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According to BoW this are the Stormtalon Rules as found in June WD:

Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship
130pts + upgrades

BS4 AV11
Fast Skimmer
Supersonic
Aerial Assault
Ceramite Plating
Deep Strike
No transporting ability

Comes with Twin linked Assault Cannons and a Twin linked Heavy Bolter than can be upgraded to the following
Twin linked Lascannon
Typhoon Missle Launcher
Sky Hammer Missle Launcher 60" S7 AP4 Heavy 3

Escort Craft
Can be attached to a unit of deep strikers, and will appear within 6" of the deepstriking unit

Hover Strike
Can convert to a skimmer but not move in order to recieve a +1 to BS

While the hover strike and escort craft rule seems like a nice gimmick, the stormtalon still strikes me as quite expensive considering it's rather soft armor.

The weapon option make it either an anti-infantry (HB & AC) or light-to-medium vehicle killer (AC & SHML) or both (AC & TML). The lascannon will very likely be too expensive to even consider.

My first question...

Can Blood Angels take them?

Not unless there is another part of the rules, tbe leaked pages clearly show this as an upgrade for Codex Marines...

But is there clarification on the aerial assault and supersonic rules?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:But is there clarification on the aerial assault and supersonic rules?

Clearly you don't play against Dark Eldar very much.

Real shame they're only for Codex marines, cos I would've bought 3 for my BA

Hopefully the points will be high enough to keep the SM players to buy it.

What I don't get is why GW has to invent new weapons for every new unit they make. The skyhammers are just not necessary.

I would play it with bolters and assaults as an escort for a Storm Eagle filled with terminators.

What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

Its still only AV 11, melta will still work OK against it. With 12" move and still being able to fire it should be able to get som nice side shots. I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade. Could be interseting for Podding armies I guess.

Yeah, i am now terrified of my friends multi-dread drop army (likes to drop pod a 3 model unit of Venrable, ironclad and regular dreads).

With this thing not only can they climb and blast stuff, the now get a gunboat escort as well.

We will have to see how that works when/if deep trikign is changed in 6th Ed (i can only assume it is since there are various units in the 'cron codex who can play with when units can DS in etc)

Actually the rules aren't too shabby, super fast, but doesn't fill a void in the codex like I figured it would (this is basically a beefed up speeder)

tedurur wrote: I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade.

Yeah, I agree. Disregarding potential cost factors, AC&TML seems the best combo, as it can threaten a very wide range of targets from MCs over light-and-medium vehicles to hordes. I fear that the price of that upgrade will be quite restrictive though.

Darkseid wrote:

tedurur wrote: I think its viability depsnds alot on the cost of the Typhoon/Skyhammer upgrade.

Yeah, I agree. Disregarding potential cost factors, AC&TML seems the best combo, as it can threaten a very wide range of targets from MCs over light-and-medium vehicles to hordes. I fear that the price of that upgrade will be quite restrictive though.

Basically what we have is a slightly upgraded faster landspeeder that will cost a lot more.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

It feels like the worst of game design moves.

"Our most popular army is taking a beating because of overexstensive use of melta".
"Let's give all the new untis melta protection".

AV11 with ceramite plating happens to best be countered with missile launchers. The cheapest SM heavy weapon (compared to what you get).
Wonder how they will write a missile launcher protection for next edition.

"Flyers are extremely agile and as such can dodge incoming shooting attacks on a roll os a 3+"

OR

"When in the atmosphere, flyers can deploy countermeasures such as chaff or flares to protect themselves. This is represented by flyers have a 3+ invulnerable save against shooting attack"

sgtspiff wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?


Seriously, the Assault Ram i can understand, the Storm Raven....maybe as it coudl coem from orbit.

The Talon?!

i can only assume they want no-one takign meltas in 6th Ed (althogh if that was the case, why can only marines ignore them?!)

It feels like the worst of game design moves.

"Our most popular army is taking a beating because of overexstensive use of melta".
"Let's give all the new untis melta protection".

AV11 with ceramite plating happens to best be countered with missile launchers. The cheapest SM heavy weapon (compared to what you get).
Wonder how they will write a missile launcher protection for next edition.

Or maybe they won't, and you're making a slippery slope argument. As someone else pointed out, protection from Melta doesn't help too much when your armor is only 12 at best.

