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Yeah, there are a lot of ways to get by without markerlights in the new codex.

Sure, they are still an awesome force multiplier, but you can use various upgrades to twin-link, ignore cover, just add more shots... that kind of stuff

Really the ONLY thing im super upset about( and by super i mean not really at all) is the fact that targeting arrays are gone(used em on my stealth suits primarily, sometimes on an broadside) and the fact that seeker missiles got fethed over completely fluff and play wise......oh well.....its an impossibility for a perfect codex to come out lol

Lovely Sniper Drones got an upgrade. It's no longer rail rifle that they carry, its the longhsot pulse rifle. This one actually has sniper on it finally.

Seeker missiles seem better now though.
I mean, they are cheaper, ignore cover... It's just possible for a vehicle to fire them itself if it really needs to.

Also, anyone think it would be a good idea for me to start a new thread for discussion now that the codex is actually out? Instead of continuing here where people have to wade through several pages of mostly speculation and rumors.

 Superscope wrote:

Codex:Markerlights.

"25% of your point spent on markerlights" mono-build codex.

Exactly. Instead of a proper 6th edition update we have Codex:Markerlights.

Read the book head to toe before you come to a conclusion. There is SO MUCH you can do with this fine codex. Sure we lost some of the cheese some tau players have grown fat off, but true tau players adapt with the new weapons and technology we have been given. As a 8+ year Tau vet, perhaps I can open your eyes to some wise advice?

Commander + Gun Drone Squadron + Drone controller.

All of a sudden, that drone squadron is now firing at BS5 (twin-linked if the drones are kept standard). Want to be more cheesy? Change the drones to marker drones for free. Now you have a squad of BS5 markerlights.. that are relentless.. and have jet-pack moves with better armor.

Riptide + Early Warning Override + ion Accelerator

For it's price, you don't even need to turn on the nova reactor... now you can remove full squads of terminators if they dare try to deep strike on the board.

Farsight + 7 Battlesuit Bodyguard + Wargear of your choice

Need I say more? Put a few target locks around the squads with Twin-Linked Fusion blasters and watch IG tank armies cry.

Ethereal (Using fire invocation) + Cadre Fireblade

All this combined... you fire 4 shots within 15"!! 4x13 shots = 52 shots.. from a single fire warrior squad.
At BS3 on average half will hit (26). Against T4, 66% of that will wound (17). Against T3, even more.

Longstrike

A upgrade that gives BS5 AND tank hunter. Come on now! You have the best long range tank killer in the game with this guy.

Peregrine just likes to piss in everybody's cereal. I wouldn't pay too much attention to his cries.
On topic, my roomie is looking at getting this codex, and getting back into 40k with it. I'll admit, it's looking pretty good so far.

Got the codex at midnight from my FLGS... along with (at least) 1 pack of everything new + 2 FW boxes. Riptide looks pretty damn cool all modeled up and ready to go... I built a list for him that I'm gonna use today or tomorrow. I'll tell you how it goes.


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I've put the Ion Acc. and the EWO on him, with two plasma rifles for extra AP 2 goodness. Mostly TEQ armies at the shop, I shall drink up those sweet, armored tears.

 Superscope wrote:

Read the book head to toe before you come to a conclusion. There is SO MUCH you can do with this fine codex. Sure we lost some of the cheese some tau players have grown fat off, but true tau players adapt with the new weapons and technology we have been given. As a 8+ year Tau vet, perhaps I can open your eyes to some wise advice?

Commander + Gun Drone Squadron + Drone controller.

All of a sudden, that drone squadron is now firing at BS5 (twin-linked if the drones are kept standard). Want to be more cheesy? Change the drones to marker drones for free. Now you have a squad of BS5 markerlights.. that are relentless.. and have jet-pack moves with better armor.

Riptide + Early Warning Override + ion Accelerator

For it's price, you don't even need to turn on the nova reactor... now you can remove full squads of terminators if they dare try to deep strike on the board.

Farsight + 7 Battlesuit Bodyguard + Wargear of your choice

Need I say more? Put a few target locks around the squads with Twin-Linked Fusion blasters and watch IG tank armies cry.

Ethereal (Using fire invocation) + Cadre Fireblade

All this combined... you fire 4 shots within 15"!! 4x13 shots = 52 shots.. from a single fire warrior squad.
At BS3 on average half will hit (26). Against T4, 66% of that will wound (17). Against T3, even more.

