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Apart from wanting to get one for research, there doesn't really seem to be another explanation as to why Humans would keep encountering the Xenomorph.

Perhaps research of the creature went well for another Company and they successfully deploy their new hybrid Bio-Weapon

Hyrbid Human Alien that infects people to create more of itself, or lesser creatures with it's own DNA or somesuch.

Then were getting into Resident Evil territory, or the unthinkable of a full cycle back to this.

Seriously, what size was this thing going to be when it was fully grown?

Hulksmash wrote:Sidenote the novels for AvP were much better than the movie concept since it took place.....well in the future so it tied in with the aliens unlike the AvP movies.

Manchu wrote:Yeah, I love those. Machiko FTW! The Perrys actually wrote the first book, Prey.

The worst part about the AvP movie (aside from most of the movie in its entirety) is that it borrowed just enough that Aliens vs Predator: Prey can't really be made into a movie anymore. This is doubly painful, as the original script for AvP WAS the story of AvPrey, featuring Machiko as the main character. The book remains one that I read over and over. Broken Tusk's reaction at her being female still sticks in my mind as a hysterical high point of a fantastic story.

Ahtman wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

Manchu wrote:As far as Ridley's source material goes, you've only got humans I'm afraid. As I said, your statement is pure supposition.

Incorrect. In Alien, a giant hole can be seen in the Space Jockey's chest...

We assume an Alien did that, but it might have been that he ate Taco Bell. Or it could be that the Jockey was human at one point.

I don't know, I highly doubt that it was anything but a Chestburster. It wasn't just a giant hole...one of the characters who sees it makes a comment about how it appears his chest burst outward.

I also doubt that the planet is LV-426, it isn't a direct Alien prequel, and Scott has said you only start to see 'strands' of Alien DNA in the third act of the movie-and only of the first Alien, not any of the sequels. Having it take place on the same planet as Alien seems like too big and too obvious of a connection to Alien for how much emphasis is being placed on Prometheus NOT being a direct prequel to Alien.

I'm expecting it to be the kind of thing where only fans of the original Alien will recognize it as an Alien Prequel. If you've only seen Alien once, and it was years back, would you recognize the space jockeys and derelict ship again? Probably not, they barely make an appearance in Alien. I doubt there are going to be any more striking similarities.

@steamdragon: This is actually one of the good points of our reboot culture. If you don't like how one version of a film does, you don't even have to wait to get another one going assuming you can find the financial backing. Cf. Spiderman.

Ahtman wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

Manchu wrote:As far as Ridley's source material goes, you've only got humans I'm afraid. As I said, your statement is pure supposition.

Incorrect. In Alien, a giant hole can be seen in the Space Jockey's chest...

We assume an Alien did that, but it might have been that he ate Taco Bell. Or it could be that the Jockey was human at one point.

Thats not correct. If it was Taco Bell it would have tore out the spacejockeys as...er never mind.

Space Taco Bell can get you at any time, and come out from any place!

imark789 wrote:It wasn't just a giant hole...one of the characters who sees it makes a comment about how it appears his chest burst outward.

The problem with taking things in movies so literally is that the details just don't hold up without having to make up more and more "facts" to support them. Why was the hole so big on the jockey compared to the hole in Kane's chest? You'd have to make it up that whatever came out of the jockeys chest was much bigger than the thing that came out of Kane. Why? Again, making it up: the size of the xenomorph is directly proportional to the size of the host. We don't have evidence for any of this because it wasn't necessary to tell the story at hand. The point of the hole in the jockey's chest was to deepen the mystery, foreshadow Kane's fate, and eventually explain the crash of the Derelict.

Strange that the first one got published the same year as the third movie. It's funny to because the third movie wouldn't have done anything to the plot line. Though Requiem would. Ah, memories!

IIRC, the release of Alien 3 was a marketing bonanza.

