Article on why women don't play 40k

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**Davespil**

No I insinuated that they wouldn't be intimidated by affluent white guys. Melissia brought up dating.

**Amaya**

ASFAIK a 'normal' white guy is pretty unthreatening.

**Melissia**

Davespil wrote:
No I insinuated that they wouldn't be intimidated by affluent white guys.

Why?

**HiveFleetPlastic**

Furyou Miko wrote:
OK, so here's something I find curious and interesting - and I'm guilty of doing it myself.

There are at least three or four women posting on this thread. So why do we still refer to women playing in the hobby as "they" or "them"?

Surely, we should be saying "we" or "us"?

Are we subconsciously disassociating ourselves from our femininity to better fit in with the group? Or are we at the point of genuinely considering ourselves a different 'kind' of female to the ones who don't play?

I think it's just academic language. Most of the men in the thread are doing the same thing, except with "men" instead. It's just convention. Maybe it's a bad one in that it makes the topic a bit more impersonal, but there it is.

**Amaya**

I'd just like to know who is honestly going to be intimidated by a geeky, skinny, otherwise normal looking white guy.

**Davespil**

quote=Amaya 514451 5403277 a440d1ca48e7044d494ac3f4656df52d.png]Brony hate has a lot more to do with the excessive vocality of bronies and the oversaturation of MLP images and fan art everywhere. The fact several bronies at conventions have admitted on video to clopping to rule 34 MLP content doesn't help matters at all. They're basically viewed as an offshoot of the furry subculture which is also painted as perverse due to yiffers.

**HiveFleetPlastic**

Amaya wrote:
I'd just like to know who is honestly going to be intimidated by a geeky, skinny, otherwise normal looking white guy.

Someone who looks into the store, sees only people matching that description, and gets the overwhelming vibe of "I don't belong here."

**Melissia**

Amaya wrote:
I'd just like to know who is honestly going to be intimidated by a geeky, skinny, otherwise normal looking white guy.

Try a dozen of them, some of them (not all) staring at you and making you feel uncomfortable.

**Amaya**

HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
Amaya wrote:
I'd just like to know who is honestly going to be intimidated by a geeky, skinny, otherwise normal looking white guy.

Someone who looks into the store, sees only people matching that description, and gets the overwhelming vibe of "I don't belong here."

I've never seen a store like that, but San Antonio is a fairly diverse city. I think whites are actually a minority here.

It just seems really odd to me, it's like if I were to go to a basketball court and leave because 3/4 guys out there are black. Who cares, we all have a similar interest.

Melissia wrote:
Amaya wrote:
I'd just like to know who is honestly going to be intimidated by a geeky, skinny, otherwise normal looking white guy.
Try a dozen of them, some of them (not all) staring at you and making you feel uncomfortable.

You have to understand that they are probably not used to seeing nonclones.

**DemetriDominov**

Amaya wrote:
Brony hate has a lot more to do with the excessive vocality of bronies and the oversaturation of MLP images and fan art everywhere. The fact several bronies at conventions have admitted on video to clopping to rule 34 MLP content doesn't help matters at all. They're basically viewed as an offshoot of the furry subculture which is also painted as perverse due to yiffers.

Right, so clearly that has too much jargon for me to understand, but the basic point TheCaptain was making can also be applied to things that guys "shouldn't do", like:

Dancing (makes you gay)
Wearing makeup (makes you weird at the very least)
Fashion Modeling (makes you gay)

Painting or modeling (makes you a nerd or a geek)
Not liking the outdoors (makes you a homebody)
Liking cartoons (Makes you more childish and less like a man)

Not liking beer.

Not liking sports.

Not liking the military.

Not trying to build muscle instead of just staying healthy - (even I'm vain in this area).

Not wanting to be a scientist, politician, businessman/CEO, police officer, firefighter, engineer, mathematician, chef, a soldier, pilot, doctor, lawyer, musician/rockstar (old stereotype), construction worker, miner, artist, or astronaut but would rather be:

A teacher, social worker, stay at home dad, an advocate, a gardener, secretary, telemarketer, pole dancer, pornstar, prostitute, day care facilitator/nanny, model, PR rep, seamstress, or a nurse.