Longstrike

A upgrade that gives BS5 AND tank hunter. Come on now! You have the best long range tank killer in the game with this guy.

Hey, did you notice there is SO MUCH you can do with this codex...and then your "example list" did not include any vehicles. Because vehicles suck. I started playing Tau because of their cool tanks, now their tanks suck, it's goodbye Tau from me.

But what about Longstrike?? See, Space Marines have exact similar character. His name is Chronus. You may not have heard of him, because nobody ever includes him in the Army lists - because he sucks.

Backfire wrote:

But what about Longstrike?? See, Space Marines have exact similar character. His name is Chronus. You may not have heard of him, because nobody ever includes him in the Army lists - because he sucks.

He upgrades a BS4 tank (that's probably twin-linked) to BS5. That's it. He doesn't add any special rules, unlike Longstrike. If anything, you should compare him to Pask, who people DO take.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Backfire wrote:

But what about Longstrike?? See, Space Marines have exact similar character. His name is Chronus. You may not have heard of him, because nobody ever includes him in the Army lists - because he sucks.

He upgrades a BS4 tank (that's probably twin-linked) to BS5. That's it. He doesn't add any special rules, unlike Longstrike. If anything, you should compare him to Pask, who people DO take.

Chronus ignores stunned/shaken (which was pretty big deal in 5th ed, not so much anymore) and if his tank dies, he can continue fighting without it.

And it's not like Pask is really that popular either. The fact that people grasp on upgrade character to make ONE of our tanks useful, tells volumes about how good they are. Ie. they suck. Nobody who is posting new Tau lists, or pondering their tactics, includes meaningful amount of vehicles in their list.

Tau tanks suck. There is no excuse, no rationalization, no nothing to get around that fact.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Peregrine just likes to piss in everybody's cereal. I wouldn't pay too much attention to his cries.

Or 90% of the "tactics" posted so far are point-wasting nonsense that is less effective than spamming markerlights and BS 5 no-cover guns (that are not pulse rifles).

Hey, did you notice there is SO MUCH you can do with this codex...and then your "example list" did not include any vehicles. Because vehicles suck. I started playing Tau because of their cool tanks, now their tanks suck, it's goodbye Tau from me.

This is actually a fair point. I think our Crisis Suits actually got a lot of love in this codex, and the Riptide looks like it will be terrifying on the tabletop. If you are a fan of Tau primarily because of the battlesuits, I think you will like this codex. But if you are looking for the other elements of the codex to shine, such as the skimmer tanks, the fliers or even the basic troopers, I think you will be sorely disappointed. It is a shame really, the whole of this codex needed love, not just the markerlights and the battlesuits.

Just finished the tau codex (havent played the new rules yet )

they are good better than before and cheaper and the ability for everything to help each other out in over watch makes them good

they will be a very powerful army to play against
and can almost see apoint of includeing everything in the codex so all in all tau players should be very happy indeed but there will be always whiney b*tchs out there

Still feel that tau should have got alot more units than they did but thats just a personal gripe

 Peregrine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Peregrine just likes to piss in everybody's cereal. I wouldn't pay too much attention to his cries.

Or 90% of the "tactics" posted so far are point-wasting nonsense that is less effective than spamming markerlights and BS 5 no-cover guns (that are not pulse rifles).

Just got the codex myself from my LFGS. I wanted to believe in all of the hype but after reading the codex and doing the number crunching to me it comes down to this.

If you like playing gun lines and behind the ADL then this codex is for you. If you like Tau as Allies then this codex is for you. I think they will make excellent allies in your army. If you like good casual games then this is the codex for you. I've got most of the models needed but the synergy of this codex is rather Meh to me.

I was disappointed with the space pope and how it can be sniped rather easy. The increase in cost in Drones. Pathfinders at +5 SV??? Piranha's are eh now like every 2 pointed hull vehicle. As for the rest of the vehicles? Heh again. I was disappointed with Aun'shi as the fluff was rather weak and so are his defenses. The Aun'shi of old was a effective HQ.

The whole codex looks rather rushed as well in concept design. Not enough new units and I believe its greatest failure in the codex the absence of human auxiliary troops. I Do not understand why GW makes it hard on itself to make easy money with people that would pay lots money for conversion kits to augment their IG models into Tau units. And using the Ally matrix is not the same as being part of the Tau Empire and try to use it as an excuse for this flaw. This is the usual failure in corporate thinking and it shows in its results.