Manchu wrote:

imark789 wrote:It wasn't just a giant hole...one of the characters who sees it makes a comment about how it appears his chest burst outward.

The problem with taking things in movies so literally is that the details just don't hold up without having to make up more and more "facts" to support them. Why was the hole so big on the jockey compared to the hole in Kane's chest? You'd have to make it up that whatever came out of the jockeys chest was much bigger than the thing that came out of Kane. Why? Again, making it up: the size of the xenomorph is directly proportional to the size of the host. We don't have evidence for any of this because it wasn't necessary to tell the story at hand. The point of the hole in the jockey's chest was to deepen the mystery, foreshadow Kane's fate, and eventually explain the crash of the Derelict.

I'm not trying to use facts so much as point that it seems like far too much of a coincidence. The size could be due to any number of filmmaking reasons- it could have been difficult to create a larger hole and alien for the chestburster scene with Kane, for instance. IMHO, the point of the chestburster is yes to foreshadow Kane's fate, but realize that that is what also happened to the space jockey.

Which sounds more probable- that Scott included the space jockey with a chestburster-esque hole in its chest because a chestburster popped out of it, or that it was some totally unrelated incident?

I don't think it was unrelated. As I mentioned, it was also meant to explain the crash of the Derelict.

What it was not meant to do was given scientific insight into the ecology of the xenomorph.

Manchu wrote:I don't think it was unrelated. As I mentioned, it was also meant to explain the crash of the Derelict.

What it was not meant to do was given scientific insight into the ecology of the xenomorph.

I definitely agree with you there. Ecology of the xenomorph...we all know that no one writing the Alien movies was putting much thought into that when they were wrote, therefore making debating it endlessly pointless. Half the people in this thread have put more thought into it than the directors did.

I just meant that I think it's a safe assumption that the space jockeys chest hole can be attributed to a chest burster.

@imark789: Oh, I definitely agree with that. When talking about really compelling fictional settings, people often make arguments based on assumptions or competing sources. Yes, we were certainly meant to assume a chestburster killed the space jockey. But that means close to zero regarding what we'll see in Prometheus. At most, we know that whatever was in that chair eventually dies, probably of major trauma originating within its chest.


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You know, it just hit me. If an xenomorph does kill the space jockey, and the space jockey was on its way to destroy Earth, doesn't that mean that a xenomorph helped save the Earth?

Manchu wrote:@steamdragon: This is actually one of the good points of our reboot culture. If you don't like how one version of a film does, you don't even have to wait to get another one going assuming you can find the financial backing. Cf. Spiderman.

I continue to hope that we get a real AvP movie. The two we have have been ... lackluster, at best.

I really like the second AvP game. Second? Er, technically, thirteenth. Well, anyway, I mean this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_vs._Predator_(video_game)

For me, this takes the place of AvP and AvP:R is, in my mind, the equivalent of fanfiction posted on deviantArt.

Manchu wrote:I really like the second AvP game. Second? Er, technically, thirteenth. Well, anyway, I mean this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_vs._Predator_(video_game)

Really? I have heard nothing but awful things about that game. Thought that was a pity since I loved the first* AvP game (PC 1999).

*OK, not the first.

It sold really well and it's great for someone who only plays FPS games casually. If you play FPSs to pwn n00bs then I doubt this is the game for you.

If I recall that game correctly, it had the distinction of actually having a useful motion sensor. The first game that I recall, would basically go "beep" right as you were having your face chewed off.

I do look forward to Colonial Marines though.

Me, too! I was sad that they pushed back to fall but better it be right than another nail in a potential franchise coffin. I played Infestation back when it first came out and absolutely loved it. If (1) have a DS, (2) like old-style games, and (3) don't expect too much out of a SNES-era sidescrollers, I'd really recommend it, too.

I will second the recommendation of the DS game. It is all sorts of fun.