Point is there's a lot of stereotypes out there, and all of them are connected with the idea that there is a role defined by society that we must obtain and fill based on our socioeconomic status and gender. It isn't healthy to think this way, because human's may like structure in their life, but freedom has always has been, still is, and always will be a basic need to have a holistically healthy life. Shackling one's self to a "role" that defines you for the rest of your life rather than living your life to define who you as you wish to be is the fastest way to bring about pain and suffering onto yourself.

**Melissia**

You have to understand some people, male or female of any race, often want to avoid causing trouble and don't want to go where they don't feel they belong.

Social awkwardness isn't a male trait.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to repost what I messed up before....

Davespil wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davespil wrote:
I got one for you guys: Men and women have different interests.
The overwhelming majority of which are societally enforced, rather than biological.

Breaking down the social barriers requires people to keep an open mind instead of just saying "go away, this isn't your thing woman". Which I know that wasn't your intent, but that can be the actual effect regardless of intent, if you aren't careful in how you word yourself.

What social barrier must be broken down here?

**Amaya**

DemetriDominov wrote:
Amaya wrote:
Brony hate has a lot more to do with the excessive vocality of bronies and the oversaturation of MLP images and fan art everywhere. The fact several bronies at conventions have admitted on video to clopping to rule 34 MLP content doesn't help matters at all. They're basically viewed as an offshoot of the furry subculture which is also painted as perverse due to yiffers.

Right, so clearly that has too much jargon for me to understand, but the basic point he was making can also be applied to things that guys "shouldn't do", like:

Bronies are teenage to adult male fans of a children's animated show called My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. The show was created by Lauren Faust who has a large fanbase from her previous work. Bronies REALLY like the show. They are essentially extremely intense Trekkies. They talk about it constantly, make memes of in show animations and characters, and frequently use characters from the show as avatars on forums. They often spread this content into places where it is uninvited and considered obtrusive. Certain members of the community have admitted to masturbating of fan made pornography of the show.

The combined 'loudness' of the community and 'perverts' within it are IMO the primary causes behind the dislike of Bronies, not that they like a show that is ostenibly for young girls.

**Monster Rain**

Amaya has nailed it.

Liking MLP is one thing, being a brony is quite another. The "victim of gender norms" is a repetitive trope from them as well.

**Davespil**

DemetriDominov wrote:
Amaya wrote:
Brony hate has a lot more to do with the excessive vocality of bronies and the oversaturation of MLP images and fan art everywhere. The fact several bronies at conventions have admitted on video to clopping to rule 34 MLP content doesn't help matters at all. They're basically viewed as an offshoot of the furry subculture which is also painted as perverse due to yiffers.

Right, so clearly that has too much jargon for me to understand, but the basic point TheCaptain was making can also be applied to things that guys "shouldn't do", like:

Dancing (makes you gay)
Wearing makeup (makes you weird at the very least)
Fashion Modeling (makes you gay)

Painting or modeling (makes you a nerd or a geek)
Not liking the outdoors (makes you a homebody)
Liking cartoons (Makes you more childish and less like a man)

Not liking beer.

Not liking sports.

Not liking the military.

Not trying to build muscle instead of just staying healthy - (even I'm vain in this area).

Not wanting to be a scientist, politician, businessman/CEO, police officer, firefighter, engineer, mathematician, chef, a soldier, pilot, doctor, lawyer, musician/rockstar (old stereotype), construction worker, miner, artist, or astronaut but would rather be:

A teacher, social worker, stay at home dad, an advocate, a gardener, secretary, telemarketer, pole dancer, pornstar, prostitute, day care facilitator/nanny, model, PR rep, seamstress, or a nurse.