Even with those negative comments, to me the Tau Codex a far better book than the most recent Daemon codex. As far as the talk of the Riptide and Crisis suits? Again I'm not going to be overly Awed by them. I own a 5000 point Tau army since 2003. Maybe for fun I'll take out my Tau gun line army has fun with this codex not caring if it is as competitive as it could have been.

I rated it as a 3 out of 5 Stars. The positives do out weigh its shortcomings and yes I did buy the book. But in my eyes it could have been so much better.

It will be Awesome in many people's eyes until the next codex will come out, which will be out, oh in a couple of months.

Backfire wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Backfire wrote:

But what about Longstrike?? See, Space Marines have exact similar character. His name is Chronus. You may not have heard of him, because nobody ever includes him in the Army lists - because he sucks.

He upgrades a BS4 tank (that's probably twin-linked) to BS5. That's it. He doesn't add any special rules, unlike Longstrike. If anything, you should compare him to Pask, who people DO take.

Chronus ignores stunned/shaken (which was pretty big deal in 5th ed, not so much anymore) and if his tank dies, he can continue fighting without it.

And it's not like Pask is really that popular either. The fact that people grasp on upgrade character to make ONE of our tanks useful, tells volumes about how good they are. Ie. they suck. Nobody who is posting new Tau lists, or pondering their tactics, includes meaningful amount of vehicles in their list.

Tau tanks suck. There is no excuse, no rationalization, no nothing to get around that fact.

I strongly disagree. I think the Hammerhead Gunship is currently the best tank in the game, Longstrike or no Longstrike. It has good armor (bolstered further by Jink and potentially a Disruption Pod), great weapons, and a cheap points cost. What's not to like?

 Kingsley wrote:
I strongly disagree. I think the Hammerhead Gunship is currently the best tank in the game, Longstrike or no Longstrike. It has good armor (bolstered further by Jink and potentially a Disruption Pod), great weapons, and a cheap points cost. What's not to like?

The fact that it's in an army with no other good tanks (other than maybe the Sky Ray, which takes up the same FOC slot), and therefore no target saturation. Put the Hammerhead in the IG codex and it's amazing, but it's mediocre at best in an army where it will be the only vehicle on the table and therefore the target of every anti-vehicle unit in your opponent's army.

Also, the fact that it can't move and shoot effectively anymore is a big drawback. It might be cheap enough to overcome that problem, but when you compare it to the old Hammerhead it's pretty disappointing.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
I strongly disagree. I think the Hammerhead Gunship is currently the best tank in the game, Longstrike or no Longstrike. It has good armor (bolstered further by Jink and potentially a Disruption Pod), great weapons, and a cheap points cost. What's not to like?

The fact that it's in an army with no other good tanks (other than maybe the Sky Ray, which takes up the same FOC slot), and therefore no target saturation. Put the Hammerhead in the IG codex and it's amazing, but it's mediocre at best in an army where it will be the only vehicle on the table and therefore the target of every anti-vehicle unit in your opponent's army.

"Tank or not tank" isn't the way target saturation works, except when dealing with Haywire weapons. Target saturation is based on specific weapon types. For instance, let's just take the basic Imperial heavy weapons and compare them to the basic Tau units (Fire Warriors, Riptides, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerhead):

Heavy bolters are very good against Fire Warriors, decent against Crisis Suits, bad against Broadsides and Riptides, and useless against Hammerheads.

Assault Cannons are extremely good against Fire Warriors, good against Crisis suits, and marginal against everything else, though they tend to be high-variance thanks to their reliance on Rending against heavier targets.

Autocannons are decent against Fire Warriors, decent against Crisis Suits, bad against Broadsides and Riptides, and bad against Hammerheads except when the Hammerhead is already seriously damaged.

Missile launchers are bad against Fire Warriors if they are spaced out, good against Fire Warriors if they are clumped together, very good against Crisis Suits, bad against Riptides, and marginal against Hammerheads and Broadsides.

Lascannons are bad against Fire Warriors but very good against everything else.


So the actual target saturation picture isn't "you shouldn't take Hammerheads," because there are no Imperial heavy weapons that are good against Hammerheads but not other things you'll already have in your army. The main message from a basic target saturation analysis is that you shouldn't take Crisis Suits, because missile launchers and autocannons are good against them and not very effective against everything else you'll likely be fielding. Now, does that mean Crisis Suits are bad? Think of your answer before checking the spoiler:



All in all, the premise that Hammerheads are bad because they are the only vehicles you're likely to field doesn't seem to match up with the way that target saturation actually works.

