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Ekoi wrote:

Emerett wrote:Spend your money on WarmaHordes instead, the models are always pristine.

Now now, don't be that guy.

There is always one. . .

And this is the reason I call it Failcast still. If my upcomming tyranid army was not mostly failcast I would not fret BUT since it is I will be CQing them for GW and will most deffintly be getting replacements.

No, I stopped taking pics after replacement 3. No point, CS pretty much take me at my word (and I don't take the piss - any faults I report are genuine). Didn't send any back, but didn't get full sets each time, just what I wasn't happy with.

To be fair, this final replacement has more bubbles than the one before, BUT they're in MUCH easier to fix places. I wanted something where I know any reason it's not a GD level model (clean!) is my own damn fault, not because I've had to cobble a fix on a hard to duplicate surface.

Hmm... Ok Because I've had full replacements.

Here's what i don't get, why does GW even make finecast? No one (by that i mean the people that buys thier product) likes it, it costs a lot more reatil (i don't lnow if it costs more to make), and then they probley get a ton of returns on just finecast alone. On top of all that it's destroying GWs public image (or whatever they have left of it). You would think that GW would open thier eyes and go to big forums like Dakka to see what they could change to make thier company better! /end of banter

Using feedback from forums to run a company is like poking your eyes out with a red hot poker and entering a marksmanship competition on the idea of making perfect shots using coaching from the audience.

That said, I look forward to seeing Winterdyne's final replacement.
Have you considered what you're going to do with the rest of them?

Yup, Kanluwen is completely correct. You don't run a Company by popular consent or by committee. It's all about Finance, making product and selling product for a profit. Everything else is icing on the cake, and helps sales. FC is turning into a real millstone around GW's neck, they need to sort this out, or their Present Bouyant Share Price will begin to tumble.

winterdyne wrote:I'm thinking of using a repeated '6' motif in any freehand. Why? 'Cos it took 6 fecking replacements, Alan.

I was thinking like he's standing triumphantly on top of his lessers... but either way

King of the Elves wrote:Here's what i don't get, why does GW even make finecast? No one (by that i mean the people that buys thier product) likes it, it costs a lot more reatil (i don't lnow if it costs more to make), and then they probley get a ton of returns on just finecast alone. On top of all that it's destroying GWs public image (or whatever they have left of it). You would think that GW would open thier eyes and go to big forums like Dakka to see what they could change to make thier company better! /end of banter

It saves them a shedload of money to produce, and the (reported) culture of the company does not admit to mistakes. There's very little 'ownership' of problems. No 'I fethed up - sorry, this is not working'. The Company is always Right. Which makes fixing issues when they occur, foremost a problem of getting those issues recognised.

However, the critical returns rate may be costing them. I advise the customer base to keep pressure up in this regard. This is the feedback that counts. Get them shipped to you (costs the company, you keep the original parts). Don't take the piss - ensure you can prove each and every requirement for replacement. Generally you won't have to, but it's still good practice. The aim is to get what you paid for, not a bucket of free stuff. Consistent feedback online does in fact affect the *public's* regard for the product - whether the company takes note of it or not is largely irrelevant, as such feedback does inevitably have some effect. Look up finecast on Wikipedia for example.

winterdyne wrote:
Look up finecast on Wikipedia for example.

Not to be a knob or anything here Winterdyne, but searching for "Finecast" yields a link to the Citadel Miniatures page.

Which has this to say--and was modified on April 12, 2012.

On May 16th, 2011, Games Workshop announced a new range of Citadel models known as Citadel Finecast. [6] The new range of models are made out of high-quality[citation needed] resin, and were released on the 28th May 2011. All of the models that have been shown are resin versions of Citadel's lead-free white metal models, but are much lighter and more durable[citation needed] than their metal equivalents, as well as being of a higher level of detail[citation needed] than any other Citadel miniature currently available. [7] However it is possible that the quality of these models aren't actually as good as Games Workshop intended. As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed] The most significant concern is reports of high number of models that have casting flaws, such as bubbles, that completely obliterate detail, requiring resculpting to ensure the model is complete. Wayland Games, a retailer in UK, includes the following note on Finecast on their website:

"Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase." [8]

It's very, very interesting that the Wayland Games citation, by the by, is not an actual link. It just says this:

^ "Wayland Games: Citadel Finecast;".

What that tells me is that particular citation was removed--somewhat recently, mind you, as it still is listed in the body of the article and in the citations section without a notation that the link is dead.

It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:

As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]

You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.

Based on the edit history the link is there, it just wasn't done correctly... or something.
The citation link exists if you edit the section. No conspiracy theories there.

Kanluwen wrote:
It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:

As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]

You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.

Funny, I can manage to cast resin weapons without bends just fine. You'd think a 100 million dollar company could figure out how to replicate my results...

So no, bends are not a product of the medium. They are a product of laziness and penny pinching. Leave the model in the mold until it is fully cured and problem solved. But then that would slow production, which costs them money...

