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-Loki- wrote:People comparing it simply to a PDF really should watch the video.

Bring up a 360 view of the Storm Talon, was pretty awesome. It was a really impressive demonstration.

Yeah, it's not like I can go to the GW website for free on any device and see a 360 view of the Storm Talon and other models. Oh, wait... I can.

Kaldor wrote:

helium42 wrote:If your premiss were true, then GW would already not be making any money off of their codex releases or black library books because 'everyone' simply pirates them. This simply isn't true. There will always be those who pirate books/music/video/etc. but they represent a small percentage of the overall users of the medium. How many people do you know that use pdfs instead of books where you play? Probably very few. I'm the only one I know that does it, and I have hard copies of every book I have a pdf for. So the idea that most people would pirate their codexes simply isn't true, or they already would be doing it.

Point being that there are no sanctioned GW PDFs. So no one could use them in GW stores. And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game. And there is still a level of mistrust that people can edit their own PDFs to catch out unsuspecting opponents.

Only a fraction of the player base plays in GW stores. At my FLGS RPGers have used digital media for years now, basically since Paizo released Pathfinder and made it digital copy friendly. I don't see any others bringing ebook codexes in beside myself but I'm sure that this will change in the near future, especially if GW expands the platforms they offer their ebooks on and continues supporting them (unlike their army builder software that they released and never updated).

If it was standard practice to refer to a PDF on a mobile device instead of a paper book, then the rate of piracy would be much higher.

I disagree here as well. My example will be the iPod, or any other mp3 player. The iPod, and iTunes, arrived on the scene during the height of digital theft of music (remember Napster?). Think about all of the people you know and how many have an iPod or other mp3 player. The mp3 player is pretty much the standard way to listen to music. You take it with you everywhere you go, plug it into a speaker system at home, plug it into your car stereo on the road, and use headphones with it anywhere else. Music sales have skyrocketed because most people purchase their mp3s legally at the iTunes store or other digital music stores.

There will always be a certain number of people who pirate music/videos/games/books, but if the music industry is any indication, the vast majority will legally purchase their ebooks from an ebook store.

And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Does your laptop weigh more or take up more space than a backpack full of books?

I also wanted to touch on the argument that people are afraid that other will alter the text of their PDFs in order to gain an advantage. This sounds like a load of gak. If you are playing in an FLGS, you'll have a hardcopy of the books on hand to reference if you think something funny is going on. And who is going to risk getting called out as a cheater and likely not be welcome within their gaming group for doing such a thing?

-Loki- wrote:People comparing it simply to a PDF really should watch the video.

If all you want is a PDf to flick through, you'll obviously balk at the price tag. But a lot of effort went into this. Watching him open the colour section of the fluff, go to the Ultramarine page, then flick through just different shoulder pads and helmet artwork, then go to the full colour model area, and bring up a 360 view of the Storm Talon, was pretty awesome. There's a huge amount of interactivity in these.

I'm not happy about them being iPad only. I'm likely getting a Galaxy tab. But if they did these on android, I'd take one over a physical book any day. And this is from someone who prefers books due to massive headaches from reading on a screen. It was a really impressive demonstration.

No arguments about what's included, but I do have to ask what it adds?
What extra value is there having spinning pictures of models in with your rules?
And interactive galleries? The current codex is interactive, I can turn the pages; and I don't have to worry about smudges or fingerprints obscuring my view, or having to re-charge it overnight.
The links to the rules from one section to another are nice, but hardly worth the extra cost.
If it had a price tag of £10, was a new codex rather than one I have already and was available on something other than Apple, I might be tempted.

I looked at the free sample, and it was pretty cool. The price is a bit steep though. I understand the e-books are not free. Even though you aren't paying for the printer, you are still paying for the writers/editors/etc. And for something like this over a PDF, I'm guessing a good number of computer guys to bring it to life. I've been known to thumb through my old codexes looking at the pictures for ideas, so I think there is value in all the 360s and such. The linking of rules to glossaries is a VERY nice feature, considering how scattered rules and stats are. I was a little disappointed that (in the sample at least) the link for Independent Character just popped up a page ref in the main book.