 Kingsley wrote:
For instance, let's just take the basic Imperial heavy weapons and compare them to the basic Tau units (Fire Warriors, Riptides, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerhead):

But that's an unrealistic situation. In reality you have to consider other unit types. For example, suicide melta is only worth it against expensive vehicles. And then you have to consider effectiveness: lascannons are overkill against crisis suits (since they cost more than other weapons that kill crisis suits just as well), they only become cost-effective when you have heavy vehicles on the table. Static infantry missile launchers are underwhelming against crisis suits compared to mobile plasma/fast assault units/etc. Plasma is great against all types of battlesuits but near-worthless against a Hammerhead. Anti-infantry weapons can kill everything but riptides effectively but can't even roll dice against Hammerheads. Etc.

So, the end result of this is that an army designed to kill fire warriors and battlesuits will look very different from one designed to kill vehicles, and by taking that single vehicle you're just rewarding your opponent for bringing anti-vehicle units. Yes, it's less of a difference than, say, taking a single Chimera in a foot IG army but it still hurts the Hammerhead's effectiveness.

 Kingsley wrote:

I strongly disagree. I think the Hammerhead Gunship is currently the best tank in the game, Longstrike or no Longstrike. It has good armor (bolstered further by Jink and potentially a Disruption Pod), great weapons, and a cheap points cost. What's not to like?

The fact it can't move & shoot, or split fire? Like it could, oh, IN THE OLD CODEX??

Hey, here's a crazy idea. What if somebody wrote a codex which would make new tactics viable, whilst still kept old staple units playable? No, that's just silly talk. You gotta nerf the old units and playstyles first. Never mind that all the changes fly straight at the face of estabilished fluff. After all, who reads it except old timers nobody cares about? Y'know, those people who kept buying the models and playing the army through dark times? They're not important!

Look at the lists people post at Army lists forum. Not one of them includes signifant amount of Tau tanks. Not one. Because Tau tanks suck.

Backfire wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

I strongly disagree. I think the Hammerhead Gunship is currently the best tank in the game, Longstrike or no Longstrike. It has good armor (bolstered further by Jink and potentially a Disruption Pod), great weapons, and a cheap points cost. What's not to like?

The fact it can't move & shoot, or split fire? Like it could, oh, IN THE OLD CODEX??

Hey, here's a crazy idea. What if somebody wrote a codex which would make new tactics viable, whilst still kept old staple units playable? No, that's just silly talk. You gotta nerf the old units and playstyles first. Never mind that all the changes fly straight at the face of estabilished fluff. After all, who reads it except old timers nobody cares about? Y'know, those people who kept buying the models and playing the army through dark times? They're not important!

Look at the lists people post at Army lists forum. Not one of them includes signifant amount of Tau tanks. Not one. Because Tau tanks suck.

I wish my Imperial Guard tanks could split fire...

The old Tau Codex was written 2 editions ago, you've got to expect that they have to change it quite substantially for the new edition. Not letting Tau tanks move and shoot is odd though... is that an actual rule they gave it, or is it something in the BRB that's causing that?

Backfire wrote:
Look at the lists people post at Army lists forum. Not one of them includes signifant amount of Tau tanks. Not one. Because Tau tanks suck.

This would be a valid counter argument if Dakkas Army List forum wasn't full of completely terrible lists. Not to mention, here's one with two Hammerheads. Here's one with a Hammerhead and a Devilfish. Oh look, two more Hammerheads.

 -Loki- wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Look at the lists people post at Army lists forum. Not one of them includes signifant amount of Tau tanks. Not one. Because Tau tanks suck.

This would be a valid counter argument if Dakkas Army List forum wasn't full of completely terrible lists. Not to mention, here's one with two Hammerheads. Here's one with a Hammerhead and a Devilfish. Oh look, two more Hammerheads.

...so your idea of "Mech" army is an army which contains massive total of TWO tanks for 1850 points?

Heck, even my Deathwing 1500 point footslogger army contains more vehicles than that. Better not tell them they're actually Mech army. They might get all confused about their identity.

Honestly, Tau aren't really a mech army. You could run 3 Hammerheads if you wanted to in the old Codex, and some Devilfishes if you were trying to go all-out, but those weren't exactly gun platforms.

