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Grey Templar wrote:The sword says "A model equipped with a Greatsword may reroll X, Y, and Z", it never says you have to use the Sword to gain the benifits(unlike other weapons)

It's worded passivly, meaning it works all the time.

You still have one Doomfist. Neither the sword or Doom Fist are specilist weapons, so they give +1A for each other.


Therefore, you are Str10, have +1A, and get rerolls.

Lol, dem' exploitative word rulings.

Joe Mama wrote:Even with that cheese, still too expensive on an already costly model.

I do indeed agree with that. I cringe with just a teleporter and incinerator. I'd like to run 3 at some point just to see how it works along with draigowing. Its cool being the only marine army fielding monstrous creatures, I just wish they were a bit cheaper.

A gunboat version is REALLY good at killing gaunts that endlessly come out of... that thing that can spawn them, can't remember the name right now.

Even with that cheese, still too expensive on an already costly model.

So quick question, well one or two lol
Have we settled on a weapon for crusaders? swords? axes? lances? a mixture?

Secondly, whats the ruling on the daemonblade? im assuming the force weapon power makes it an unusual forceweapon at AP3, and the ignores armour rule is as it says, in effect AP2. What about the rest of the time? does it have an AP?

I'm going for axes on my crusaders so they are a threat to anything. They have the invulnerability save to strike last. Just as importantly, my crusaders are slightly converted Bretonnian Men-At-Arms so come with halberd axy type things anyway

I agree with Axes. Crusaders are there for their ++3, but a S4 AP2 hit is a nice bonus

Coteaz was excellent in 5ed, and 6ed just made him even better. How to make best use of him? Here are my thoughts when I have looked at constructing a core to my GK Coteaz/mixed henchmen-and-paly/termy/PA armies. I strive for synergy to maximise the effectiveness of my lists so here goes:

We need anti-flier. Henchmen in a Bastion will die horrible deaths when that huge target is blown up as the number of S6 hits is insane. So, that leaves the Aegis Defence Line (until Allied Flakk missiles become available). Coteaz has quite a fun shooting attack, but it isn't awesome, so he can man that quad gun. Having an assaulty force behind a Defence Line is not efficient, so go for a shooting force (this also capitalises on Coteaz's I've Been Expecting You). So give Coteaz Divination (Primaris power Prescience giving Coteaz AND UNIT REROLLS TO HIT) and some other power. Servitors are cheap so go for 3 of those (weapon to taste). Go for 2 Jokaeros for situational lascannons, multimeltas or heavy flamers (overwatch yeh!), plus maximum chance (can't find the mathhammer on this, but 2 is best) of a decent ingenuity roll(s). Fill out with 7 acolytes with stormbolters. Excluding Coteaz and the 100 point Aegis + quad gun, and assuming heavy bolter servitors, this comes to 163 pts. That's 363 pts all in.

The Aegis also gives 4+ cover to other units eg. Psyflemen, and is a good place for an objective.

2 units of 3 crusaders at 45 pts each is 90 pts for backfield objective holders: cheap as chips leaving the rest of your points able to forget objectives and focus fire on the best target.

So now you have an army of 453 pts that can hold 3 objectives, has 2 lascannons or 2 multimeltas or 2 heavy flamers plus 3 heavy bolters (upgradable to multimeltas or plasma cannons) + 2 autocannons (twin linked AND THEN rerollable fails) which have skyfire, + 14 stormbolter shots, ALL REROLLABLE TO HIT and perhaps with extra 12" range and/or Rending. This uses up the Fortification, HQ and 3 Troop slots.

That seems pretty solid to me at 1500 or 2000.

Sethorly wrote:So give Coteaz Sanctuary (hopefully getting 2 overwatches on assaulting units if they fail the first charge) and Divination (Primaris power Prescience giving Coteaz AND UNIT REROLLS TO HIT). Servitors are cheap so go for 3 of those (weapon to taste).

Pretty sure you use codex powers OR rulebook powers. You can't mix and match.

@Sethorly - That's sounding very nasty! But I don't think your tech marine can bolster an aegis defence line either because it's a bought fortification...

Erm, I'm pretty sure you can mix and match where you have more than one Mastery level.....

And I'm also pretty sure the GK FAQ states that a Techmarine can indeed bolster the Aegis Defence Line. It's not loading up for some reason right now.

Ps. Hi Alf

It quite explicitly says you cannot bolster purchased terrain.

GW FAQ wrote:

Page 32 – Techmarines, Bolster Defences.
Replace this entry with the following:

“Bolster Defences: After deployment, but before Scout
redeployments and Infiltrate deployments, nominate one piece
of terrain in your deployment zone (this may not be one you
have purchased as part of your army). The terrain piece’s cover
save is increased by one for the duration of the game (to a
maximum of 3+). For example, a ruin (4+ cover save) would
instead offer a 3+ cover save. A piece of terrain can only be
bolstered once”.

Sethorly wrote:Erm, I'm pretty sure you can mix and match where you have more than one Mastery level.....

I don't have the book here, but I could have sworn it was one or the other regardless of mastery level.

