WIP Finecast 25th Anniversary Space Marine

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**MiLkiT**

The_Stormrider wrote:On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.

Hehe Thanks I was so full of rage

and needed to channel it. Been how many years since I posted??

but I couldn't stay silent

I brought my actual first editon farsser to show off while I picked up this mini..... Then I looked in the finely crafted crapbox

then being told there was none left to exchange and I'd have to deal with customer service

... well I also wrote a dear John letter to GW but thought that it might be a little much.

**heartserenade**

Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.

**MiLkiT**

heartserenade wrote:Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.

Actually that's a pretty good idea, he might make a cool fight seen diorama

**coyotius**

Surely someone could be motivated to start a Fincast Fail-A-Day blog...independant of Dakka or other forums where people could submit images of their bad products. I think threads on these larger sites or single person blogs tend to get lost in the shuffle

I agree with a previous comment that a class action lawsuit would be a bad move but this situation has been going on for what? Almost a year now? Sure there are good casts being made and sent out but as a community what is an acceptable failure rate?

The vanguard vets in this thread turned my stomach:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1110/414690.page

**The Duke of Vandals**

The_Stormrider wrote:On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.

+10 internets, sir. Helpful farseer and disapproving necron made me laugh for a good minute.

**MiLkiT**

The Duke of Vandals wrote:
The_Stormrider wrote:On the upside that fail montage with the disapproving models might be my favorite version of effectively channeled fincast rage yet. Kudos to you sir, and kudos again.

+10 internets, sir. Helpful farseer and disapproving necron made me laugh for a good minute.

Thank you kind Sirs, I love the name Disapproving Necron! I think that will stick hehe. You might not have seen the last of him, If I finsih my dual entry in time

**Crazyterran**

On closer look, the banner and such does have very thin areas if held up to a light, but other than that (and going over it again with a magnifying glass), not much i can do / complain about.

**heartserenade**

MiLkiT wrote:
heartserenade wrote:Er, change it into battle damage? That's really effed up. If it were me I would most likely just save the fist with GS and cut everything to combine with other kits for conversion.

Actually that's a pretty good idea, he might make a cool fight seen diorama

I actually have done this twice on two Sword brethren models. One had a derpy face and several bubbles on the shoulder pads and very bent sword. The other had several bubbles on both arms, legs and a HUGE bubble on its face that no one can fix short of resculpting. So for the first one I did a head swap and also changed the sword, then with my hobby knife turned the bubbles into battle damage. Same with the other one, only I hid the nasty bubbles with a shield on one hand and changed completely the other hand.

**winterdyne**

No, just no. 'Call it battle damage' is NOT a solution.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Progress: I received an email from CS this morning, a replacement is on the way. I do really feel for the guys at CS, they have to deal with a ton of gak from a lot of folks (many of whom I'm willing to bet are far less polite than me). They do now, and always have done a sterling job.

**The Duke of Vandals**

winterdyne wrote:No, just no. 'Call it battle damage' is NOT a solution.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Progress: I received an email from CS this morning, a replacement is on the way. I do really feel for the guys at CS, they have to deal with a ton of gak from a lot of folks (many of whom I'm willing to bet are far less polite than me). They do now, and always have done a sterling job.

Yeah I think if anything the CS guys prolly want to lead the riot of players that are pissed about finecast. All this must have increased their workload tenfold. Classic GW halfassing it. If they hired some guys to actually inspect the minis before they are sent out then they wouldnt be getting raked over the coals on the net.
Ive said it before and I stand by it. Finecast is a joy to work with. Beats the pants off metal and it puts detal on plastic to shame. This could have been the thing that helped cement GW as the leader. Instead people are afraid to buy it cause of the horror stories they have heard and the fact that they are even more expensive then the normal models.

**Mr. Burning**

Whats limited about a finecast mini with defects?

Hope you can polish this one winterdyne.

**Spaced**

The detail on finecast is superb, but I don't think it's worth the trade-off. Spending so much on a model demands they should have done quality control first before releasing finecast, not using their loyal customers as guinea pigs.....the number of warped power swords and snapped chainswords is dire. They snap so easily in a GW case, I'm talking after 1 day in a case, and by that point you can't return them......