Consider this as well - the book hasn't even been out for 24 hours. Lists cropping up right now mean dick-all. Remember the Necron Scarab Spam lists when showed up in the first month of that Codex's release? We'll have a better picture of a typical Tau list in the coming months. Try out your mechanized Tau and see how they fare.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The old Tau Codex was written 2 editions ago, you've got to expect that they have to change it quite substantially for the new edition.

I expect changes to things that need to be changed. I do not expect random nerfs and change for the sake of having change. That's incredibly stupid game design, to the point where "buy riptides" is the only plausible motivation. There was absolutely no reason other than model sales to remove BS 4 and multitrackers from Tau tanks.

Not letting Tau tanks move and shoot is odd though... is that an actual rule they gave it, or is it something in the BRB that's causing that?

Tau tanks used to be able to shoot like fast vehicles, so you could shoot on the move better than most armies. Now they're just standard vehicles with minimal ability to move and shoot effectively.


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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
You could run 3 Hammerheads if you wanted to in the old Codex, and some Devilfishes if you were trying to go all-out, but those weren't exactly gun platforms.

And Piranhas/TX-42s/Tetras, which are now nerfed to BS 3. Sure, you couldn't do full mech at high point levels like IG, but in smaller games mech Tau was a great option.

Try out your mechanized Tau and see how they fare.

What is there to try out? This isn't really a complicated subject here, losing BS 4 and the ability to move and shoot is just a straightforward nerf. There's no possible way that a mech Tau list will be better than one made with the old codex.

Hey, did you notice there is SO MUCH you can do with this codex...and then your "example list" did not include any vehicles. Because vehicles suck. I started playing Tau because of their cool tanks, now their tanks suck, it's goodbye Tau from me.

But what about Longstrike?? See, Space Marines have exact similar character. His name is Chronus. You may not have heard of him, because nobody ever includes him in the Army lists - because he sucks.

Example list? I never posted a 6th edition example list. Vehicles in the tau are cheap as hell for what they do now. They come with secondary weapons free of cost and their upgrades are rather cheap. (5pt sensor spines for example)

I know of Chronus. He's rather costly for what he does. Now Longstrike.... Longstrike is cheap as hell, and makes your tank BS5, tank hunter and the ability for him to overwatch.. with a tank!.

A BS5, tank hunting rail cannon... yea... Longstrike sucks because of that? Anything he touches with that rail cannon is DEAD, unless something saves the target (++ saves, faith to the emperor, etc)

 Superscope wrote:

Example list? I never posted a 6th edition example list. Vehicles in the tau are cheap as hell for what they do.

Sure, it's too bad all they do is suck. I didn't start playing Tau because "oh, their vehicles are so cheap.".

Worst Tau codex ever.

 Superscope wrote:
They come with secondary weapons free of cost

Because those secondary weapons will never be shooting at better than BS 1.

Anything he touches with that rail cannon is DEAD, unless something saves the target (++ saves, faith to the emperor, etc)

Or you just fail to roll a 4+ to explode a vehicle, or fail to penetrate armor (against AV 14 a hit only has about a 50% chance to penetrate). He's a good character, but given how bad Tau vehicles are in general I'm not sure I'd ever have a Hammerhead to upgrade.

"Will the New Tau Codex bring wanted changes, or will the Tau no longer be worth playing? "

LOL! Are we talking tot he Tau fanatics or the GW fanboys?

Anyone thinking of running only devilfishes and skyrays? Use fish of fury tactics with the new and improved suits, and have 2 seeker missiles on each devilfish, hold the skyray in the back and flank with the devilfish.

Another tactic is more farsightish. Move up to within 18 inches of an enemy unit with the devilfish and a squad of suits, unload your Firewarriors, fire, when the enemy moves up next turn, either move back and double tap, or get back in the devilfish if the enemy is too close, with the suits firing and falling back. You run up to the best engagement range with a mobile element, get your kicks, and annoy/frustrate the player with their inability to get at your mobile element while you use the time to set up a less mobile or more vulnerable kill unit. Before he knows it, the first devilfish has moved behind a building where he has to move his helldrake up to get autocannon shots at it, and it then gets a seeker missile in the rear armor. Or maybe he runs his terminators to far up to get at those fire warriors and takes a helios squad to the knee outside the range of his lascannon.

To elaborate on that last paragraph, you need 2 basic types of units, the first kind split into 2 or more groups to maximize flanking options, and the second to work as a way to prevent your first groups from being cut off by deep enemy thrusts and to maximize firepower, especially so that you can hit the enemy in the rear, due to the fact that they will probably be focusing more on your irritating mobile bases.