Besides the price, the other make-or-break issue is support. If every time they publish FAQs or new units in White Dwarf the e-book gets updated it would be worth it. I'm not a huge fan of buying WD for half a page of rules, and then having to drag that around, or having printouts crammed in the back of my codex. With the price of WD these days, it wouldn't take many new units or extras to justify the price of the e-book.

The other big support question is how it works with 6th ed when it releases. If it auto-magicaly updates with all the new rules tweaks, that goes a long way to justifying it's cost. But at this point I'm not dropping cash on a rulebook that might be obsolete in a month.

I think this is great! Looks nice, on a nice platform and all... will never spend that kind of money on a ebook.

I thought that this was the price the paper versions of all the codexes were going to anyway... I've also noticed that rules like ATSKNF is not just a copy and paste from the codex, its updated and specifically says you get the 3" move in addition to moving normally.

I do agree that if it doesn't update with new FAQs that it wouldn't be all that worth it. But if it does (and this is the new price of the paper codex) then I find it VERY worth it.

Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

It is getting reamed in the reviews on iTunes, mainly over the cost. Right now it is sitting on 76 reviews and an average of 1.5 stars out of 5.

You pay VAT on ebooks, with that currently sitting at 20% that makes the base price £20.83.

Nagashek wrote:Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

There are six pages talking about how they cost $42.

helium42 wrote:It is getting reamed in the reviews on iTunes, mainly over the cost. Right now it is sitting on 76 reviews and an average of 1.5 stars out of 5.

I can see GW now...

"Egad, the reviews are appalling! We cant let this happen! Shut it all down!"

Cyporiean wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Tried finding this product, but couldn't find it on the link provided by GW. Not by searching Games, Games Workshop, Codex... so sadly I've no idea how much it costs, but I'm willing to bet they cost as much or only slightly less than the hardcopies.

There are six pages talking about how they cost $42.

Which I now see. I wasn't aware that they were all the same cost, or what books were available, how I would get them, etc, etc, etc. All things that I can't find out if I am a consumer attempting to get more info from GW, if GW is my only source of knowledge. :shrugs: Sorry, I wanted more info and I actually decided to not take internet information at face value for once.

And now I do a search on google and it tells me that without the app, I'm not allowed to know what's available, so that explains that.

I hear that it includes an army builder app anyone know if it does?

choasdwarflord wrote:I hear that it includes an army builder app anyone know if it does?

In the video, they show the user selecting a Dread, adding options and calling it Unit 1. Starting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eI-01ylQ-0k#t=66s

The reason this is on iOS is that Apple made a free authoring tool that is pretty easy to use and does multimedia. Why we do not have readers for Windows/Mac/Linux is a question you have to ask Apple.

This actually sounds and looks quite good.

Ipad only? fail

Formosa wrote:Ipad only? fail

Not if you know anything about mobile development.
Unless GW stops there. . . .

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

Price lowered on a GW product?



That was an excellently executed joke sir.

OT If the book updates when FAQ are put out it will be worth it. Otherwise I see little benefit to this other than it is 1 less book to carry around. If they fail to effectively take advantage of the technology they are now using then what would be the point? I hope they get this one right.

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kaldor wrote:And until recently, it was not at all user friendly to take PDFs with you to a game.

Based on? Because of?

I can't speak for everyone, but until the ready availability of mobile devices able to quickly and easily display PDFs (smart phones and tablets) if you wanted to reference a PDF during a game you either needed to print it out and bring it with you, or bring your laptop to the gaming store.

Neither of which are very user friendly, and both of which will be disallowed in many gaming circles.

Yeah, I have downloaded a couple of PDF codexes, and I can assure you, they are the most annoying thing to use! Scrolling up and down pages to find rules for equipment and stuff gets frustrating. While the space marine codex on the iPad is simple to use, it was expensive though. I hope the price lowers for the other codexes...

Adobe Acrobat X Pro allows you to search a pdf document for certain words just like any website...

Wow, this is a fantastic idea and a great decision. I haven't looked at the preview yet, but if people are correct with the amount of features then GW is making a very smart and very forward thinking move.