**Sonophos**

3 words: fit for purpose.

If it has bubbles and faults it is not fit for my collection and I ask for a new one that does not have faults. If I don't get one I want a double refund because I don't get my intended use out of it.

**HAZZER**

winterdyne wrote:It'll be the large base for display / golden demon for me.
If I get a decent replacement I may use this one for a gaming piece, magnetising the captain so the rest of the base could be an objective marker.
I dunno, we'll see.

Hazzer- your sprue is seriously warped - is that backpack alright? It looks... off.

I have no idea how they'll handle replacements.

The backpack seems fine atm, but ain't going to remove it just incase I can't get a replacement. But the SM haed and backpack are fine, funny there the only things which are ok!

**Pilgrim Argyllian**

I received two in the post today. Just sent this email to GW CS, I tried to be cheerful, because no doubt they have had bucketloads of complaints today, perhaps they'd prefer if I kept it short instead but oh well. One model's neck guard had quite a hole in it along with other mis casts, whereas the other just had several minor issues. If it were a box of ork Boyz I wouldn't worry, but this is designed to be a display piece.

Dear gamesworkshop customer support person,

I understand in your job you must deal with many grumpy people, to this end, I have tried to focus on the positive in my complaint. I ordered two of the 25th anniversary 40k model, and both arrived on time today. Unfortunately the casting is not completely up to standard in all regards.

The first character sprue appears fine, the neck guard is thin but not punctured like the other. The sides of the head are well aligned rather than the raised eyebrow expression I am given by my other purchase. The backpack is also perfectly formed, lacking the bubbles and gaps in vents seen upon his brethren. I also notice that his tailor is better, his heel lacking the unsightly bubble seen upon the other model.

Unfortunately the great scenic bases of both models have some imperfections. The detail of the helmet on the first is lost, as the eye blends with the cheek and the lump on the side is replaced with a large bubble accompanied by some smaller ones. On the other there are some small missing spots, nothing too dreadful, but on a model of such calibre small imperfections are somewhat disappointing. There are again some bubbles in the space marine helmet on ground.

As for the banners, the first model's "cross bar" is distinctly warped with with an air bubble in the end of it. The tassels hanging from this bar in front of the banner seem messy, certainly compared to those pictured on the box, although I do understand the difficulties in casting such fine detail. The second banner pole is far straighter and the detail is better than the first, although it shares an unsightly indentation along its reverse, which I would describe as "reverse mould line".

I understand that modelling is an important part of the hobby, and I have spent many hours removing mould lines over the past 13 years, but removing small casting imperfections is not the same as replacing parts that are not there and trying to reconstruct missing detail. There are little extra bits of resin to be removed across the model which I have no problem doing however, I feel the cost and significance of this model raise expectations of quality. One shouldn't have to spend time fixing bubbles and other imperfections on such a costly miniature. Your business is built upon detail and perfection and unfortunately both these models have fallen short of your own high standards.

I can provide pictures of the models if required, although that may have to wait until tomorrow for some better daylight. I do hope you are not having too rough a day, and thank you for reading my babbling. I hope to hear from you soon,

Your's Sincerely

Jim.

Would I be better off calling as well?

EDIT: DAMN COBBLERS MAKE SHOES NOT TAILORS.

**winterdyne**

I think you're generally better of with:
'Hi, my model is miscast. Here are pictures [attached, cropped, showing faults clearly], please send a replacement to [address]'. Anything else simply isn't needed. 10-1 you get a response requesting pictures. It's not the delay in getting replacements sent out that's the issue (GW's customer service is superb, and really quite efficient) it's the fact that the replacements are handled as a new order process, so the chance of you getting a decent cast is the same as it was in the first place. ie, not very good.

**Pilgrim Argyllian**

You're probably right. Although I wanted to make it seem as if there is somebody behind each of these requests, stop it being "we received 2000 replacement requests this week" rather than "2000 customers were dissatisfied", an attempt to stop it being so systematic. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement goes.

**MiLkiT**

Update! I just got off the phone with CS. They told me that they would mail me a shipping label so I could send it back to them. After they have inspected it they will send me a replacement.