Ive tried this once, 1000 points of eldar tau with 5 terminators closeby owned by a team mate, we killed 10 terminators(one of which was a sorcerer), a hellfiend? 5 warptalons, about 2 full platoons of cultists, and about 15 marines, as well as the terminators tying up typhus and killing 5 terminators, while being attacked by a helldrake twice. I managed to make it to the other side of the board to the safety of deep struck terminators with my stealth suits and almost my devilfish, I would have gotten the crisis suits too, if I didn't forget to move for one turn!

 Zinderneuf wrote:
"Will the New Tau Codex bring wanted changes, or will the Tau no longer be worth playing? "

LOL! Are we talking tot he Tau fanatics or the GW fanboys?

Give them a month of game time and most of it will probably change.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
For instance, let's just take the basic Imperial heavy weapons and compare them to the basic Tau units (Fire Warriors, Riptides, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerhead):

But that's an unrealistic situation. In reality you have to consider other unit types. For example, suicide melta is only worth it against expensive vehicles.

How so? Dropping a hundred-point pod or DoA squad with two or three meltaguns seems pretty worth it if it kills 2 65+ point Broadside suits, or one 100+ point Commander (hey, Slay the Warlord!), or two 50+ point tooled up Crisis suits (forcing a morale check), etc.

 Peregrine wrote:
And then you have to consider effectiveness: lascannons are overkill against crisis suits (since they cost more than other weapons that kill crisis suits just as well), they only become cost-effective when you have heavy vehicles on the table.

I hear this a lot, but really it typically isn't that much of a factor. The difference between a missile launcher and a lascannon is 5-10 points on top of a carrier unit that costs far more than that. The efficiency difference, while prevalent, isn't enough to make the lascannon not worth it.

To put it another way, if a 90 point squad of 5 Marines and a lascannon fires one shot per turn for six turns, killing two Crisis suits, it has made its points back and then some. And since 90 point Marine squads with single lascannons are typically not "efficiency" units but rather "score an objective" units, this comparison starts to sound pretty good for the lascannons. A 140 point Predator with three lascannons, two of which are twin-linked, will be even nastier against suits-- I would expect 1-2 kills per turn under normal conditions-- and when suits are likely to cost 50+ points per, that starts looking pretty dang efficient! Hence, of course, JSJ.

 Peregrine wrote:
Static infantry missile launchers are underwhelming against crisis suits compared to mobile plasma/fast assault units/etc. Plasma is great against all types of battlesuits but near-worthless against a Hammerhead. Anti-infantry weapons can kill everything but riptides effectively but can't even roll dice against Hammerheads. Etc.

I don't consider plasma all that good against Crisis/Broadside battlesuits, to be honest. Melta seems substantially better thanks to Instant Death, though the plasma is nice to have against a Riptide.

 Peregrine wrote:
So, the end result of this is that an army designed to kill fire warriors and battlesuits will look very different from one designed to kill vehicles, and by taking that single vehicle you're just rewarding your opponent for bringing anti-vehicle units. Yes, it's less of a difference than, say, taking a single Chimera in a foot IG army but it still hurts the Hammerhead's effectiveness.

My point is that plausible anti-vehicles units will have targets anyway. To be honest, if I were focusing purely on target saturation, I'd take three Riptides and three Hammerheads.

Peregrine wrote:I expect changes to things that need to be changed. I do not expect random nerfs and change for the sake of having change. That's incredibly stupid game design, to the point where "buy riptides" is the only plausible motivation. There was absolutely no reason other than model sales to remove BS 4 and multitrackers from Tau tanks.

Except that Tau tanks, Devilfish aside, still have BS4? And vehicle multitrackers were silly and added to the homogeneity of the game. Every Xenos army except Orks had fast skimmers. Having non-fast skimmers is interesting and makes use of more of the design space. Units should be more unique.

Backfire wrote:Hey, here's a crazy idea. What if somebody wrote a codex which would make new tactics viable, whilst still kept old staple units playable? No, that's just silly talk. You gotta nerf the old units and playstyles first. Never mind that all the changes fly straight at the face of estabilished fluff. After all, who reads it except old timers nobody cares about? Y'know, those people who kept buying the models and playing the army through dark times? They're not important!

I don't know what to tell you, man. I'm assembling two Hammerheads as we speak. I think they are substantially more viable under the new rules.