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Green is Best! wrote:You bring up some good points. I may have to consider giving Khan a go. And, its not so much that I am against outflanking, it is just that I am very much in favor of combat tactics. Falling back out of assault range is very handy.

But, if I were to outflank with a stormtalon, I am thinking the TL Lascannon would be the way to go.

Only way to find out is to try it out on the battlefield. I am picking mine up on Saturday....

I'm a huge fan of combat tactics, and I hear you about how much it would suck to lose it.

That being said, I can understand the desire to go with outflanking now. Since the stormtalons help to 'clump' your reserves together, it means your coming on with a bigger hit.
I plan on testing this with some TH/SS termis in a LRR, some bikes, and a few talons. I don't expect it to be highly competitive, but I do expect it to throw some people off their game.

I am thinking a LRR w/ MM and TL Assault Cannon being escorted on by a Stormtalon w TL Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon with TH/SS termies assaulting would cause a considerable amount of headache for any army.

Khan may make it back into my army list after all.

I really can't see me taking more than one stormtalon in this role. Again, I would hate to give up my speeder squadrons. Depending on how it performs in the next few games, I may change my mind however.

Green is Best! wrote:I am thinking a LRR w/ MM and TL Assault Cannon being escorted on by a Stormtalon w TL Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon with TH/SS termies assaulting would cause a considerable amount of headache for any army.

Khan may make it back into my army list after all.

I really can't see me taking more than one stormtalon in this role. Again, I would hate to give up my speeder squadrons. Depending on how it performs in the next few games, I may change my mind however.

How are your Speeder squadrons equipped?

TML. I run bikes. So, the speeders hang back and shoot from a distance while the bikes hang around 13"-24" inches away dropping multi-melta and/or bolter shots.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

phoenixrisin wrote:where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

The White Dwarf rules for the Stormtalon have it with Ceremite Plating which makes it immune to the "melta" rule. The Thunderhawk was the first to have it and it has since come over to the Caestus Assault Ram, Stormraven and the Stormtalon; it is not a new rule but it is new to the core 40K game.

thanks for the clarification.

also, these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

Agreed, I think the Necron scythes are a close second for value for money too imo. But if your anything like my, shopping with independent stockists will save you a good 20% off the retail price anyway's, so the price increase shouldn't hit your wallet as hard.

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

And if you plan on making your bommas from a McDonalds McFlurry cup and a gak load of plastic card, well, then it starts to look even better!

SonicPara wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:these new flyers are super overpriced($$$).

For GW kits, I actually think that they aren't too bad. The Ork one is easily the best value with the most goodies but considering all of the talk of a Stormraven going to $80+ and $70+ Land Raiders, $44.50 for these fliers doesn't hurt quite as bad.

$70 Land Raider??? i just bought a new sealed one for $49 and i thought it was a rip, lol.

At lest the stormtalon isn't open-topped which gives it a greater survivability.

Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Yep, the Stormtalon only has the +1 AV in durability over the Landspeeder. With that said AV11 isn't always as paper-thin as it appears, especially if there are other more dangerous armored threats on the battlefield. AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

SonicPara wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

Yep, the Stormtalon only has the +1 AV in durability over the Landspeeder. With that said AV11 isn't always as paper-thin as it appears, especially if there are other more dangerous armored threats on the battlefield. AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

also, i dont know about anyone else, but ive seen rhinos survive more gunfire than my leman russes...although, that could just be luck...
the game i played tonight i ran a stormtalon and 2 land speeders with solitary multimeltas...(couldnt afford other upgrades) the talon outlived the speeders because they were the easier target (which is fine, thats why i took them) the storm talon went on to destroy 2 leman russes and wipe half of a vet squad out before my opponent stopped trying to break my land raider (rather unsuccessfully i might add) and turned his attention to the storm guppie of death...
now i will admit, my opponent had some of the worst target priority ive ever seen, but still, 2.5 times its point costs in damage in 2 turns...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

phoenixrisin wrote:
where does it say anything about being immune to melta? did i miss it?

Ceramite plating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jordanis wrote:

SonicPara wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Land Speeders arn't open topped. Just the LSS is.

AV11 hits a sweet spot where simple infantry weapons can't scratch it but it is still soft enough that players hate to devote a missile to it.

also, i dont know about anyone else, but ive seen rhinos survive more gunfire than my leman russes...a
now i will admit, my opponent had some of the worst target priority ive ever seen, but still, 2.5 times its point costs in damage in 2 turns...

I could see Necron guass weapons being a big problem . (Always glance on a 6+ ?) Especially since they just got their new codex and you're likely to see a lot more of them.

I really wish it could have a multimelta!

Thrawn2600 wrote:I really wish it could have a multimelta!

In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

Well, the TLAC and TLHA are good against AV 10 and 11, e.g., sideshots vs. Predators or Vindicators.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

Thrawn2600 wrote:

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, a multimelta would be useful, especially when the Stormtalon comes from reserve escoring an outflanking unit. This brings it unhindered into range able for side shots.

I think this is exactly why it can't have one, that would be a nearly foolproof way to autokill/maim something expensive and important. The TLAC/TLHB as it stands now is perfectly fine IMO, makes it more versatile as well for cutting apart infantry.

BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

But now you can use the Stormtalon to escort the LSS and target two units, one heavy tank and one light tank (or infantry).

Thrawn2600 wrote:
BUT BUT BUT my LSS can have a multimelta. and it does very much the same thing.

And then what? What if your opponent is lacking any AV14? What if you roll a 1 for your single shot before getting blown away?

I love landspeeders and still use them along with my Stormtalon but the Stormtalon does a much better job as mobile fire support for another unit. As mere DPS carriages, Landspeeder Typhoons are better for the points but this does not mean that the Stormtalon does not have its place.

Get creative with it, exploit the escort rules and outflank one into your opponent's backfield and see what happens.

Get creative with it, exploit the escort rules and outflank one into your opponent's backfield and see what happens.

In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

This is, and has been, exactly my point.

SonicPara wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:In fact, the enemy has to react if a Stormtalon outflanks into his backfield, otherwise it will cause havoc. This will eventually change enemy plans which can be good news for you.

This is, and has been, exactly my point.

Well, I'll get one soon. The combo LSS and Stormtalon escort promises some synergy.

 Grey Templar wrote:
the 60" range is a nice advantage.

That outranges 90% of all weaponry you will encounter. Only Railguns, Battle Cannons, and a few other ordinance weapons can match that.

Str7 is very good at killing transports. the ability to do that from accross the board at potentially BS5 is pretty powerful.

Yeah, but the 60" range basically puts out the 'assault' out of assault cannon, fly around the edge of the board or hover and fire off missiles.

Please don't revive threads that are more than one month dormant.