For those of you all hating simply because it's iOS, it only makes sense. First off, love or hate Apple, they're the most recognizable and largest media outlook for this format, and consider the user base and functionality... granted I'm not familiar with Android, but with the file for Apple I can: open on my phone, my computer, or my ipad. I don't have an apple computer, but the fact that I have the functionality to browse the media at my leisure, and can potentially go to a store with a codex, rule book, army book, etc... all on one source easily? Yes I'll take that, thank you.

Does the price stink? Yes, but if you look at ibooks (or any digital book for that matter) it's always comparable to the cheapest price the book came out at. Meaning if it's only a hardback, it's going to be more expensive than if it was ever released in paperback. It's the reality of the media.

For those of you who are concerned about buying an intangible product... if you ever spend money online, your entire transaction is intangible, including your money and the receipt. Video game downloads are the same way, DLC content is, as far as I can tell, only released through online sources, etc. It's not a new concept, but one people seem to not realize happens quite often and don't even think twice on the matter.

looks awsome.... hopefully they release other codex and big rule book.


hey.....maybe 6th will come with, or have a digital version???? i already use my ipad for PDF of the codex and rules....getting a real interactive set in stead of scans would just kick serious arse.

I would like to report that there are no flying pigs in my area, yet.

The iBook sample version of the codex is quite nice looking, but it's definitely priced at "Oh my God, they want how much?!?!" GW price levels.

DarthSpader wrote:looks awsome.... hopefully they release other codex and big rule book.


hey.....maybe 6th will come with, or have a digital version???? i already use my ipad for PDF of the codex and rules....getting a real interactive set in stead of scans would just kick serious arse.

So your proving my point that if GW released full high quality searchable PDFs, you would use them instead of buying a hardcopy. Bet when a corporation allows PDFs to be used in stores, it becomes easy for any person to walk in with every codex and rule book illegally downloaded and say that they bought them. This would drastically decrease sales of books. Why would a kid with an allowance spend $40 on a codex when they could download a .pdf from the internet and use the money to buy models, and use the pdf in game stores.

The point is that games workshop cannot police illegally downloaded material if they sell and allow PDFs. Also, any game store that allows players to use pirated versions of rule books and codexs should not be allowed to sell GW product in my opinion. It sets a bad example for younger players, is unethical, and is bad for business.


Also, you cannot compare downloading pdfs to downloading video games via steam. PDFs,movies,books, and tv shows are easily searchable and downloadable on the internet. Computer games on the other hand are hard to pirate, and you lose the ability to download content and play online. With the advent of steam, even the simple use of playing a single player game requires an internet connection to check it's validity.

Its not a PDF though. A straight PDF version would not be color, it would not feature a stormtalon, it wouldn't allow you to click rules to go straight to the entry you would normally flip to. It's paying for convenience and quality. If you disagree don't buy it, I haven't and I love the concept - I will most certainly buy the 6th Edition version when that comes out.

I do love the complaints about 'finger print smudges'... Those are real problems and smartphones will never succeed due to smudges. Almost as bad as when I can't hear the TV over the sound of the crunching the cheetos I am eating while on the couch. Life is hard.

I can only assume this has been in the works for a while, before android took the top spot in smart phones.
Android tablets are doing well and making gains as well.
And with windows 8 tablets due in oct/nov it doesn't seem like they really gave this much thought in the long term.
The windows platform still has the largest install base world wide and would give them access to the largest customer base.
I would bet that ibooks offers some kind of additional copy protection that isn't available on other platforms. Or at least thats what GW were convinced of when making the decision to use this format.
In the end i hope it sells well, If not we are unlikely to see it ported to other platforms, it will be 20 years before GW try's anything "digital" again.
I'm not looking forward to purchasing all my books again @ 40 bucks a pop = 400$ minimum....
Although if they are updated with new errata it might be worth it
In the end ill take my windows tablet and load army builder on it and some pdf's for much less money.

If only they had released an ork one....when they do I am gonna grab it

Sounded pretty cool. Then I saw the price.

Also, just do PDF. That way people can get it on any platform.

I was pretty excited when I saw this. I was definitely looking forward to an iPad version, especially one that could be updated with rules changes. Then I saw the price. The only reason to justify such a high price, 9 bucks higher than a physical version, is that they really want people to still buy the paper versions of the codexes. Digital downloads mean no money for local stores and we already know how concerned GW is about those stores staying open.