I asked what are the chances the second one will be perfect and I wont have to send it back? After a long awkward moment of silence he said.. well we ship a lot of finecast and its a lot of stuff for quality control to inspect.... Metal models and plastics have flaws too....he just BS me more WTF. So I say well if I get a second model and that's messed up too, can I get my money back? Well we'll talk about that when you get it,WTF! I started to get angry

now... Very angry

WTF is this garbage!!!.. I just got off the phone so my rage wouldn't consume me!

I guess i'm going to try sending them an angry email with pictures of this crap. I just can't believe what has happened to this once great company, Damn corporate whoring:(

**HAZZER**

Guys does anybody have a GW CS number or link to hand please?

**coyotius**

MiLkiT wrote:Update! I just got off the phone with CS. They told me that they would mail me a shipping label so I could send it back to them. After they have inspected it they will send me a replacement.

I asked what are the chances the second one will be perfect and I wont have to send it back? After a long awkward moment of silence he said.. well we ship a lot of finecast and its a lot of stuff for quality control to inspect.... Metal models and plastics have flaws too....he just BS me more WTF. So I say well if I get a second model and that's messed up too, can I get my money back? Well we'll talk about that when you get it,WTF! I started to get angry now... Very angry WTF is this garbage!!!.. I just got off the phone so my rage wouldn't consume me!

I guess i'm going to try sending them an angry email with pictures of this crap. I just can't believe what has happened to this once great company, Damn corporate whoring:(

I haven't dealt with Finecast yet...my first one will be this model (arriving tomorrow). Is it now standard practice to send the miniature back? Or is this a special case because of the limited nature of the mini? I've seen the necron overlord blog where the guy has all 8-10 bad castings, so obvious he didn't have to send them back.

I can only hope that as more armies get finecast releases and see older metal minis replaced with resin this situation will actually get worse! This will have to reach a critical mass before anything gets done. CS has been dealing with complaints for a year now so obviously we're still well within GW's acceptable complaint limit. Can't wait for all the fun when the Gamesday mini gets released and folks in the long queue start demanding the mini be opened on the spot for inspection!

**winterdyne**

Pilgrim Argyllian wrote:You're probably right. Although I wanted to make it seem as if there is somebody behind each of these requests, stop it being "we received 2000 replacement requests this week" rather than "2000 customers were dissatisfied", an attempt to stop it being so systematic. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement goes.

I used to work in customer support (for PC's). My favourite customers were the ones that got straight to the point (politely). I didn't need to know (for example) what they were trying to burn to CD or why, simply that it wasn't working. A 10 minute discussion on their wedding day photography simply hurt my call times and my 'phone fix' quota for the day (and therefore my bonus).

MiLkiT: No need to get cross with the CS guys. Remember their calls are probably monitored, so they really can't tell you anything but the party line. Where they can't think of a sensible (and approved) answer, they're forced to use a deflection like you describe. Sad but true. Saying 'er, your chance of getting a good cast really isn't very good, expect to do this a few times' will just get them fired.

Hazzer: The CS number is: +44 (0) 115 9140000. Email is: orders@games-workshop.co.uk

**coyotius**

Winterdyne, since you've worked CS, would you say that polite requests generated as much up-chanelling as heated ones? I feel for the poor CS people too but if all is calm at the phones I can only imagine that the supervisors don't react much and therefore the issue stays localized and never gets passed upwards...or if it does its not conveyed with the same sense of urgency. "We're getting raked over the coals down here...what are we doing about this?!?!" versus "oh, we've had complaints but we're processing them smoothly."

Edit: Could this be a cultural thing? Not to bash my countrymen but we do love a good confrontation from time to time. To be honest, it is necessary at times when you're being stonewalled.

**winterdyne**

In the situation I worked in, frequency of complaint / calls about certain products, or requirement of replacement parts / engineer visits both generated quantatitve data that could be examined by the business I worked for. There was a database at the back end of it all that could (I suppose, wasn't my department) be queried for the number of fails on a particular part / system / manufacturer.
If a customer was abusive, swore a lot, or basically was being deliberately unpleasant to us we were allowed to simply terminate the call. Customers who'd been disconnected were 99% of the time polite the second time round. A certain amount of anger or frustration is to be expected, and a good CS operative will know how to calm someone down. We were required to go through several diagnostic steps to analyse problems, and quite often these could seem like a 'fob off' to customers, so it was a bit of an art in dealing with people to get the information needed to either fix the problem or arrange for it to be fixed.
But to directly address your question, no, at the end of the day a polite customer would get *exactly* the same service (or better, due to getting the information across) as an (initially) abusive or uncooperative one.