Ah, I managed to dl the FAQ. Yes you're both right I've been reading too many dodgy You Make Da Call threads

Techmarines can't bolster Aegis and Coteaz must either choose codex powers or 6ed powers.

Thank you for feedback, I'll change the post.

I still think that's a fantastic amount of firepower and utility for under 500 pts.

You can either have your codex powers or rulebook discipline powers.

You can mix and match disciplines, but you can't have a Codex power and a Discipline power(unless you can't get rid of the power, like Hammerhand which all GKs have in addition to other powers)

One idea to extend that Aegis line with backfield crusaders would be to add a couple of Psyflemen behind the Aegis barrier, then give the 3 troops chimeras. 3 units of 5 terminators could hop into the chimeras on the first turn and go 18" flat out, taking them within 6" of the enemy deployment zone.

Coteaz manning a Quad Gun, you sir are ingenious. Normal Quad Guns can only make one out-of-sequence firing action using the Interceptor rule, and then CANNOT fire in their own firing phase because of that. Coteaz says "screw you, Interceptor Rule" and fires it ANYWAY.

That being said, 4++ is still pretty nice to stick standard GKs (maybe Purgation squads or Dreadnoughts) behind, while the rest of your henchmen can sit in bolstered terrain and get a 3++...

Enigwolf wrote:Coteaz manning a Quad Gun, you sir are ingenious. Normal Quad Guns can only make one out-of-sequence firing action using the Interceptor rule, and then CANNOT fire in their own firing phase because of that. Coteaz says "screw you, Interceptor Rule" and fires it ANYWAY.

That being said, 4++ is still pretty nice to stick standard GKs (maybe Purgation squads or Dreadnoughts) behind, while the rest of your henchmen can sit in bolstered terrain and get a 3++...

hrm... interesting. I don't quite see this working as intended though as cotez's special rule says that a unit that arrives from reserve within 12' of him...

technically that flier arrived from reserve at the enemy's board edge. It also has to move within 12' of cotez (which alot of fliers probably won't need to be as most of their weapons are 24' to 36'). You don't trigger I've been expecting you by moving within cotez unfortunately. I think you're stuck with just the interceptor rule in most situations as you cannot place your quad gun in the enemy's deployment zone.

Also, you are not allowed to place an objective inside fortifications. Per page 121 though as far as I see it, the Aegis line is just a set of blocks and unless you are placing them on top of the actual gun or blocks you should be fine with it just slightly away.

There's another thread debating whether Coteaz's power is valid if the unit ends its arrival move within 12" of him, and I don't think that there was any resolution to that. Most flyers I play against tend to arrive pretty close to him, given that most Zoom in at minimum 18". Necrons, GK's biggest flyer threat, have to come pretty close to fire their Heat Rays too.

What is deflating is the realisation that a single quad gun isn't going to be enough against a flier list. I think this game is going to be horribly unbalanced until more numerous Skyfire becomes available.

Has anyone else noted that the purifier spammers appear to have abandoned GK? They're probably in the Necron thread hehehe.

@Enigwolf - thank you for calling me ingenious, but if that rule does apply to models coming in from reserve and ending up within 12" (as well as arriving within 12") then that outcome was entirely accidental

Would something like this work? It's a 1500 list.

Coteaz
3 crusaders
3 crusaders
3 crusaders
2 crusaders, daemonhost
3 chimeras
2*10 Paladins with 4 psycannons (combat squadded)

1 unit of paladins deepstrikes somewhere fairly clear.
3 units of paladins get into chimeras and either cruise or go flat out.

20 Paladins at 1500 is pretty neat, they are not footslogging, they have limited deepstrike risk, shooting at the 4 very durable scoring units involves not shooting at the paladins. A goer? Or gak?

Has anyone else noted that the purifier spammers appear to have abandoned GK? They're probably in the Necron thread hehehe.

Really? Purifier spam is still viable. Rhinos can move faster. The only nerf I see are the force weapons which are now AP 3.

wuestenfux wrote:

Has anyone else noted that the purifier spammers appear to have abandoned GK? They're probably in the Necron thread hehehe.

Really? Purifier spam is still viable. Rhinos can move faster. The only nerf I see are the force weapons which are now AP 3.

They are not nerfed no, but now that cleansing flame isnt gamebreaking and they cant ignore armour completely, "those" kind of gamers have moved to the next army at the top of the pile. Purifier+dreadnought/razorback spam was GKs main multiporpose OP build, now its not so OP as it was they dont want to know

doc1234 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Has anyone else noted that the purifier spammers appear to have abandoned GK? They're probably in the Necron thread hehehe.

Really? Purifier spam is still viable. Rhinos can move faster. The only nerf I see are the force weapons which are now AP 3.

They are not nerfed no, but now that cleansing flame isnt gamebreaking and they cant ignore armour completely, "those" kind of gamers have moved to the next army at the top of the pile. Purifier+dreadnought/razorback spam was GKs main multiporpose OP build, now its not so OP as it was they dont want to know

Don't worry I'm still here

I just think we need to adapt a little bit, find some new units to complement are army, and actually use tactics instead of point and click

tuiman wrote:

doc1234 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Has anyone else noted that the purifier spammers appear to have abandoned GK? They're probably in the Necron thread hehehe.