Kanluwen; Yeah that's the article I was thinking of.

Pretty damning that the entry on what's effectively a publicily editted encyclopedia states quality issues on what's supposed to be the world's best miniatures range.

In terms of bent weapons, there's a world of difference in correction difficulty between resin bent by pressure or heat compared to post-pull curing in a warped position. It's the curing in the warped position that gives a part a 'memory' of the warped position (hence things tending to move back to that position after being corrected).

Aerethan wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
It's also worth noting this particular piece of the Finecast section:

As many people have pointed out, they have many flaws. Usually the models come with defects in them, such as bent weapons, lots of additional flash etc.[citation needed]

You and I both know that's not a "flaw" or a "defect". Bends are a product of the medium, and whoever put that up there is talking out of their bum. Whoever put "lots of additional flash" as well is so far beyond the pale of what could be considered rational that it's silly.

Funny, I can manage to cast resin weapons without bends just fine. You'd think a 100 million dollar company could figure out how to replicate my results...

So no, bends are not a product of the medium. They are a product of laziness and penny pinching. Leave the model in the mold until it is fully cured and problem solved. But then that would slow production, which costs them money...

You're also casting things at a much smaller volume than they are. You can cite it for laziness and penny pinching all you want, but you're not producing upwards of hundreds of models a day now are you? However you did not actually dispute my statement. You simply said that "bends can be negated by paying lots of attention to each model".
That's not going to happen, and you most certainly know why.

Bends are a product of the medium of resin. The material has an inherent flexibility to it which is not necessarily seen in metal or the commonly utilized plastics. That comment, however, does not state that "bends never ever ever happen in any other medium other than Finecast and it's clearly a failure of quality control". Bends can--and do happen--even during things as simple as shipping.

winterdyne wrote:Kanluwen; Yeah that's the article I was thinking of.

Pretty damning that the entry on what's effectively a publicily editted encyclopedia states quality issues on what's supposed to be the world's best miniatures range.

Sure it is, but at the same time part of those criticisms are so ridiculously silly ("Excessive amounts of flash"? So we never see flash on metal or plastics?)they make it seem like someone just got bored and decided to take the most minimal issues and blow them up as the "big points".

In terms of bent weapons, there's a world of difference in correction difficulty between resin bent by pressure or heat compared to post-pull curing in a warped position. It's the curing in the warped position that gives a part a 'memory' of the warped position (hence things tending to move back to that position after being corrected).

Oh no doubt. The issue I take with it is that it does not differentiate between the two.

If the piece will not actually straighten out due to having been pulled at a warped position? Then yes--there is a problem.
If the piece will straighten after a few dips in hot->cold water? That's not a world-ending problem with the material. It's freaking two or three minutes worth of work, tops.

Sidenote: Sorry if I'm taking your thread off-topic here Winterdyne. If you want, I'll gladly discuss it in PMs with yourself and/or Aerethan.

Nah, I'm not that botthered, mate.

I personally accept and expect small bubbles that are easily filled. Anything where I have to resculpt detail is a problem. Spin cast resin in particular has huge issues with this. Flash similarly, isn't an issue, nor are parts that bend post-cure (as they are easy enough to correct).

Even on the model I'm finally accepting, there are far mor fixes than there should be, or would be in metal or pressure-cast resin. You'll see when I take the photos. I also have an event only Skinwolf that is typically 'Finecast'. Missing fingertips, claw tips. The sort of thing that shouldn't be missing. :-( And already 1 set of replacement parts down.

You should paint the first miscast one you got to the highest of your skills an enter that into golden demon I'm sure it being the finest possible miniature you can't even imagine they would have to at least make it a finalist regardless.

Oh man. Now I'm afraid to even take it out of the box.

My resin doesn't bend like finecast bends. I have no problem making pieces that stay the way they were designed thru the casting process.

And the excuse that GW doesn't have to meet basic criteria of quality because they produce on some grand scale is total BS.
Computer parts are produced on even broader scales and the failure/return rate on those is insanely less than with GW's rinky dink resin project.

The fact is that GW has no excuse to be releasing shoddy products that aren't as pictured, at least not without huge disclaimers about their lack of quality control and how your finecast model may look damn near nothing like the one pictured(many models of which are still pics of the original metal pieces).

<frank oz>I sense much anger in you young Aerethan... much anger. Hmmm!</frank oz>

Threads like this make me afraid of ordering my Haradrim Commanders.

winterdyne wrote:<frank oz>I sense much anger in you young Aerethan... much anger. Hmmm!</frank oz>

lol

I just refuse to accept that GW can be ok with what they have done.

Shadowbrand wrote:Threads like this make me afraid of ordering my Haradrim Commanders.

By all means order them. But well ahead of time and in the knowledge that you *may* need to dance the replacement tango for a while. Or they might be lovely first time out. The main thing is DON'T ACCEPT SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH.

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that failcast helmet. He looks... dubious.

The shortbus riding red headed stepchild marine.