**rigeld2**

coyotius wrote:Winterdyne, since you've worked CS, would you say that polite requests generated as much up-chanelling as heated ones? I feel for the poor CS people too but if all is calm at the phones I can only imagine that the supervisors don't react much and therefore the issue stays localized and never gets passed upwards...or if it does its not conveyed with the same sense of urgency. "We're getting raked over the coals down here...what are we doing about this?!?!" versus "oh, we've had complaints but we're processing them smoothly."

Edit: Could this be a cultural thing? Not to bash my countrymen but we do love a good confrontation from time to time. To be honest, it is necessary at times when you're being stonewalled.

Not trying to hijack the thread, and I (obviously) can't speak to winterdyne's experience..

When I worked phone support, the whole team was in pretty constant contact. If we all saw the same issue pretty constantly over the course of an hour or so, we'd ping the supervisor to let him know. If it continued, we'd ask him to escalate the issue. If we found a fix (especially one that wasn't related to our area) we'd escalate that immediately. The tone of the call didn't matter - angry callers simply took longer to deal with. Friendly or neutral callers were quick and to the point, issue resolved or otherwise documented, and call done. Angry callers meant I had to listen to a rant for 5 minutes before I could bother starting on the resolution, and there were many breaks in the fix waiting for another rant to finish.

**AlexHeap**

Bar one or two every finecast model I've ordered from GW has had miscasts.

I've actually set up an email template now, with all the required information, so that I just have to plug the appropriate order number and picture into it. Saves me time and saves them time as they only have to send the one copy and pasted reply. Very rarely have to go through this process more than once though as you can generally cobble together a good one from the two sets.

**ironicsilence**

Didnt GW put out a finecast repair kit for these problems?

I kid i kid

**Daedricbob**

Nothing I can add that hasn't already been said about quality control on some of the finecast castings, but for a 'flagship' limited edition figure they should have really made sure each one was pukka.
Ebay + metal models will be the preferred route for me until finecast quality control reaches a level on a par with the old white metals. Although finecast was obviously introduced by GW to be much cheaper to manufacture than metal figures, you can't melt the stuff down and recast when crap like that happens, so I wonder what the savings are? (And how big the returns pile is!)

**Talarn Blackshard**

Having also worked in CS (currently working helpdesk for a hospital network) the main problem I have (from the CS POV) is that theres only so many phrases I can say and not get in trouble, so I really feel for CS.

My only interaction was when I received a large box full of knights (empire ... 5th/6th ed i think?back when they had the puffy pant and arm styles) they were awesome about it and send me my actual order (a ton of state troops and militia ... but did have to send back all the knights

)

EDIT: fripping typos.

**HAZZER**

ironicsilence wrote:Didnt GW put out a finecast repair kit for these problems? I kid i kid

There responce is either to buy anouther one or GS or liquid GS!Lol!

But the thing is, my friend got a 25th guy and he was perfect!

But mine has to be fuailty!

@winterdyne-Thaks for the number! Will be phoning up trommrow!

**mwnciboo**

That Space Marine head is a damn disgrace. So when GW say the price reflects the Quality and specialist nature of their business, I will say "BS".

I don't know any company that would put such a low quality product on sale. I mean thats the Quality you would expect of a third party fly by night operating company, that is ripping off customers.

I simply do not understand why when I buy from other companies like Battlefront or Forged in Battle, or even from FORGEWORLD, i get a decent resin product. But GW Finecast is awful.

I am also concerned as I like to Pin my models (even resin ones by drilling with a dremel and then gluing a Paperclip section in). With the number of air bubbles I am wary of voids within the Material and if i drill into it suddenly the outside collapses and I need to do reconstructive surgery with GS.

The only good thing to come out Finecast is Liquid Green Stuff and that says it all.