Point is there's a lot of stereotypes out there, and all of them are connected with the idea that there is a role defined by society that we must obtain and fill based on our socioeconomic status and gender. It isn't healthy to think this way, because human's may like structure in their life, but freedom has always has been, still is, and always will be a basic need to have a holistically healthy life. Shackling one's self to a "role" that defines you for the rest of your life rather than living your life to define who you as you wish to be is the fastest way to bring about pain and suffering onto yourself.

You forgot male cheerleaders. Also, you need to build some muscle to stay healthy. Without it you are just skinny which is not healthy.

**Amaya**

There is a big difference between building muscle and developing your athleticism, but that is not a discussion for this thread.

**Melissia**

Yeah, don't get Amaya started on musclebuilding, we may not be strong enough* to get him to stop

*hides from the pun reactions

**DemetriDominov**

Your text is fine Melissa. Just saying.

**Davespil**

Athleticism requires muscle.

I'd use any excuse to get out of work so if I could get paid leave to take care of my child I'm all for it. I agree with the links you provided. None have anything to do with the current topic unfortunately.

**Amaya**

Athleticism requires the development of only muscle that will improve athleticism.

"Muscle building" implies a focus only the development of muscular mass for appearance.

These are two very different things.

**TheCaptain**

Amaya wrote:
Athleticism requires the development of only muscle that will improve athleticism.

"Muscle building" implies a focus only the development of muscular mass for appearance.

These are two very different things.

I agree, getting shredded is one thing, but getting yolked is 99% for show.

**Psienesis**

Davespil wrote:
Athleticism requires muscle.

I'd use any excuse to get out of work so if I could get paid leave to take care of my child I'm all for it. I agree with the links you provided. None have anything to do with the current topic unfortunately.

If you qualify for FMLA, you can take it. It's not restricted to women-only.

**Davespil**

Then we agree that athleticism requires muscle, good.

**Furyou Miko**

It requires muscle, but it doesn't require brawniness. You can have muscle without being bulked up.

I'm physically quite strong because of various things I don't want to disclose. I'm not 'ripped' in any sense of the word - in fact, aside from having good muscle tone, I'm also overweight (and not in an "I'm not anorexic" way), have a poor cardiovascular recovery time and can't run more than fifty metres without having to switch to walking.

For a less personal anecdote, go look at professional archers. They're athletes. They also tend to be quite rotund.

**motyak**

Furyou Miko wrote:
in fact, aside from having good muscle tone, I'm also overweight

Is that in the sense of BMI? Because that thing is a joke...

I quite like how this topic has touched on social norms and what not, makes me feel better about reading it during a lecture on that same topic...

I have to come down on Captain, Mel, etc's side of the discussion.

**Furyou Miko**

In the sense that I have a noticeable belly and people avoid the topic of bodyweight around me. :p

Although yes, according to BMI I am overweight. Then again, so is my friend who is a rake with ridiculously massive bones - as in you can count his ribs.

**Amaya**

Furyou Miko wrote:
In the sense that I have a noticeable belly and people avoid the topic of bodyweight around me. :p

Do people just randomly discuss bodyweight now? I didn't think that was a subject for friendly conversation unless someone brought up how they were trying to gain or lose weight.

**Melissia**

Depends on the country . People in/from Japan will call you fat to your face (even if you aren't). Elsewhere, I'm not sure about.

**motyak**

Melissia wrote:
Depends on the country . People in/from Japan will call you fat to your face (even if you aren't). Elsewhere, I'm not sure about.

Note to self, don't move to Japan, as awesome as the food is.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Amaya wrote:
ASFAIK a 'normal' white guy is pretty unthreatening.

That depends. Society tends to extend a lot of privilege to middle and upper class white guys. Courts also tend to be more lenient on them. From the perspective of a likely target of the societal leverage they can bring to bear, I imagine they can be quite intimidating.

Also, describe the average serial killer (or stalker, or date rapist for that matter) for me in terms of class, race and gender, please.

**Melissia**

Also, drunk fraternity boys. Usually white, usually average in appearance, and very, very dangerous to be around.