different from a 2d6 roll. A d6 roll is a specific thing, a 2d6 roll is another specific thing.

1) You're required to roll two dice.
2) You must re-roll both, unless you have specific permission to re-roll a different number of dice.
3) You have permission to re-roll one dice.

This isn't specific? You're confused, that perhaps I meant you re-roll 10 dice?

You're misstating 2. You must re-roll both unless you have explicit specific permission otherwise. Does the Chrono mention, explicitly, re-rolling one out of a set?

It requires you to reroll all dice of a multiple D6 roll, unless the rule specifically says otherwise - to whit you have to be able to reroll one dice from a multiple D6 roll in your rule

Does chrono say that? No! Guess that means it cannot, because it does not specify that it can. Shucks.

You have a general allowance: you may reroll a single D6 roll

This is not the same as a 2D6 (+) roll, as proven by the rules - and which you pretend doesnt exist. This is also not the same as being allowed to reroll part of a 2D6 (+) roll, because it does not specify that it can reroll part of a 2D6 (+) roll

And, again - examples are not required to prove you wrong, as has been proven over these last 6 pages. The example of SA was to show you that the non-existence of an example of a rule meeting the specification requirements of another rule (ATSKNF as an example of a rule specifying it works against SA) doesnt suddenly make another rule meet the specification requirements (chronometron not meeting the specification requirement to reroll a 2D6 (+) roll) and so doesnt actually do your argument any benefits. At best it is neutral - it doesnt affect either side.

You just have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term "specific" and how it applies to rulesets, and until you realise that you will always be in the wrong in discussions like this.