Really? Purifier spam is still viable. Rhinos can move faster. The only nerf I see are the force weapons which are now AP 3.

They are not nerfed no, but now that cleansing flame isnt gamebreaking and they cant ignore armour completely, "those" kind of gamers have moved to the next army at the top of the pile. Purifier+dreadnought/razorback spam was GKs main multiporpose OP build, now its not so OP as it was they dont want to know

Don't worry I'm still here

I just think we need to adapt a little bit, find some new units to complement are army, and actually use tactics instead of point and click

This is a good attitude.

Thanks wuestenfux

I started grey knights because I loved the models, and I'm sticking by that, the fact that they were awesome in 5th was a bonus.

I am determined to carry on play testing, find out new combos and tricks, I think we can still compete well, we just need to be on our game now, its not going to be easy, but I reckon, more fun because of it. I find it just as part of the hobby as painting and modeling, I try to stay away from net lists if I can.

I just hope that TO's realize this, for comp score tournaments, so we don't get put up against Neron flyer heavy lists

I think the thing we have to remember is yes, we have taken a nurf, but how many armies really gained from 6th edition, if you look every army has been effected one way of another. Early days, so lets keep the good ideas flowing and help our fellow grey knight players out.

You're right, and when the new Chaos codex drops here shortly more people will play Chaos again and that will make our lives easier with the preferred enemy rules.

There has to be a great way to win with a pure GK army and no I don't mean a pure Paladin Army, too few models imho. But I'm not a fan of henchmen. Idk why. Some of them are super cool but I just don't want them in my army list So that's why I'm trying to figure out, purifiers or not, there has to be a good way to win without henchmen. I'm just a rather puritanical inquisitor I guess. Or at the very least, very stubborn.

I totally understand where you are coming from Gatekeeper in regards to henchman, maybe its the aesthetic but something about it puts me off putting them in my army.

Problem is, I think 6th is very troops orientated when it comes to holding objectives, so I think I am going to have to resort to using coteaz and a few groups of henchman for cheap objective sitters, as well as plasma/melta.

I would prefer to have an all knight army though, maybe try a few strike squads in rhinos for your objective holding.

Well, my current force is based on Purifiers and Terminators.

Now I'll shift a bit to GKSS and I'll look for some allies. Here IG comes to my mind which provide decent long-range fire support with Hydras and LRBT's.

Thoughts about allies?

tuiman wrote:Problem is, I think 6th is very troops orientated when it comes to holding objectives, so I think I am going to have to resort to using coteaz and a few groups of henchman for cheap objective sitters

This is exactly the reason I've suggested that Coteaz and small crusader units form a good core. It used to be that you could design an army to Table your opponent and just pick up the objectives along the way. Now those days are gone if you look at the Missions. There will often be 4 or more objectives and they will be spread out all over the board. Trouble with using Terminators or Strike squads for holding these objectives is that a sizeable proportion of your army (in points value) will be thinly spread across the board rather than focussed on the weakest point of the opponent's army (or focussed on killing that part of the opponent's army they're best at killing). Thus you need durable objective holding Troops whose cost is as small as possible to allow for the majority of your points to be focussed on killing. The answer I've come up with is Coteaz with units of 3 Crusaders.

And then given that you have Coteaz, it made sense to me to take advantage of the awesome Prescience to buff the weakness of henchmen, their poor BS of 3, to a rerollable BS3 which has a better chance of landing a shot than BS4. Now we can use all those lovely cheapish Heavy Weapons and stormbolters without expecting poor results. If you don't want a shooty henchman unit though, then Coteaz/Crusaders is still a good core imho to take on the new missions. And as I suggested above, an example of the benefit of this low costing core is being able to take 20 Paladins with transports at 1500 pts, but this is just an example.

Here's the question then. Can anyone think of a better way of securing those objectives than the crusaders? Am I just barking up the wrong tree?

Re Allies - I think a competitive list at the moment would have to take IG for the Hydras wouldn't it?

People seem to underestimate the other inquisitors than coteaz, and the none-troops slot henchmen, as a retinue for the inquisitor. Or am i just a bit behind with my ways?

doc1234 wrote:People seem to underestimate the other inquisitors than coteaz, and the none-troops slot henchmen, as a retinue for the inquisitor. Or am i just a bit behind with my ways?

Xeno inquisitor with rad and psych grenades is a popular choice. Stick him in a unit of gk or dca and they'll wreck face

kenshin620 wrote:

doc1234 wrote:People seem to underestimate the other inquisitors than coteaz, and the none-troops slot henchmen, as a retinue for the inquisitor. Or am i just a bit behind with my ways?

Xeno inquisitor with rad and psych grenades is a popular choice. Stick him in a unit of gk or dca and they'll wreck face

Aye, is pretty much the only "generic" inquisitor build i ever see except mine :( love my daemonblade, but for all their crazy and mixed wargear, all we see? OX grenades.