In reality, SM vehicles do suck compared to other Chapter's vehicles. Not fast, doesn't have PotMS, and isn't part of an army that has tons of units that can replace vehicles anyway; SW and Dark Angels can field nearly anything to invalidate Preds, Vinds, and 'Saders of all kinds.

Aside from that, I don't believe for one second that GW gave them melta protection because SMs are their most popular army and are taking a beating. Every race's vehicles has some sort of major defense to breach; Tau has disruption pods, Guard have high AV vehicles, Dark Eldar and Eldar both have similar "gain cover against everything" rules, Orks and KFF, Necrons with quantum shielding, even Grey Knights with that psychic ability that removes shaken/stunned. Melta protection, compared to all those I mentioned, isn't that impressive.

Why the hell are all the new flyers as quick as the Dark Eldar vehicles?

Aren't we supposed to be the fastest around?

Lokas wrote:Why the hell are all the new flyers as quick as the Dark Eldar vehicles?

Aren't we supposed to be the fastest around?

Have you seen the model? Its basically a guided missile

The sky talon is pretty terrible, not being able to switch it's assault canon for a reasonably ranged weapon means that its 11 armor can't dart around at a standoff distance and it's wasting the ranged potential of all its other guns. What is the point of this thing? It fills absolutely no role that isn't better filled by a land speeder squadron. If it could switch its assault canon for a missile upgrade or it's HB for multi meltas then maybe I could see a use for it, but it's just painfully bad psyfleman fodder like this.

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

The DE/Eldar/Necron flyers arent immune to melta....

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of atmospheric entry.

Platuan4th wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of Atmospheric entry.

If I had a direct line to gw they'd get an earful about every part of the stormtalon.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Praxiss wrote:What is the current fetish with making all ne space marines vehicle immune to Melta?

You'd be immune to Meltas too if you were capable of survivable atmospheric entry.

You mean like every eldar, dark eldar, and necron flyer? Several IG planes too, the maurader for instance. In fact, why isn't the drop pod immune, it's clearly the most in need. Meltas don't even work that way, if they were immune to directed thermal energy then lasers and flamers wouldn't work. Meltas are some kind of weird microwave beam that functions dissimilarly from accruing heat via friction.

"Atmospheric entry" is badly applied handwavium for these vehicles.

Complain to GW, then. That's the actual excuse used in the books. We also have no indication that Eldar or Necron flyers ARE capable of Atmospheric entry.

If I had a direct line to gw they'd get an earful about every part of the stormtalon.

They need it.

In the 5th edition meta, AV11 just dies to easily to be worth 150 points.

Its a cool model, and I would enjoy having some beef to my marine list, but its overcosted by about 20%. If it was 130 for the AC/CML I would buy it.

Lots of unknowns, like what FOC slot, how much are the upgrades, are there other upgrades besides weaponry, etc. The possibility of squadrons of these ala Valkyries is also there (although unlikely).

On first glance its not really doing all that much for your typical SM army. We already get those weapons in spades, on cheaper and more resilient platforms. Its the maneuverable that sets it apart but not sure that alone is gonna make it worth while in most lists. I suppose it might fit into the more standard shooty spam marine list (eg 3x pred, 3x dread style, 3x shooty FA lists) if the upgrade costs aren't too high, but I am assuming a decent setup for the talon will be in the 150 point range, where just taking typhoons and whatnot makes more sense.

I could see a more death from above all drop pod or similar style themed list taking these as much needed long range support. The escort rule does seem to tie in with drop pod assault quite nicely and assuming its a heavy or FA should slot in fine in such a list. That's probably the intent of the designers and will likely be where you see them taken for the most part.

What is supersonic?

winterman wrote:I could see a more death from above all drop pod or similar style themed list taking these as much needed long range support. The escort rule does seem to tie in with drop pod assault quite nicely and assuming its a heavy or FA should slot in fine in such a list. That's probably the intent of the designers and will likely be where you see them taken for the most part.

This.

The ability to clump your reserves is pretty handy, so when one comes in you get two. If this combines with drop pod assault, it can be very strong, giving you a few nice side shots on the first turn.

Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

Imperial Monkey wrote:What is supersonic?

Can turbo boost 36 inches. I think it also allows the vehicle to move 12" and fire all guns which is important for deep striking.

labmouse42 wrote:
Though at 150 points, I'm still leary on how much good that model will do. Even with all its special tricks, it just dies to a stiff breeze.

If the stormtalon is a FA unit, I will drop them with my two ironclad dreads. It's kinda hard for the opponents to not shoot the dread when it's in your face.