I'll have to look into that. The old capcom Aliens Versus Predator arcade game remains a favorite of mine. I've been trying to find an old cabinet of it, but have had no luck so far. :(

@Ahtman: I thought it was especially awesome how all the Marines have backstories. That's a recurring technique in the films and seems to be something that will be done in Prometheus.

Manchu wrote:@Ahtman: I thought it was especially awesome how all the Marines have backstories. That's a recurring technique in the films and seems to be something that will be done in Prometheus.

That and the way they handle your 'lives' make it fairly inspired.

Looking at the materials given us so far I think Scott is going to explore synthetics more than the other films. In Alien and Aliens they were just sort accepted as normal but the implications never were explored as to what being a synthetic human meant or it's impact on society. Resurrection sort of attempted to expand on the machines a bit was a bit clumsy, and ended up being more about cloning really.

Like I said, there is some of that in the Perrys' trilogy, what with a synthetic Ripley leading the team in Book 3. Of course, she doesn't know she's synthetic until midway through. Then the existential questions come rolling out -- which I really hope we don't get too bogged down in regarding Prometheus. So far we've got a giant evil corporation and robots who want to be humans. It's turning into a minefield for anyone who wants to make a fresh sci-fi movie. I mean Ridley Scott already did all of this stuff ... oh wait.

How do the synthetics work in ALIEN?

They aren't robotic skeletons with lab grown tissue, or are they?

Ash seems to melt when he is hit by the flamer thrower, so it's probably not skin as such.

Would it be justifiable to say they are relatively close to Blade Runners portrayal of synthetics?

Manchu wrote:Like I said, there is some of that in the Perrys' trilogy, what with a synthetic Ripley leading the team in Book 3. Of course, she doesn't know she's synthetic until midway through. Then the existential questions come rolling out -- which I really hope we don't get too bogged down in regarding Prometheus. So far we've got a giant evil corporation and robots who want to be humans. It's turning into a minefield for anyone who wants to make a fresh sci-fi movie. I mean Ridley Scott already did all of this stuff ... oh wait.

I read the comics for a bit but keep them generally in the same regard as the Star Wars EU when it comes to their role in the series.

I don't want to get bogged down in it either, but I would like to see some indication that having fake humans running around might have an effect people. I think the fact that humans created synthetic human beings is actually going to be somewhat pivotal to story.

@Med_of_D: That's a tough question. The ones in Alien and Aliens don't have red blood. Instead, they seem to have a kind of thick, milky fluid circulating around in there. That doesn't really answer your question but that's really all we know. Some of the synthetics in the novels are less distinguishable from humans and there is some mention of natural tissue being used (real, growing skin and hair, for example) but analysis of their red-colored blood under a microscope is apparently a give-away.


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Ahtman wrote:I don't want to get bogged down in it either, but I would like to see some indication that having fake humans running around might have an effect people. I think the fact that humans created synthetic human beings is actually going to be somewhat pivotal to story.

Agreed. Way back on page one, I asked whether anyone thought the Bald Man was David. I don't think that's probable now, but the underlying point stands.

Lets not forget that the aliens don't recognize synthetics as threats, or at least they didn't in Aliens when they ignored Bishop. It wasn't until the angry queen dramatically made an entrance that they showed them really take notice of them.

Again, this is ignoring the comics and only looking at Alien and Aliens, since that is what Scott supposedly is doing.

When do they ignore him? Did he go into the nest? I thought he was driving. In Hive World, IIRC, the xenomorphs ignore the Colonial Marines (who are actually synthetics) until they start to threaten the nest.

Manchu wrote:When do they ignore him? Did he go into the nest? I thought he was driving. In Hive World, IIRC, the xenomorphs ignore the Colonial Marines (who are actually synthetics) until they start to threaten the nest.

When he is heading to array through the tunnel an alien sticks it head in the tube, then just goes about its business. Putting both instances together they ignore synthetics unless they see them as a threat, but will go after humans for pretty much any reason. It also shows that they don't go by site alone as they can tell the difference even when people cannot.